[DE]Rebecca

Information On Damage 2.0

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Perhaps you guys might consider giving us more than three alternate loadouts for weapons/frames (A, B, and C).  The new system is going to create a desire, if not a need, for this since I'm expecting different loadouts will be more effective against different areas/bosses.

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So essentially, you want to make the game even more like an MMO? I guess if thats what you think is best then sure. I like the complexity to be sure. I just think its strange given this games a TPS. However the game has to evolve and frankly ive been sick of how samey everyones weapons and builds function. I will have to get used to it i guess. Im just conflicted.

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Yes, finally! A toxin element! I've been waiting for this to happen since I joined playing. 
I look forward to all this. It's going to give us more to do within the game and make it a fun challenge! 
I'm going to miss my OP moments with just my frozen damage Soma. I really hope the damage overall stays and the Puncture/Slash/Impact breaks it down separately. 

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Which is why armour has been split into multiple types. Flesh/Robotics/Heavyarmour/infested flesh. 

There won't be one true build that will kill everything faster than any other build. Impact damage will probably do little to the likes of infested flesh. Will slashing will do next to nothing to Heavy armour. You can't slap a specific damage type on to a weapon and have it kill everything like it used to.

There will likely be a build that kills everything equally at a decent pace, but not at the optimal pace. 

 

As I understand it the base trifecta is designed around this:

Shield damage

Armor Damage

Flesh Damage

 

On top of that, individual units will have specific vulnerabilities to particular elemental attacks; i.e. chargers are vulnerable to fire damage

 

There will be a build which has the right combination of mods to mitigate damage fall-off for the three attack types, probably via elemental damage to cover particular enemies.

 

So, you take a gun that does slashing damage primarily (like the flux rifle), add an AP mod and a cold mod for shield and armor.  Infested generically are vulnerable to 'flesh' damage from slashing weapons, grineer are generically vulnerable to AP damage, and Corpus to shield damage (hello cold damage bonus to shields).  Flavor to taste so long as you don't defeat the elemental damage bonus you're using to make up for the weapon's weakness, and it suddenly is good vs everything.

 

Much of this depends on answers to questions I asked much earlier, like how current mods are effected in this new paradigm and if new mods will be introduced to mirror current mods bonus damage, like a slashing damage mod to mirror the armor piercing mods.

 

This of course neglects that some will build to maximize damage to one particular faction and then fight that faction almost exclusively.  So unless the factions vary greatly between units as to what sort of damage is best, you're going to see optimal builds for each faction and players picking that faction to fight against all the time (probably infested because of the lack of range and use of cover mechanics).

 

And why?  Because you can't get any organization between pubbies and clannies just want to play.  So they're going to go for a generic fit that's good for everything, though perhaps not the best possible for that exact situation, and leave it alone, all so they don't have to constantly fiddle about with the mods and weapons.  And can you blame them/us?  I want to play the game, not spend 30 minutes maximizing my build for my expected enemy in a mission to lay for 2 minutes while blasting through everything at top speed.

 

I do expect you might see some very optimized builds for things like defense and survival runs at the top end, but those will be outliers rather than common place.

 

But I dig change though; I'm nothing if not highly adaptable, and unlike the poor slob of a newbie who won't have the mods to make up for the now harder enemies, I've got almost everything I'd need.

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I'm curious how all of this will work with weapons that have an element damage with them by default,  And then what would happen if you used either a combined element or if you have multiple mods of the same type. 

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So what happens if you want Blast and Magnetic damage together? Would you make the first combination then add the next or what would happen? Since it's 3 mods and cold is used in both? Hope this can be answered as I'm super pumped to be blowing waves of enemies limb from limb in the name of all that is good wholesome family fun. 

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First, I'd like to ask, does this mean puncture will no longer mean 'Bullets go through enemies'? Because if it is, and there's nothing else in the game that does that, we're going to have a massive problem. [Also sorry for not reading all 30 some pages of this thread, incase this was answered]

 

And second...'Level 1 enemies are still the easiest, but the difficulty of a Level 40 enemy in Damage 2.0 will be comparable to a Level 100 enemy in Damage 1.0.'

 

Holy mother of god on a bike, are you guys insane? are you trying to scare away your casual community?! We don't need MORE BUFFS TO THE ENEMIES, we need serious NERFS. Anything that does flame damage is so overpowered that you can run missions above 50 without having at least two Rhinos, and anything with stun, which accounts for the majority of enemies in the game, save anything corpus [Aka the easy faction], can stun lock you in a corner. Who the hell thought we needed the common enemies to be buffed to function the same as lvl 100?! Most the people I know use 40s to grind on to get to 60s, and 60s to 100s. Now what, we need to grind on 20s to get to 30s, and 30s to 40s? This is...This is just..No...No.....If this is where Warframe is going, expect to lose a lot of your community, and incoming players. You already have a massive wall to entry, and this is jist going to make it a sheer cliff. This is exactly what I figured would happen when people were saying 'oh damage 2.0 will change warframe for the better!'; Clearly not.

 

And before someone says 'oh it's okay, you'll be just as powerful as the enemies', One, no we won't. This has been made clear for months now that the enemies are always going to be stronger than us, and two.....Even if that was true, that's not how to properly balance a game. You balance a game by making each entity have strengths and weakness, alone, not make two entities overpowered and say that's balance.

 

As it stands, either we have too little information here, or this is a horrible update that will break an already broken game.

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Combined Elemental Types:

To create these combined elements requires mixing two primary elements together:

                Blast (Fire + Cold)

                Gas (Fire + Toxin)

                Radiation (Fire + Electricity)

                Magnetic (Cold + Electricity)

                Viral (Cold + Toxin)

                Corrosive (Electricity + Toxin)

 

Elemental Damage is applied in addition to a weapon’s physical damage types.

Weapon Damage = (Impact + Puncture + Slash) + (Elemental).

 

Elemental Damage Hierarchy & Combining Elementals

Elemental damage combinations are made by following a strict order.

 

Fire, Cold, Electric, Toxin.

As an example: If you want Fire damage + Magnetic damage (Cold + Electricity), you will need to split it between weapons because when a Fire Mod enters the mod loadout any other elementals will combine with it as it is first in the hierarchy.

 

Elemental Damage & Combining Elements: CHANGES!

 

After reviewing this thread and working things out with combinations, we have changes to report to Elemental Combinations. Elemental combinations will no longer be based on a predetermined elemental hierarchy, but instead a MOD PLACEMENT hierarchy.

 

This hierarchy is from closest to top left (first to be considered) to closest to bottom right (last to be considered) on the Mod Layout.

 

If you place Cold, Toxin, Fire, and, Electric, in that order from top left to bottom right, you will get:

(Cold + Toxin) and (Electric + Fire).

 

 

Please read the changes! Locking thread to preserve knowledge for now!

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About Forma'd slots - there is obviously still the same benefits but what DM2 does is add ordering into the mix which wasn't a consideration before.

We're definitely open and listening to feedback about this aspect. When the dust settles on this new damage model we'll reexamine Forma'd slots. We do have db account for how many times Forma has been used (the stars) and I've seen a lot of interesting ideas to consider for future update.

Until then, keep an open mind and sharp blade - U11 is on its way!

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