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Prime Resurgence is a bad trade.(Math Values)


(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE

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Prime resurgence is fine as an event, but as a replacement to prime vaults? It is a bad trade.

Prime Vault:

  • Passively earn relics that you can open later.
  • Relics are earned on certain mission types, with so many options you gain them passively.
  • A point for familiarity 

Prime Resurgence

  • Have to trade aya for the relics you need
  • Earn Aya through VERY specific mission types
  • Have to shop for specific relics, and if you miss the window the exact same wait as Prime Vault.
  • Buying of single accessories
    • This is NOT a bonus. Buying of all Wukong's accessories used to cost $20 now, it is $40(6 aya) the same price as buying his entire prime vault
    • Equinox's cost 4 regal aya, you can't buy that exactly so you have to buy 3 twice. Another $40. Or if you don't buy both, you get half the accessories for 100% of the price of the old accessory pack.

Fixes?

  • Give us a clear advantage to Resurgence.
    • I would love to see a way to turn Aya into Regal Aya. A conversion of 25-1 would be a start.
    • Trading platinum into Regal Aya
    • Buying all of a frames Accessories for 3 Regal Aya / $20
    • DO NOT PAD REGAL AYA BUNDLES WITH PLAT. The math explains why this is bad.

Math

  • To give a clue to the value of Regal Aya in terms of platinum. $20 Platinum gives 370 plat. $20 Aya bundle gives 3 Regal Aya and 200 platinum.
    • Math: 370-200=170p the value of the 3 Aya, 56.66 platinum per Regal Aya. An average trader can get this in an hour, a slow hour. 
    • 170p costs exactly $10 on Xbox before taxes

I'm just trying to give a perspective to the value system set up here.

  • Regal Aya=56.66 platinum a piece
  • Real value of 3 Regal Aya minus platinum= $10 (platinum cheapens by quantity bought, this number isn't reliable)

Comparison vs Prime Vaults

Old Accessories(A) should be worth, A+200p=$20                Regal Aya=(A*1.50)+400p=$40-------------1.5 from the 2 remaining Regal Aya.    4 Aya=Accessories(A)

                                                   (1/20)A+10p                         (1.5A/40)+10p

                                                                   1/20A=1.5/40A

                                                                          5 vs 3.75

                                                                        A 25% loss of value

Value versus Old access packs a 25% loss of value

I don't mind the new system, but it shouldn't take away value. The inflated prices would make sense to me if it was a way to skip grind or was for new content, but the old accessories are ONLY found here with no way to farm them. These means the accessories have a 25% upcharge now. If this is an adjustment for inflation, I understand.

Love the game DE, and I'll still end up buying and using your product, but I'll probably buy bundles less often.

If I got any math wrong or misunderstand the bundle's content please let me know.

I also want to discuss other player's views on Resurgence vs Vault.

                                                                

 

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IMO Prime Resurgence is better for relics because it removes some RNG from the relic farming.

EDIT: P.S. In the prime vault system, you also had to farm relics in specific missions. That was usually bounties and Void missions. Now bounties and Void missions drop Aya instead. There's little difference other than reduced RNG.

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I think the pricing is fine, its just that they really messed up with the Wukong pricing. For all 3 accessories it cost 6 regal, but for the full pack, which includes all the accessories + Wukong, all his weapons, the Glyphs and 10k endo, it also costs 6 plat? I hope this is something DE fixes and rectifies.

I honestly feel a little scammed because I wasn't paying attention and bought all 3 of his accessories separately without noticing the blatant value loss because I didn't need the frame or weapons. 

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42 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Prime Vault:

  • Passively earn relics that you can open later.

Prime Resurgence

  • Earn Aya through VERY specific mission types

This is completely backwards. Vaulted relics did NOT drop from every mission, they dropped from very specific missions. Whereas Aya drops from syndicate relic packs, letting me earn plenty of it passively

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

DO NOT PAD REGAL AYA BUNDLES WITH PLAT. The math explains why this is bad.

IIRC, they did not originally have Platinum in the Regal Aya packs.  It was pointed out to DE that this was unfair, since buying the equivalent $20 accessory pack gave 200 Plat.  Given that for certain Prime 'Frames there was not an equivalent $20 Regal Aya value (as is the case for Equinox Prime's accessories), not having ANY Platinum in the Regal Aya packs was a huge downgrade.

DE agree and changed the Regal Aya packs to include Plat as well to match what was offered in the Accessory packs.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Passively earn relics that you can open later.

you can passively play the game and earn aya to get relics.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Relics are earned on certain mission types, with so many options you gain them passively.

mission types have no trouble with their "usage" or "population". it's really not a pro on that part. 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

A point for familiarity 

....what? 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Have to trade aya for the relics you need

specific relics you choose and need. 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Earn Aya through VERY specific mission types

same as prime vault, since the majority of people farm relics not only in specific mission types, but in specific missions themselves. not that much of a variety to begin with. 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Have to shop for specific relics, and if you miss the window the exact same wait as Prime Vault.

so...getting exactly the relic you need is something bad? ....for some reason? 

 

2 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Buying of single accessories

  • This is NOT a bonus. Buying of all Wukong's accessories used to cost $20 now, it is $40(6 aya) the same price as buying his entire prime vault
  • Equinox's cost 4 regal aya, you can't buy that exactly so you have to buy 3 twice. Another $40. Or if you don't buy both, you get half the accessories for 100% of the price of the old accessory pack.

 

Let's make a simple example...

Rhino + Nyx prime vault+ 1200 platinum = 59.99 USD 

Regal aya needed to buy one set: 6

Regal aya needed to buy both sets at once: 10

(sets: warframe + weapons + gliph + prime noggle at the end of the year) 

Regal aya prices and quantities: 

Regal aya x3 + 200 platinum = 19.99 USD

Regal aya x7 + 400 platinum = 39.99 USD

Regal aya x15 + 1200 platinum = 79.99 USD 

Even if you go big and buy the 79.99 pack, you get 5 more regal aya to buy 5 accessories or keep them to buy one more or both sets in prime resurgence, since regal aya doesn't expire. 

So...what is the problem here? 

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it's kinda better, but it's not only pros, i'll agree.
a wider choice of Gameplay is much nicer, and in this case i'll accept a Shop to help simplify things a bit since it's a limited thing rather than a permanent Gamemode or such.

while there's still some cons here and there, i think it's overall much better.
like wider choice of Gameplay, can't really go wrong with that. daily capped stuff obviously runs out and when it does, that pro runs out and the choices get narrower. 

obviously the Monetization forces you to Buy inefficiently, but so does F2P Monetization pretty much everywhere - not that it makes it more okay, but it does make it harder to make a case against it since so many other Companies have a similar Business model.

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7 hours ago, taiiat said:

obviously the Monetization forces you to Buy inefficiently, but so does F2P Monetization pretty much everywhere - not that it makes it more okay, but it does make it harder to make a case against it since so many other Companies have a similar Business model.

Everyone having bad monetization doesn't mean DE have to do the same. The pricing was fair and square for the past but now the pricing of the prime resurgence it suddenly off and getting expensive. I hope they can fix the pricing of the prime accessories and even include regional pricing for players

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8 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Let's make a simple example...

Rhino + Nyx prime vault+ 1200 platinum = 59.99 USD 

Regal aya needed to buy one set: 6

Regal aya needed to buy both sets at once: 10

(sets: warframe + weapons + gliph + prime noggle at the end of the year) 

Regal aya prices and quantities: 

Regal aya x3 + 200 platinum = 19.99 USD

Regal aya x7 + 400 platinum = 39.99 USD

Regal aya x15 + 1200 platinum = 79.99 USD 

Even if you go big and buy the 79.99 pack, you get 5 more regal aya to buy 5 accessories or keep them to buy one more or both sets in prime resurgence, since regal aya doesn't expire. 

So...what is the problem here? 

I think i may be missing something, so can you help make sure i'm understanding this all correctly.

In an example prior prime pack (Nyx & Rhino Prime Pack) we got:

  • Nyx Prime
  • Rhino Prime
  • Boltor Prime
  • Ankyros Prime
  • Hikou Prime
  • Scindo Prime
  • Noru Prime Syndana (plus the extractor BP)
  • Targis Prime Armor Set
  • Vala Prime Sugatra
  • 2x Icons

All of the above for 59.99 USD and comes with 1200 plat

If i do a 1-1 Comparison with what is currently being offered with Regal Aya:

  • Nyx Prime - Wukong Prime
  • Rhino Prime - Equinox Prime
  • Boltor Prime - Stradavar Prime
  • Ankyros Prime - Ninkondi Prime
  • Hikou Prime - Zhuge Prime
  • Scindo Prime - Tipedo Prime
  • Noru Prime Syndana (plus the extractor BP) - Jindou Prime Syndana
  • Targis Prime Armor Set - Narvarr Prime Armor
  • Vala Prime Sugatra - Spektaka Prime Sugatra

The above would take 19 Regal Aya to purchase; which a 79.99 USD pack would NOT be able to cover.

So what i'm not fully understanding, is how am i not losing value with this new system? I'm paying more and still getting less items. Yes, i get more flexibility, but i'm paying more as a result. What am i missing / misunderstanding here?

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11 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

 

  • Buying of single accessories
    • This is NOT a bonus. Buying of all Wukong's accessories used to cost $20 now, it is $40(6 aya) the same price as buying his entire prime vault
    • Equinox's cost 4 regal aya, you can't buy that exactly so you have to buy 3 twice. Another $40. Or if you don't buy both, you get half the accessories for 100% of the price of the old accessory pack.                                                         

Most of what you say regarding the relic farm isnt true, but what is worse is the quoted claim. That is not true since you base the price on unvaults, when in reality Wukong has never been unvaulted before. If unvaultings would have stayed as they were, a future Wukong unvault would be of a higher price, both when it comes to the bundle and seperate accessory pack.

If anything, you should probably take the chance now and buy the whole bundle for 6 aya before DE notices their mistake.

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9 minutes ago, DeTEG said:

So what i'm not fully understanding, is how am i not losing value with this new system? I'm paying more and still getting less items. Yes, i get more flexibility, but i'm paying more as a result. What am i missing / misunderstanding here?

 

What you're missing is that there are bundles available for Regal Aya , Compare your list to the dual prime bundle at https://www.warframe.com/prime-resurgence, which costs 10 Regal Aya. So you can get pretty much everything on your list +5 Regal Aya for that price. And, if you don't want to purchase bundles, what you're paying for is flexibility with how you use the currency.

 

Whether that's enough to make it "good value" is a personal call, but it's not a clear-cut case of "paying more for less".

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15 minutes ago, DeTEG said:

So what i'm not fully understanding, is how am i not losing value with this new system? I'm paying more and still getting less items. Yes, i get more flexibility, but i'm paying more as a result. What am i missing / misunderstanding here?

Nothing except the obvious. At least to those with a bit if life experience.
When company "restructures" their "method of sale" it is not because they want to make less money. Quite the opposite.

This is simply like they said - if you reinterpret the blurp in the patchnotes.
"We have listened to your feedback" = we have looked at how much more/less you opened your wallets during 'resurgence'.
"put more primes in your inventory" = we think this will sell you (you as in the aggregate collective you) more stuff - and many of you already proved the higher pricepoint to be something we could get away with during resurgence.

The second part that you have missed is a little less obvious. They have taken a look at how long players (specifically newcomers) stay and spend, that is the "churn" part of the players, not the longhaul veterans. And worked out that the longer lasting vault periods was "blocking" many of the types who are used to paying "alacarte" on mobile games, by not being able to RMT their way to their desired items until long after they would be have left of boredom anyway. So shorter periods and more flex to get the window of opportunity well within their warframe "lifetime".

Now ask yourself if they or their owners would oppose that. Specifically, the idea of getting more money just by a little change in the cash-shop. Even though many of us are hurting from electricity having gone up +300% and most food is up 20-40% and thus our expected 'frivolous cash' budget is diminished or gone.
Companies rarely do stuff like that without having done their homework - or quickly pay the price and backpedal like crazy while intoning the lipservice about listening to their customers.

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13 minutes ago, drnlmza said:

 

 

What you're missing is that there are bundles available for Regal Aya , Compare your list to the dual prime bundle at https://www.warframe.com/prime-resurgence, which costs 10 Regal Aya. So you can get pretty much everything on your list +5 Regal Aya for that price. And, if you don't want to purchase bundles, what you're paying for is flexibility with how you use the currency.

 

Whether that's enough to make it "good value" is a personal call, but it's not a clear-cut case of "paying more for less".

I think this makes sense. I do still personally believe it is still paying more for less, since the prime pack would include 1200plat at 59.99, whereas the dual prime 10 regal aya pack would be 39.99 + 19.99 (combined 59.98) and only comes with 600plat. This isn't nearly as off-putting as it originally seemed, and i think someone could absolutely make the argument that the extra colors, incubator segment, etc. that comes with the dual prime pack makes up for some of that difference.

 

Thanks

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5 minutes ago, DeTEG said:

I think this makes sense. I do still personally believe it is still paying more for less, since the prime pack would include 1200plat at 59.99, whereas the dual prime 10 regal aya pack would be 39.99 + 19.99 (combined 59.98) and only comes with 600plat. This isn't nearly as off-putting as it originally seemed, and i think someone could absolutely make the argument that the extra colors, incubator segment, etc. that comes with the dual prime pack makes up for some of that difference.

 

Thanks

That is because it is normalized to cater to all frame releases so the system can be automated. Old vault pricing has been based on which 2 frames have been part of the pack and how many accessories they come with and so on. So while 1 dual prime pack may have ended up at 59.99 another may have been higher. And looking at something like the current dual pack, it would have been of a higher price, since it includes 5 accessories. So you'd be closer to the biggest RA pack price most likely.

In the end it really depends on how many unvaults an individual player looks to purchase and which access it is in question in order to determine if it is more costly or more beneficial for them.

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21 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is completely backwards. Vaulted relics did NOT drop from every mission, they dropped from very specific missions. Whereas Aya drops from syndicate relic packs, letting me earn plenty of it passively

Relic packs also dropped vaulted relics during prime vaults. Wherever vaulted relics dropped in prime vaults, Aya also drops in prime resurgence.

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22 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Math

This math is pointless chief as platinum prices are in no way comparable to regal aya prices because of different factors like being able to trade and discounts. Regal Aya is more akin to IRL money tokens as it replaced prime vault (this is also a reason why you'll never be able to get it for free by grinding or trading). Platinum is just an added bonus like in prime vault.

The value Regal Aya offers is same as Prime Vault if you buy a bundle. The only difference now is, you can get individual items and don't need to buy a whole bundle for it.

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12 hours ago, drnlmza said:

 

 

What you're missing is that there are bundles available for Regal Aya , Compare your list to the dual prime bundle at https://www.warframe.com/prime-resurgence, which costs 10 Regal Aya. So you can get pretty much everything on your list +5 Regal Aya for that price. And, if you don't want to purchase bundles, what you're paying for is flexibility with how you use the currency.

 

Whether that's enough to make it "good value" is a personal call, but it's not a clear-cut case of "paying more for less".

But previously, you can buy the accessories in a bundle. Now you can't and ita cost more.thats the point you don't understand. Why the F* someone want to buy Prime warframe if he/she already had it, but missed out the accessories pack. Its wasting money for that person. If you could sell crafted prime frames forbplat  that would be ok, but you can't so it eating up space in yout inventory or you sell it for 5000 credit which is not worth it again. 

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The only gripe I have with the prime resurgence is that amount of Aya placed in the drop tables and how its setup in the void currently.

 

For whatever reason, it seems that some missions in the void have more Aya drops then others, on the node Ani (Survival) in just rotation A, theres 3 drops of aya with the same drop rate as the relics in that rotation. Where as if we look at Ukko (Capture) theres only one with the same drop chance as the relics.

 

Which makes no sense to me. Cause for sure it seems like with this setup with the drops seems to want players to do Bounties and other mission types in the open worlds or the Zaramine even the Void itself. Which for me im not really a fan of any of those options, specifically bounty related ones. 

 

And I know that its all based on RNG, but I did do a text somewhat, I did 34 runs of Ukko in the void to see if I can get Aya and so far it seems like with how the Capture drop tables that are setup there basically makes Aya is practically Nonexistent. This "Test" was purely capture so when the Lotus calls for the mission to be a mini exterminate, I exclude those to save time. In other words I've had 3 runs so far that turned into those and excluded those for quicker run times by leaving the mission, so the actual number of runs is actually 31, still in the 30's though...  So far not a single Aya from here basically.

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On 2022-09-15 at 6:47 AM, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Prime Vault:

  • Passively earn relics that you can open later.

Prime Resurgence

  • Earn Aya through VERY specific mission types

You're playing word games. You gain Aya from - near as I can tell - the exact same missions you'd previously get Vaulted Relics from. You can easily swap the wording there (passively earn Aya, VERY specific missions for Vaulted Relics), and both statements would remain equally true. Simply put, Aya took the place of Vaulted Relics, except now you get to choose which relics you get instead of relying on RNG. This is objectively superior.

 

On 2022-09-15 at 6:47 AM, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Fixes?

  • DO NOT PAD REGAL AYA BUNDLES WITH PLAT. The math explains why this is bad.

The Math very much does not explain why this is bad. Prime Vault bundles used to come in three packages - Accessories, Warframe, two Warframes. Accessories cost $20 and came with 200 Plat. Warframe cost $40 and came with 400 Plat. Two Warframes cost $60 and came with 1200 Plat. I can't see the Wukong Accessories pack (though if it's 6 Regal Aya, that's way too much), but I can see the others. $40 gets you 7 Regal Aya + 400 Plat, with the Warframe pack costing 6 Regal Aya. $80 (looks like, my prices are in Euro) gets you 15 Regal Aya + 1200 Plat, with the Two Warframes pack costing 10. So you can either get the $80 pack and be left with 5 Regal Aya + 1200 Plat, or you can buy the $20 and $40 (for a total of $60) and get exactly the 10 Regal Aya you need + 1200 Plat.

It doesn't matter how fast farmers can farm. Prime Vault was never offered for Plat in the first place. It was always a system solely for new money. Prime Resurgence is more expensive than buying Plat and trading with other players, but so was Prime Vault. You should compare a system with the one it replaced.

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On 2022-09-15 at 5:47 AM, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Prime Vault:

  • Passively earn relics that you can open later.

 

On 2022-09-15 at 5:47 AM, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Prime Resurgence

  •  
  • Earn Aya through VERY specific mission types

Tenno.... It's The Exact Same Thing...

lord-help-me-judge-judy.gif

Aya Drops from the Exact Same locations That Unvaulted Relics Drop.... Bounties, Void and Relic Packs....

So you would be Earning Aya Exactly the Same Way you would be getting unVaulted Relics accept there one big Difference....

Aya Let's You CHOOSE which unVaulted Relics you want without Forcing to do Different level Bounties/Missions for Different Relics...

On 2022-09-15 at 5:47 AM, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Fixes?

  • Give us a clear advantage to Resurgence.
    • I would love to see a way to turn Aya into Regal Aya. A conversion of 25-1 would be a start.
    • Trading platinum into Regal Aya
    •  

LoL....

laughing-hard-lol.gif

 

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The only problem lies in the fact that accessories in wukong pack cost 6 aya. 

The 3 are all considered as "major" pieces by DE, resulting in accessories costing as much as the whole pack.

Suggestion: If de want to keep the rules they set as well as satisfy the players, just add an extra pack containing all the 3 and sell it at 4 aya

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