Veilbreaker: Launch & Hot Topics Week 2

[shut]

Unrelated question-- Are these "Launch & Hot Topics Week X" threads going to be a weekly thing from now on? Because I'm really liking this format, and the level of engagement that it brings between the dev team and the community!

It's very nice to have these frequent-but-brief updates on the dev team's responses to community feedback, as well as the team's rationale behind certain design decisions that some players may disagree with. These weekly threads make it feel like there's a much more active "conversation" happening between DE and the warframe community, and I appreciate it very much!

[DreisterDino]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Kahl’s Bonus Challenges are getting some quality-of-life improvements. Firstly, we’re working to ensure that progress in these Challenges will be cumulative. Tenno will be able to partially complete a Challenge (ex: only removing 3 of 5 Veils) and then have that progress counted towards completing the challenge when repeating the mission (i.e. only 2 more Veils would need to be removed). Additionally, we’ve already improved the visibility of Chipper’s Tools and added a sound to the K-Drive parts as a result of player feedback. Another week brings another Mission to take on with Kahl, Veils need breaking - and we’ll be watching to prepare tweaks and improvements in upcoming hotfixes. 

Not that these changes are bad or anything, but...

 

What about moving away from these endless "find stuff on the map" tasks?

Even with this QoL, the tasks itself will still be boring.

 

Look at TNW again and how the Kahl-part was done there. We didnt have to find endless, tiny collectables - do you really think people would have asked for more if we were supposed to look for collectables for hours in the Quest? I enjoyed the fresh wind in TNW - and i was looking forward to this. I dont even care if a mission takes an hour to complete, but if this hour is filled with "run around and look for random stuff in every corner" i just think "nope, i have better things to do (in- or outside of Warframe)".

 

At least i was looking for shooter-gameplay (the foundation of the mission is ok too), not this.

 

You asked this question related to AoE:

Zitat

“Is this playstyle disruptive to other players?” 

Maybe, you should turn this into this when deciding if challenges are good or bad:

Zitat

“Is this challenge disruptive to the original mission task?” 

Because all these tasks make it so that if you really want to do them, you basically stop playing the mission itself. If i wanted to finish the rest now, i wouldnt care about the mission anymore - i would only run around and try to find those collectables until i got them and then return to the mission once i am done. Just one task like removing the Veils would be fine (and that one is implemented best, you can basically still do it while you do the mission because if you just pay a little attention, you will notice them) but this is just too much with a bad implementation on top.

[(PSN)Dr_Masque]

Just more mobile game updates cool.

[(NSW)Master2873]

You're watching stats, and exploits more than you are community feedback... Damage attenuation is awful in both design, and execution, and there is such a thing as over balancing (irony with this term though, this isn't to begin with). Making mega bullet sponges where I was sitting still and fighting the boss one handed on my Switch is not only NOT fun, but isn't good design, it comes off lazy when other boss encounters have been more engaging and didn't feel like a cop out, and didn't feel like it was trying to unnecessarily pad/stretch out gameplay time.

 

Operator energy colors are broken from something that should have been caught in development, animations for weapons are broken, clan emblems are STILL broken, and people PAID for those, and people being locked into New War quest line even upon a revisit is unacceptable, and is a possible issue that should have been expected AND discussed during, and before development of New War. It should have NEVER been designed to lock/force the player to commit beacause of said issue above...

 

Getting Sortie rewards from Archon missions is a slap in the face... They have the same drop rates, and are the same items with the same filler crap that we can get DAILY through sorties, but we only get these weekly alongside a crystal for harder missions, while being rewarded less, and being forced to wait longer. If you want Archon fights to be in line with sorties, I'm surprised they're not being treated as such. Kahl missions, with being expected to beat in under 15 minutes for stock/challenge, just to wait a week to do it again (I understand they're replayable, but you're not being rewarded anymore...)?

 

Also, no word on the nerf to the merciless arcanes... Why was it nerfed when it HURTS ALL WEAPONS, not just AoE, and you already tweaked total held ammo on these? This should have been factored in already, and you made most weapons unusable. I'm getting FAR less ammo back now WITH A MUTATOR before this update, and the point of the +100% ammo is to balance the fact the user HAS TO USE ammo/get kills to get their damage increase from said arcanes... Ammo use has skyrocketed compared to what we're getting back, and it also hurts damage overall since these arcanes run on stacks that expire in MERE SECONDS for our damage!!! Which also inadvertently hurts our weapons even more if we want to hold more ammo, by taking up a slot that could be used for damage to get more ammo that certain non OP weapons NEED. You should be getting a full magazine back at the least from ammo pickups at the rate we're using them... The player should NEVER feel like they cannot defend themselves... Some of my best built weapons for the enemies still take nearly a full magazine sometimes to kill some enemies, like my Cedo, but I only get 20 of the 40+ shots it took to KILL that ONE enemy... Secondaries also need reworks... Most are unusable from my experience, and you're more worried about AoE primaries... The gap between good secondaries, and crap ones are too big...

 

You're applying too many bandaid solutions for bigger underlying issues with your game, and punishing players for HOW THEY WANT TO PLAY... You're now going to force many users to go back to the melee only meta, which goes against the design, and purpose of the secondary, and primary arcanes to begin with...

[Voltage]

17 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

I just hope there won't be an actual catch up mechanic, you know the kind i'm refering to.

Why not? If you want to play a game where it's a perpetual FOMO/exclusivity loop with tasks/challenges and rewards, there's plenty of games for you out there.

Warframe has always been a game with a sprinkle of time-sensitivity, but the assurance that anything (barring the Founder's Package) is on the table to return and newer players can always reach the same or similar progress to old ones. Umbral Forma is a step down this slippery slope, but atleast they are always identical, you can argue that many Warframes won't benefit from one, and if they do, the maximum you will mod for is 3. Archon Shards however are something that every past, present, and future Warframe benefits from, and they are a permanent account upgrade. You can also slot 5, and there is an enhanced version you won't earn often. 

I'm tired of playing the loop of getting something new and the needed improvements it should have launched with take months or years to see. I'm not waiting 7 years for this change to happen like Syndicate representation getting detached from sigils, something that should have happened at the latest with Arcane Enhancements detached from cosmetics in 2018.

[Wolfofthenyght]

41 minutes ago, Aceofgods said:

Make Archon Hunt daily, please.

I would much rather ask for weekly timegating to be removed entirely, and rather have an RNG based system as the easy answer, or adding a fractional currency/resource for the shards as mentioned here but I'll ask for the more likely possibility of change if nothing else is to be done at all.

I'd honestly be ok with a fractional currency if it means I could do it more than once per week & not feel like I wasted an hour. One of the nice things about Warframe IMO is the flexibility to do things at your pace- and sometimes that can fluctuate from 'Do ALL the things' to 'Do this one thing over & over' & not being able to to the ONE new shiny thing I've been enjoying due to the challenge it provides more than once (and get SOMETHING from it for my time invested) is really deflating. Heck, maybe let us do it once per week & get a full shard, then every subsequent time we do it we get a fractional currency that we can spend 50-100 of via Khal & buy a random color base level shard.

I think that would help provide a sense of 'I'm still progressing towards a goal' & do a lot to help keep the enjoyment of the content higher while simultaneously motivating people to do them more than once. That of course will also lead to more players in the squad pool & help other players who might struggle by themselves, or in a random group, to get it done.

[Numerounius]

55 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation but don’t want to rush it out the door too early. We want to make sure we have stats for each fight and how we can apply rules holistically. We will share the stats in our upcoming Devstream (which of the three Archons had what type of success rates, etc)

Reading the first part, good! Changes to damage attenuation is something that I want to see being done.

 

Reading the second part. uhhhhh you are talking about damage attenuation right?

And not about how the actual fight feels and stuff right? I think the fights are awesome but trying to categorize it into success rates and stuff when the clear and obvious issue here is the damage attenuation like how AOE weapons was the clear and obvious issue when looking at most used weapons?

 

Really disappointing to see damage attenuation and the archon boss fights being seen as going hand in hand when they should really be separated since we talked about how bad damage attenuation was for Sisters of Parvos and then again for Archons. So it needs to be addressed on a game-wide level rather than for just one update and its boss fights in order to ensure it won't happen again like it has already proven to be. 

[Tyreaus]

25 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Kahl’s Bonus Challenges are getting some quality-of-life improvements. Firstly, we’re working to ensure that progress in these Challenges will be cumulative. Tenno will be able to partially complete a Challenge (ex: only removing 3 of 5 Veils) and then have that progress counted towards completing the challenge when repeating the mission (i.e. only 2 more Veils would need to be removed). Additionally, we’ve already improved the visibility of Chipper’s Tools and added a sound to the K-Drive parts as a result of player feedback. Another week brings another Mission to take on with Kahl, Veils need breaking - and we’ll be watching to prepare tweaks and improvements in upcoming hotfixes. 

I believe Brozime mentioned this, but I think a simple visibility fix would be indicators - even just on the minimap - that pop up when the player gets close to one. The minimap is least intrusive and can be ignored for an optional challenge, or leveraged in case the player ends up entirely lost where something is. After all, you probably don't want to wreck the atmosphere with thirty indicators flashing on a player's screen.

27 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We’ve kept a close look on Archon Hunts, and still have plans to iterate these fights based on Community Feedback. Nira is on deck next week, we’ll be keeping an eye out to see how the Final Archon fight fares. We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation but don’t want to rush it out the door too early. We want to make sure we have stats for each fight and how we can apply rules holistically. We will share the stats in our upcoming Devstream (which of the three Archons had what type of success rates, etc), and will provide deeper explanations of the challenges in using damage attenuation vs. having ‘single digit second’ boss fights. It will be an open discussion, and we will invite you to join us when we announce our next Devstream. 

Are there any plans to look at the damage system as a whole? Damage attenuation and resistance systems feel like they can promote less-used weapons or different strategies. For example, the Hemacyst tends to be weaker against weapons with higher rates of fire; Eidolons with lower rates of fire and high crit. That seems good. It might be lacking in tooltips and lore integrations that explain those features to players - for example, saying that the Eidolon synovias are vulnerable to high-caliber weaponry - but the result is generally positive.

The problem comes when trying to leverage those in a global way. Those systems trim certain options and, in the process, promote others. As said: high rate of fire for Hemacyst, high crit for Eidolons. Now, it's high up-front multishot with Archons. Again: in principle, that interaction is fine, promoting different strategies. Felarx has a really interesting use case now, for example. But it isn't going to address the issue that you want it to address: that single-digit-second boss-fight.

39 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

A hot topic this week is our most recent changes to Styanax. We made a couple of changes to his Final Stand, one to avoid him casting in the air indefinitely and another to make the ability non-interruptible. We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch. We also made a couple of key fixes to using Rally Cry in squads to ensure the strongest Styanax buff applies and fixed the Vortex effect on his Axios Javelin not functioning for Clients.

I am reminded of the change from coptering to parkour back in Warframe's hey-day. (Or is it hay-day? Are you secretly horses, DE?)

I think that philosophy has been seldom leveraged, much to the company's detriment. I mean, that philosophy is a large part of what got Warframe on the radar. Now it seems that the company is much less flexible, more focused on its vision for the game, and not listening to the playerbase's reactions.

And, you know, I get it. You get focused on what you're doing, lose track of who you're doing it for - that sort of thing. It's not easy, even with a few dozen - let alone millions - in your audience, and requires practice and diligence.

But I also think this is the perfect opportunity to, well, practice. I don't have a personal investment in Styanax, but for what his state was, what the changes involve, and how impassioned people are about it, it seems very low risk and high reward. You have an opportunity to say, "we didn't intend this, but people like it, so how can we make it work?" And, really, what's the worst that would happen? What, he can now re-cast his 4 mid-air instead of taking a fraction of a second to touch the ground again? Assuming it even stays isolated to the ground, since the description did mention surface, which could include wall-jumping. That seems like such a minor thing in terms of balance, but - clearly - a huge thing to the Warframe's feel and the simple pleasure people can get playing him.

You don't need to listen to every single voice. Just keep an ear out when the crowd is cheering and make note of it. That's telling you something went right, even if you didn't intend to do it. All you have to do is, like the parkour system coming from coptering, figure out how to make it intentional and make it work.

Remember Bob Ross: even the most gifted of people, the most brilliant of professionals, can have happy little accidents and be no less for it.

[Drachnyn]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation but don’t want to rush it out the door too early. We want to make sure we have stats for each fight and how we can apply rules holistically.

I'm glad there is realization that the system is in a bad place right now but make no mistake, nothing less than the complete removal of damage attenuation will adress the issue. On a fundamental level it tries to invalidate modding, in a game all about modding. That's before even thinking about how it punishes snipers specifically. You need to have the guts to tell us if our builds are bad in the damage department. Once again you are letting automated system decide aspects of your game design, this time number balancing. That's something you need to do yourself.

[LoopStricken]

58 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Additionally, we’ve already improved the visibility of Chipper’s Tools

Apparently this is dependent on having Bloom and glare active. Oof.

[(NSW)HARUNATSUKI]

Farm Aya in orbvallis is difficult due to a bug

[(NSW)Master2873]

40 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Can we get an open discussion going on why the new syndicate, Archon Shards, Tauforged Shards, and Prime Resurgence all feel like the game is heading into Mobile Game territory?

Because it is. They announced the mobile version the same day/time as cross play.

 

Now they're hellbent on removing player choice, respect for your time, and fun from the game. Sounds like a mobile game to me! It's just missing the mass of microtransactions... Oh... Wait... Lol!

 

I'm almost convinced the boot lickers, and simps for these devs, and game itself, have no clue what an actual balanced and engaging boss fight is.

[SpiritTeA]

I love Khal missions, I don’t mind spending 1 hour per week for some interesting gameplay (I hope all missiond will be pretty diverse). If you don’t like look for collectibles- wait onr day and watch on youtube, they all have pre-set positions… And don’t tell me people who can’t look around corners of the map don’t watch Warframe youtubers…

Weekly missions are great. I’d rather play 5 hours in 5 week for set of shards than grind 15 non-stop hours per day for arcanes like some degene… Person without real life. I can do few Eidolon hunts per week, but this pointless and means that I exactly will never get all the arcanes, and platinum is catch-up mechanic for me. Screw it.

I think damage attenuation must be raw number, like instance of damage dealt in one second cannot be bigger than X. So you have plenty of options do this exact X damage. Overall I have no problems with Archon Hunts, I love them and I aren’t cheesing them.

Keep up the good work DE! Warframe feels very good nowdays! I can only wish to rework of some outdated frames and more post-New War content, not only Khal missions.

[TheGreatNappa]

I'm extremely impressed by the transparency and communication Rebecca and the team have been showing.
For me, this is a much better sign and change than a few buff/nerfs or a flashy new release.
PLEASE, keep trying. Even if the changes suck it's important to TRY, because we'll end up on a better result eventually. Styanax unfun? That's ok, keep trying and i'm sure he'll be both fun and balanced eventually.
So, for these 2 behaviors that are being displayed. Sincerely thank you. Please keep at it and i expect amazing changes down the road.

[(PSN)DeZaruu]

I look forward to see what you'll do with the archon balancing.

Some feedback on Amar:
Boreal (Day 1) felt significantly harder than Amar (Today, Friday); I'd actually go so far as to say Amar takes far too much damage from the Felarx (at least the setup I've on, I ran as Saryn - alongside a Rhino, Wisp and Inaros). I think there's a good place in terms of difficulty between the two, but as it stands Amar seems like he could be beefier.

[SpiritTeA]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)Master2873 said:

Because it is. They announced the mobile version the same day/time as cross play.

 

Now they're hellbent on removing player choice, respect for your time, and fun from the game. Sounds like a mobile game to me! It's just missing the mass of microtransactions... Oh... Wait... Lol!

 

I'm almost convinced the boot lickers, and simps for these devs, and game itself, have no clue what an actual balanced and engaging boss fight is.

So people hate grinding hours per day to get (and it’s not 100% chance!) something  and always complain about how tedious the grind is, than DE make weekly missions with 100% reward once per week, but it’s “time gate, mobile crap, source of brain cancer etc”. Are you ok people? You fine spending 40 hours per week grinding for new weapons(and complaining a lot during it), rather than grind it for one hour but once a week? Go play Korean mmorpgs, I’m sure you’ll love that. No time gates and full respect to your time.

Oh by removing player choice you mean nerf to AoE? What a pity, that’s certainly not nerfs in games like Elder Scrolls Online, where you can freely delete your characters(if you’re not top 15% of best players)  or make tank out of your DD, because your class was nerfed. Total respect of player’s choice and time.

[N7Arthur]

The Archon and Kahl missions are neat, but I was kind of hoping there would be more to do in Veilbreaker. With the two missions being only once per week there really isn't much to engage with. If they were at least once a day or every 3 days or something it would be better.

[Skaleek]

On 2022-09-16 at 5:03 PM, PublikDomain said:

What's the plan for Tauforged Archon Shards? Specifically, adding the ability to combine or upgrade lower-grade Shards like you can with Focus Lenses and systems that support Valence.

Edit: and to echo other commenters, adding the ability to interact with Kahl/Chipper without changing to the camp.

 

On 2022-09-16 at 5:09 PM, Voltage said:

Can we get an open discussion going on why the new syndicate, Archon Shards, Tauforged Shards, and Prime Resurgence all feel like the game is heading into Mobile Game territory?

Week-gates are unenjoyable for everybody. The die hard players will need years upon years to have a decent amount for the enormous Warframe roster, and anyone who misses some weeks or are newer to the game will never catch up. I'd argue Archon Shards feel just as bad if not worse than Login Tributes before it was capped at 1000 for unique items and players were allowed to choose milestone rewards.

 

To me, this is the biggest pain point of veil breaker, just keep asking!

[(NSW)Master2873]

22 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Oh by removing player choice you mean nerf to AoE? What a pity, that’s certainly not nerfs in games like Elder Scrolls Online, where you can freely delete your characters(if you’re not top 15% of best players)  or make tank out of your DD, because your class was nerfed. Total respect of player’s choice and time.

DE was awefully worried with their intial post when the update dropped about players not being able to play in their own play style, and if they were being stopped. You're proving now that it's not yours, but is fine to intrude on others playing that way. Don't get me wrong they needed to be nerfed in a specific way, but that was not the way of doing it.

 

Then their way also hit EVERY WEAPON IN THE GAME! They nerfed BOTH merciless mods (without adding ANYTHING to make up for the removal of ammo like other mods, and items in the same update) removing the extra ammo gained by them as a balance to give the player more ammo to work up their damage stacks that expire in MERE SECONDS, and ammo drops now are much worse than what they were pre veil breaker... I'm getting far less, while using MORE to kill enemies while also getting LESS DAMAGE as my stacks are still expiring IN MERE SECONDS, while also potentially LOSING MORE DAMAGE if I want to apply a mod that will give me more ammo. Also, I'm referring in this using NON AoE weapons for this example, and while I'm using a mutator. Comparing it to another game that is no where near similar in design (other than it being an RPG) is not a great example.

 

Just because you don't like AoE weapons and their unnecessarily harsh nerf because of usage stats (which isn't a good reason to nerf whatsoever. If this is the case every frame like Wisp, Saryn, Khora, and other one shot/OP frames should be nerfed too...), doesn't mean others are NOT allowed to enjoy it. The easy nerf to them would have been as simple as reduced ammo (not as harsh as it is now), and not being able to hit enemies through walls, and doors. That would nerf them hard enough, but still be USABLE... If you honestly think that a weapon that can hit a whole bunch of enemies apposed to 1 at a time isn't going to be used more out of sheer utility, and efficiency (which we are told to be even during SO) you're out of your mind...

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Kahl’s Bonus Challenges are getting some quality-of-life improvements. Firstly, we’re working to ensure that progress in these Challenges will be cumulative. Tenno will be able to partially complete a Challenge (ex: only removing 3 of 5 Veils) and then have that progress counted towards completing the challenge when repeating the mission (i.e. only 2 more Veils would need to be removed). Additionally, we’ve already improved the visibility of Chipper’s Tools and added a sound to the K-Drive parts as a result of player feedback. Another week brings another Mission to take on with Kahl, Veils need breaking - and we’ll be watching to prepare tweaks and improvements in upcoming hotfixes. 

I think this is an excellent idea, but how do you intend to make hunting for these little doodads fun on repeat?  It was barely tolerable once.  It would have fit better in a cinematic, one-off quest.  It doesn't have the staying power to be enjoyable every three weeks.

 

When can we expect Warframe-centric content?  I really like the Archon Hunts, and would like to see more content like that.  Less of Kahl, please.  I get that most updates have to be content islands so experienced players don't breeze through in a day, but this particular content island is egregious.  I don't even get my arsenal.  A big draw of this game is steadily amassing an array of weapons, frames, and companions for any situation.  If new updates are going to invalidate that, or be completely incompatible with the tools I've gathered, where's the appeal?

[Arthegall]

Styanax being able to cast other abilities in the air really made him feel unique. It just made sense, the phantom Spartans should be able to help multitask. As is his 4 is pretty useless in higher level game content. Just makes you an easy kill with no counter play, you’re just stuck in an animation, its not very engaging. Styanax has no reliable way to regen his shields, so again in higher level content he is at a disadvantage. You want more shields because his passive but you don’t want more shields because thats just going to get you killed. His two also needs something to make it feel like it belongs in his kit. The health heal makes no sense, it should really heal shields with no over shield component. I can understand not being able to spam his 4, but not being able to cast while locked in an animation really isnt fun at all. These nerfs really make his deep design flaws shine.

Gyre fun killing all over again. Instead of the easy quick nerf hammer, why not address the problem of the”bug” and add the component that the players found fun? Gyre for example, her 4 had a bug (we all seeing the Pattern?) causing it to proc to much, an internal 1 second cooldown was added. A nerf to her overall damage when her damage wasn’t nuts in the first place, why not add a diminishing return. As the 4 procs the range of the chain shrinks until it hits 0 then resets. Tames the AOE destruction, but gives her a boost to her single target DPS. Maybe to strong but the point is her 4 was fun, felt very thematic, felt intentional. It feels like the fun aspect for these frames keeps getting striped away for no real reason and with no attempt to add the fun component back with iteration. 

[SpiritTeA]

23 minutes ago, (NSW)Master2873 said:

DE was awefully worried with their intial post when the update dropped about players not being able to play in their own play style, and if they were being stopped. You're proving now that it's not yours, but is fine to intrude on others playing that way. Don't get me wrong they needed to be nerfed in a specific way, but that was not the way of doing it.

 

Then their way also hit EVERY WEAPON IN THE GAME! They nerfed BOTH merciless mods (without adding ANYTHING to make up for the removal of ammo like other mods, and items in the same update) removing the extra ammo gained by them as a balance to give the player more ammo to work up their damage stacks that expire in MERE SECONDS, and ammo drops now are much worse than what they were pre veil breaker... I'm getting far less, while using MORE to kill enemies while also getting LESS DAMAGE as my stacks are still expiring IN MERE SECONDS, while also potentially LOSING MORE DAMAGE if I want to apply a mod that will give me more ammo. Also, I'm referring in this using NON AoE weapons for this example, and while I'm using a mutator. Comparing it to another game that is no where near similar in design (other than it being an RPG) is not a great example.

 

Just because you don't like AoE weapons and their unnecessarily harsh nerf because of usage stats (which isn't a good reason to nerf whatsoever. If this is the case every frame like Wisp, Saryn, Khora, and other one shot/OP frames should be nerfed too...), doesn't mean others are NOT allowed to enjoy it. The easy nerf to them would have been as simple as reduced ammo (not as harsh as it is now), and not being able to hit enemies through walls, and doors. That would nerf them hard enough, but still be USABLE... If you honestly think that a weapon that can hit a whole bunch of enemies apposed to 1 at a time isn't going to be used more out of sheer utility, and efficiency (which we are told to be even during SO) you're out of your mind...

I like AoE weapons, I like Bramma , Ignis, Chakkhurr, Ogris, Bubonico, Komorex… Like my most formed weapons are AoE dude.. Yeah Merciless nerf sucks, that’s why here is Feedback forum. 

But guess what, I still use those weapons if I want, and I don’t have any problems. Sure I have to use melee more now, for Arcane Dexterity to proc, actually use Helminth much more too(Roar, munitions, armor strip abilities to put on), so my regular playstyle changed a lot, but I like the game itself much more than my previous playstyle. DE wanted players to be actively involved into gameplay while nuking everything. That’s all, that’s only thing about that change. I’m okay with that, it sounds reasonable. No to standing in textures while your clone kill enemies, no mindlessly spamming rockets in one direction. Yes , some adjustment have to be done, but DE are really take them with open hands and listen to us (Which you get never in many other games).

My comparison with Elder Scroll more than reasonable, it’s not about game, it’s about time investment and nerfs. Very few nerfs in Warframe really killed something (can’t remember anything) while nerfs in that game make you put all hours you spend on that character into the trash can, because your Nightblade now sucks as DD (It’s not Warframe where you can play SP with Mk-1 braton if you masochist if you not pass DPS check you will NOT finish that content ever, there is only ONE such thing in Warframe… while in ESO it’s probably almost hundred PAYED DLC and Trials, on that game you not guaranteed to finish content you payed for if you suck, LOL!) and if you don’t like Healer role.. Oh dear, sucks to be you, but you can buy option to transfer achievements and progress to other character for only 10$, sounds legit?

[ASH_PRlME]

tldr here

Tau shard and archon hunt schedule remain the same

Enjoy your "years grinding same content"

[DeadS1lence]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

A hot topic this week is our most recent changes to Styanax. We made a couple of changes to his Final Stand, one to avoid him casting in the air indefinitely and another to make the ability non-interruptible. We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch. We also made a couple of key fixes to using Rally Cry in squads to ensure the strongest Styanax buff applies and fixed the Vortex effect on his Axios Javelin not functioning for Clients.

Then why not reverting those changes? Players clearly enjoyed it and it made Styanax one of the more unique frames with his own flavor. It wasn't OP by any means and be able to cast during his 4 made his gameplay just fluid and enjoyable.

[(NSW)Master2873]

28 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

I like AoE weapons, I like Bramma , Ignis, Chakkhurr, Ogris, Bubonico, Komorex… Like my most formed weapons are AoE dude.. Yeah Merciless nerf sucks, that’s why here is Feedback forum. 

But guess what, I still use those weapons if I want, and I don’t have any problems. Sure I have to use melee more now, for Arcane Dexterity to proc, actually use Helminth much more too(Roar, munitions, armor strip abilities to put on), so my regular playstyle changed a lot, but I like the game itself much more than my previous playstyle. DE wanted players to be actively involved into gameplay while nuking everything. That’s all, that’s only thing about that change. I’m okay with that, it sounds reasonable. No to standing in textures while your clone kill enemies, no mindlessly spamming rockets in one direction. Yes , some adjustment have to be done, but DE are really take them with open hands and listen to us (Which you get never in many other games).

 I'm not gonna lie, I didn't read this all the way yet, but wanted to type this before I forget, then I'll finish reading. I misread your last comment then. Sorry if it came off aggressive, and in general for the misunderstanding. You can ignore a majority of that comment then. Now I'll finish reading and see if there is something I can try bringing up.

 

Yeah, they seem open to feedback, but so far they haven't addressed any of our complaints with ammo on non OP AoE weapons, the current ammo economy which is terrible right now as I'm using more than twice the ammo as I'm getting back, and the drop rates for ammo gets WORSE the more people you play with, which also punishes co-operative play, then ALL this mixed with the mega bullet sponges of Archon fights and their damage attenuation which is basically a middle finger to all our builds, and we can't even use consumables during them either (or we can, but not realistically).

 

It's just like I said in another comment here. They're applying bandaid solutions to the overall issues with the game. They also seem to have knee jerk reactions of nerfing things, Like Pyre and Styanax, instead of coming up with clear solutions to the root issues, without thinking how it could hurt the overall experience inadvertently or purposely. Example: Like when they added the Sorocco. They didn't bother to make sure that the amp would function properly when they added it to the game. When it was first introduced, it failed to cycle Profit Taker's damage types like other amps. Or just the + ammo in merciless arcanes and how the ammo economy messes with the damage stacks from the arcanes that were added in as "buffs" we had to WORK FOR, for our guns since melee was still the dominating method and was a solution to it, but before that, they nerfed Kuva Bramma before the arcane, so it seems like they didn't care, and still don't since they want to hurt ALL weapons overall, and force a majority of users back to the old meta, going against the purpose, and design of the arcanes.