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I propose a new rule: All warframes should be steel path viable!


Velaethia

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This should start with all new warframes but slowly over time go over older ones too. The reworks for the original trio I think is a good start.

However, many newer warframes struggle in steel path.

Steel path is a great concept. But a lot of frames struggle because of the insane amount of damage so you often need some kind of cheese mechanic to survive like abusing shield gating or adaptation. Iirc DE said they didn't want any mod to feel mandatory. Adaptation is mandatory for like 90% of warframes and even then, it doesn't always save us.

All new frames should have to be play tested in every mission type available in steel path and should be able to clear over 50% of them solo, ideally over 75% solo.

As an added thing. Passives like Caliban's innate adaptation serve literally no purpose. Because it's maxed out at 50% you either need a shield gate build or a a regular adaptation mod. Thus it has no function in steal pass. Idk why letting a warframe have a passive that is identical to a mod is that big of a deal. Frees up a mod slot. Allows for more build diversity when people are grouping with Caliban.

Yareli is just a complete mess but maybe make it so the surfboard is actually useful in negating damage in steel path.

Devs should have to play warframes in steel path both solo and in groups and if it feels like a miserable unplayable experience then tune them or alter them until they become more viable and fun in steel path. 

I love warframe but it feels like there is only 2 modes. Too easy, and Too hard. And this applies to steel path too. 

Honestly the inability to CC eximus is a big issue too. Many warframes rely on CC as their entire survival kit. And they become powerless against eximus and it's a little silly. Why are other warframes survival abilities like Valkyr 4 work on eximus (immune to damage) but I can't make them sleep with Ivara's sleep arrows? I can see reduced duration but not full immunity. CC frames would like a place in the meta and to be able to breathe around eximus like tank frames. Steel path made cc frames viable again and then the eximus rework was a punch in the gut after years of nonviability losing much of their strength because the biggest, baddest enemies that will 2 shot them are immune to their survival mechanism.

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hmm. one large issue i see with that, is that it will force all Warframes to be fairly similar to each other.
because everyone will need to be able to protect Health Based Objectives or deny an area to Enemies - which in other Words means we'd end up with a lot of Abilities doing mostly the same things with small differences.

same goes for what's useful vs a Boss, Et Cetera.

 

i don't think that's really an improvement. we just have to accept that some Warframes are inherently not suited to some Objective types, and so aren't suited to playing those Gamemodes, Solo.

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... There's a pattern here that you've probably missed... All warframes are Steel Path viable, if you know how to mod them, but its heavily suggested that Prime versions are to be used in Steel Path content (Extra armor and other stuff that may potentially be highly beneficial)...

... There's another thing though, DE staff already said that (and, apparently, their position remains the same, as far as I know...) Steel Path isn't "the game". Its a somewhat "challenge mode" for those that 1-shot everything up to lvl500 or so (Yes, lets keep enemy level ranges within decency levels)... "The game" is the regular Star Chart, to which every equipment is, by their words, balanced for...

 

About specific missions, well, there are specialized Warframes and non-specialized Warframes... Maybe use a specialized Warframe, or join someone that owns one, to facilitate a given task...?

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1 minute ago, taiiat said:

i don't think that's really an improvement. we just have to accept that some Warframes are inherently not suited to some Objective types, and so aren't suited to playing those Gamemodes, Solo.

Honestly surviability in itself would go a large way. Make cc work on eximus and make it so warframes don't die in 2 hits in steel path. Steel path is incredibly hard as is without dying in 2 shots and 2 shots instead of 1 is only because of shield gating. You can make frames feel better/less frustrating in steal path without homogenization.

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The issue is the players that aren't steel path ready. They have nezha and other easy to use frames for steel path.

Edit: also just a reminder that CC still affects regular enemies. It literally says in the eximus update notes that you're supposed to focus attack them (as opposed to just standing there doing nothing).

You can spam Vaubans 4 all day and simply shoot/melee the 2 or 3 eximus left standing.

Please keep in mind eximus spawns are limited, so you can't say you're "surrounded" by them and claim you're getting overwhelmed.

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There are Warframes that aren't Steel Path capable? ^^;

I would like to just share my own experience for example that um..

Out of all of the builds I have made in this game so far, the most brain dead and ultra easy one for Steel Path belongs to Yareli.

It's actually so criminally brain dead and easy that I'm slightly ashamed for using it sometimes.

Then I put on some skate punk, ditch my guilt and splish splosh splash my enemies into tiny bits, usually using a single shot for each one. 

I haven't tried every Warframe yet so maybe I am missing some, but I haven't tried one yet that just couldn't do it..  To be fair there are Warframes I definitely would not bring to specific types of Steel Path content, it's not very different in that regard from normal star chart though.

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1 minute ago, Velaethia said:

make it so warframes don't die in 2 hits in steel path.

... I solved that problem in less than 10 seconds... Just mod the Warframe against whatever build you see in Overframe.

Now my very "glass cannon" Gara Prime doesn't break in 2 hits, it breaks in 30.

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14 minutes ago, Velaethia said:

Honestly surviability in itself would go a large way. Make cc work on eximus and make it so warframes don't die in 2 hits in steel path. Steel path is incredibly hard as is without dying in 2 shots and 2 shots instead of 1 is only because of shield gating. You can make frames feel better/less frustrating in steal path without homogenization.

i'd certainly go for Eximus (or rather, Overguard) being a resistance to things rather than immunity. we spent Years trying to get them to do that for Bosses, after all. other Enemies should be no different. 
plus we get to keep all of the Game Mechanics then, anyways.

the Mods we use to protect ourselves vs higher Level Enemies may be fairly similar between them, sure. but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, i guess.

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Every frame is Steel Path viable because frames don't exist in a vacuum.

It doesn't matter what you need to rely on be it Arcanes, your Operator, Helminth options, or specific mods. They're all part of your loadout and all contribute to the performance of every frame. And you also have the choice on what you rely on within all these upgrade paths or if you even use them at all. Like you can replace all survivability options by using Protective Dash on your Operator, use Rolling Guard and maybe include options to abuse shield gating, take Adaptation with shield mods/healing options, rely on a frame ability like Warding Halo or Mesmer Skin, or whatever else you want.

 

If every frame was viable in Steel Path (in accordance with however you define that) then what would be the point of upgrades when they wouldn't be necessary? Especially when considering that Steel Path isn't the "base game". You'll just have an obscene amount of powercreep to the point of DE needing to turn SP modifiers on for all content and make a new Steel'er Path.

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I can think of some Warframes, that would struggle solo in certain missions, yes. Or alternatively certain Warframe's that could be said to specialise/excel in certain missions, much better than others. I do believe that all Warframe's are Steel Path viable though, so which specifically would you say struggle and why?

Survivability is eh... that could be its own conversation. There are a lot of factors, which are hard to measure, including your positioning and how mobile/active you are. Measuring that on a player to player basis can be difficult. To use my self as an example, I can survive much better with no mods on, on a naturally squishy Warframe, now? Then I use to, 3 years ago, with only defensive/tank mods, on a tank Warframe. My game sense is better, my knowledge of AI and their tendencies, patterns, etc, my mobility and movement skill is better, I can use my Operator more, so on. Now, I am not saying that I don't regularly use Adaptation or Rolling Guard, because I do, a lot, but discussions around Survivability and Viability can be difficult, because we don't necessarily know, if one player just stands out in the open, never rolls for the DR, never uses cover and just expects to be able to tank, and if a Warframe can't, then they aren't viable, or... they are somewhere inbetween that, and too cautious, and too focused on surviving etc

Certain Warframes also can do very well in certain content just because of unique/niche abilities. Yeah, it does hurt viability a little in some ways. Like... Wisp is so good for Defection, but a solo... I can't think of a good example, but whatever Warframe you think would struggle in that mode, because they lack CC or ability to speed or heal Defectors? I'm having trouble thinking of example, because going through the list, a lot have small ways they could probably distract, kill or CC enemies a little. Thats without using your Operator, you add them into the equation and you get a few CC and damage resist/support abilities that can help. I am sure there are some Warframes that do struggle though... Maybe skilled use of Spectres could also help. Like I imagine Steel Path solo Interception might be tough for certain Warframes, true, but if you really don't want to have to flex, and yet still want to do Interception, solo in Steel Path, may have to use more tricks, like the Air Support, Specters, more niche weapons etc

Making it so all Warframes, start getting similar tools, could be a bigger negative. Though arguably, changes like the armour change, and more solutions like that, (like say certain mods/passives adjustments) could be less damaging on Warframe identities. 

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I am just frustrated because I want to have more of a challenge then normal missions because those are mind numbingly easy but not something that feels so oppressively difficult with steal path unless you use specific cheese frames or builds. I hate that I can take the frame I feel like playing into challenging content and actually beat it. Like I don't mind a challenge. I mind when something is mathematically impossible to beat. 

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hace 50 minutos, Velaethia dijo:

Honestly surviability in itself would go a large way. Make cc work on eximus and make it so warframes don't die in 2 hits in steel path. Steel path is incredibly hard as is without dying in 2 shots and 2 shots instead of 1 is only because of shield gating. You can make frames feel better/less frustrating in steal path without homogenization.

You don't need to get frustrated you just need to be well equipped...
An example of that is that I haven't seen almost anyone using Frost in endless SP missions, but I use it quite well and without any problems.
Survival, Defense, Disruption, Excavation, and Defection he worked just fine.
Yes, there are warframes that have it easier in some of those missions, that is a fact, but that only indicates the difficulty of the warframe kit, not the impossibility in or use sp.

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12 minutes ago, Velaethia said:

I am just frustrated because I want to have more of a challenge then normal missions because those are mind numbingly easy but not something that feels so oppressively difficult with steal path unless you use specific cheese frames or builds. I hate that I can take the frame I feel like playing into challenging content and actually beat it. Like I don't mind a challenge. I mind when something is mathematically impossible to beat. 

 

Thats a very real issue, i can sympathise with. The games challenge and 'difficulty' is a bit over the place. Star Chart compared to Steel Path is crazy. 

Do you have much experience with Liches and Sisters, or Railjack? Arbitrations? 

These are some of the games modes/areas that I personally found as good midway points. Though, for each person it can be different. Like Arbitrations can have perma death which is quite punishing if solo. Railjack enemies are funny, as they can be quite tanky. Especially in the latter levels, which can basically be Steel Path. I forget the exact reasons why, but they are much tougher they their levels may suggest, something to do with their shields and armour. Liches were what helped me prepare for the challenge of Steel Path, and conveniently some of those weapons also helped me with Steel Path too. 

My apologies if you have already familiar with those modes and find them lacking too! 

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All frames are pretty much viable on steel path tbh. You just need decent enough layers of survivability (ex : umbral vitality + Adaptation + Arcane Grace or Arcane Guardian, maybe some hp regen on the operator / melee weapon / companion), ideally some form of armor stripping (pretty nowadays with high status weapons or by subsuming many armor stripping abilities) and good weapons that can deal enough dps to kill these foes.

If subsume wasn't a thing I would say...  Maybe... But with subsume, you have no excuse not to be able to salvage any frame's kit into something steel path viable.

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1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

... There's a pattern here that you've probably missed... All warframes are Steel Path viable, if you know how to mod them, but its heavily suggested that Prime versions are to be used in Steel Path content (Extra armor and other stuff that may potentially be highly beneficial)...

... There's another thing though, DE staff already said that (and, apparently, their position remains the same, as far as I know...) Steel Path isn't "the game". Its a somewhat "challenge mode" for those that 1-shot everything up to lvl500 or so (Yes, lets keep enemy level ranges within decency levels)... "The game" is the regular Star Chart, to which every equipment is, by their words, balanced for...

 

About specific missions, well, there are specialized Warframes and non-specialized Warframes... Maybe use a specialized Warframe, or join someone that owns one, to facilitate a given task...?

I normally would agree, but the team has changed, you can see it with the last two updates with Reb as the effective lead. The levels of new content seems to only be going up. And while I do agree with the sentiment that most if not all frames are steel path viable, I don’t think it’s fair to say that the game is being balanced around star chart anymore 

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2 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Be specific. What SP content? SP spy? SP disruption? Or SP archwing? 

What does it mean "able to"? Spending 30 mins for SP exterminate, or 5 mins SP survival incursion and extract?

Defense and Mobile defense are my biggest problem because I have to keep myself and a node alive. Without heavy cc, or the ability ro delete and survival it is very hard. "able to" just means completing the missions. Not endless or extended. Just finish the mission. 

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Kiddo mode is Eximus counter. They can be fully CC'd after hitting them with some void blasts. Been playing Yareli just fine in Steel Path. 

There's also mods and arcanes geared towards survival. Arbitrations has Rolling Guard which makes you invincible momentarily. And there are also mods that give chunks of your shields back just for using your powers. And Kiddo mode also got a new revival mechanic that's saved my ass a few times. 

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I agree, although warframes shouldn't be able to do ALL mission types. maybe some will, others not

inevitably some are just better suited than others when it comes to survival, defense etc. 

but I agree that if modded properly all of them should be able to tackle SP.

Cacaliban for example... really underwhelming. Sure you have shield gate for survivability but then why would I pick him over other frames lol. he doesn't bring anything worth picking over other frames.

 

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2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The issue is the players that aren't steel path ready. They have nezha and other easy to use frames for steel path.

Edit: also just a reminder that CC still affects regular enemies. It literally says in the eximus update notes that you're supposed to focus attack them (as opposed to just standing there doing nothing).

You can spam Vaubans 4 all day and simply shoot/melee the 2 or 3 eximus left standing.

Please keep in mind eximus spawns are limited, so you can't say you're "surrounded" by them and claim you're getting overwhelmed.

I wish this was the case.. well.. it was at some point, and then I tried SP Fissures. These missions are ridiculously difficult.

How am I supposed to take down THREE overlapping nullifiers, one is an arctic eximus, two ancients, one heavy gunner eximus, and a guardian eximus all at once? Not counting all the other trash mobs that hide inside said overlapping bubbles. In the end I managed to get by abusing Magus Elevate, but how am I supposed to survive with squishier frames if their abilities that were meant to protect them don't even work? Jumping inside the bubble is obviously a suicidal attempt.

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1小时前 , Velaethia 说:

Defense and Mobile defense are my biggest problem because I have to keep myself and a node alive. Without heavy cc, or the ability ro delete and survival it is very hard. "able to" just means completing the missions. Not endless or extended. Just finish the mission. 

I see. These two modes you either go full murderous or go for CC. In theory you can CC all the way for mobile defense. 

Maybe I have been repeating myself, but Nyx is the usual answer for most of the SP problem. Her Chaos has no effect on eximus BUT eximus will focus their fire on confused enemies, de facto putting them under the effect of chaos as well. I haven't tested it, but maybe large scale radiation proc will also do the tricks. Once you take away enemy aggro, you should have enough time to pick them out.

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