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Amber Shards are a waste of time


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This must be a joke right?

- Parkour velocity is pointless to upgrade,

- Casting speed is pointless as you can cast while bullet jumping to avoid damage and the abilities you can't either cast quickly or have I frames on them. (not to mention shield gating is a thing)

- Energy orb effectiveness is sub par. but most people will just pop an energy pad or rely on their arcane for energy (or a warframe ability like trinity or styanax)

. Health orb effectiveness is absolutely garbage. Life Strike exits. Healing Return is crazy good now with the status rework. Many frames have powerful healing abilities and those that don't can subsume and get it. And also wooho..... 100% so I get 100 HP instead of 50 on a random pickup for health LOL. My inaros has over 6000 Hp so yeah even capped and all filled that isn't even worth considering

- And energy on spawn? Really? For doing the highest tier of mission type you really think that this is even a concern at that level?

How about instead we get:

  • 10% (15%) Ability Range -> (We can always use another means to diversify our mod builds)
  • 10% (15%) Ability Efficiency - > (Same with this one. Would free up a mod slot for augments and such)
  • +5 (+7.5) Energy Regeneration - > (Far better than RNG pickups and could stack with the aura mod for some decent passive returns)
  • Increased Shield Regeneration Rate - > (would be good for hildryn and shield gate builds with caliban and Harrow)
  • Passive Ammo Conversion (or something useful in certain situations) -> (Because literally anything is better than parkour velocity)

 

Those are just some random things that would be worlds better than what we are getting. I really feel like DE had to BS three different ability types so they threw random stuff at the wall for the amber shard and went with what stuck. This is just unacceptable for a SHARD REWARD. Ya know, that thing we have to do an annoying archon hunt and farm once a week praying for a 20% tauforge. Something it would take years to build out all our warframes with....Yeah...that. Would sure suck to be out an entire week because the crystal up for grabs is trash. Please fix DE.

Edited by (PSN)RenxHoshigaki
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Just now, ShogunGunshow said:

It's impressive how one can be so confident and so wrong at the same time.

by comparison to the red and blue ones? The orange ones aren't worth considering as slots are limited. There needs to be a reason to pick these over the other two and currently there is not. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion but in terms of raw performance and numbers the other two are objectively and numerically better.  I'd appreciate it if you'd contribute constructively to it instead of being a snob but judging from your history you don't have a proper foundation to stand on anyways. You should try being nicer to people it goes a long way,

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33 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Tenno please.

I am beyound amazed by the rest of your statement as well.

If you can show me any circumstance where parkour velocity is both vital and trumps the other buffs I'll gladly retract my statement. The base movement and velocity is more than sufficient for any situation if you know how to actually move in warframe. And there are many ability options with some frames that should you require it can be leveraged. It's not worth wasting a shard slot over is the point I'm making here

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2 minutes ago, Petroklos said:

how to invalidate 400 words with just 6

again. Would I pick velocity over a raw defense buff or damage. Absolutely not. You are welcome to prove me wrong and explain. But in my experience across multiple hours with all fifty frames on a variety of missions I have no reason to upgrade this and waste the opportunity to enhance other far more critical stats. I'm more than open to discuss it (hence why it is here) but posting such a smug comment serves no purpose other than to be toxic.

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Sorry, OP, but I can't agree with any of your points.

Parkour Velocity is a great QoL. Stack 5 of them and its fun for days. Remove a parkour velocity mod and warframe starts feeling terrible, even though, in theory, nothing significant has changed... Other than what you are used to, which happens to be pretty significant.

Casting Speed is a gem. Excal, Volt, Titania or any warframe relying on spamming abilities could use this.

Same goes for energy max on spawn. I know My Titania needs it. I could technically do an entire mission with no zenurik if I stack azure and amber shards. Which also means I don't need primed flow, which is a free mod slot.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:
  • 10% (15%) Ability Range -> (We can always use another means to diversify our mod builds)
  • 10% (15%) Ability Efficiency - > (Same with this one. Would free up a mod slot for augments and such)
  • +5 (+7.5) Energy Regeneration - > (Far better than RNG pickups and could stack with the aura mod for some decent passive returns)
  • Increased Shield Regeneration Rate - > (would be good for hildryn and shield gate builds with caliban and Harrow)
  • Passive Ammo Conversion (or something useful in certain situations) -> (Because literally anything is better than parkour velocity)

Thing is, your suggestions aren't great either.

The ability buffs are pointless as to engage in content where you would even get shards, you must be at least decently built or some veteran of the game by now in terms of understanding mechanics. You probably have corrupted mods by now. One corrupted mod is already better than 5 stacking an ability buff from shards, so thats two dead stats on the get go. It does not diversify your builds, rather, it just makes an already existing build stronger (not diversify it), and we don't need that at this point in the game.

Energy Regen seems good on paper, until you realize tons of things give energy back more than enough already. Energy Regen does not work on warframes with channeling abilities, so you would want something like orbs instead. Arcanes already give enough energy to begin with.

Shield Regen rate is useless, even on Hildryn. Sheild Recharge Delay Reduction would be a better pick, albiet overpowered considering how broken Vazarin's shield is on Gauss.

Ammo conversion is not going to happen.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

Amber Shards are a waste of time

They are one that worth the effort.

2 hours ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

- Parkour velocity is pointless to upgrade,

I don't like increasing roll distance with Parkour velocity upgrades but it doesn't mean some people may like it.

2 hours ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

- Casting speed is pointless as you can cast while bullet jumping to avoid damage and the abilities you can't either cast quickly or have I frames on them. (not to mention shield gating is a thing)

So, let's say I'm casting STyanax 1st. I should aim at enemy and click. I like to jump. Are you suggesting bullet jumping into some place, turning probably ~180, re-aiming at enemy? Yeah, that's sound silly.

2 hours ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

- Energy orb effectiveness is sub par. but most people will just pop an energy pad or rely on their arcane for energy (or a warframe ability like trinity or styanax)

. Health orb effectiveness is absolutely garbage. Life Strike exits. Healing Return is crazy good now with the status rework. Many frames have powerful healing abilities and those that don't can subsume and get it. And also wooho..... 100% so I get 100 HP instead of 50 on a random pickup for health LOL. My inaros has over 6000 Hp so yeah even capped and all filled that isn't even worth considering

They are indeed not the greatest. They should be % of our hp/energy or something.

2 hours ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

- And energy on spawn? Really? For doing the highest tier of mission type you really think that this is even a concern at that level?

It's nice thing to have. Honestly I wish that they would just fill whole energy on start. It's not a problem in most cases but it's sure good not to bother about energy on start.

2 hours ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

How about instead we get:

  • 10% (15%) Ability Range -> (We can always use another means to diversify our mod builds)
  • 10% (15%) Ability Efficiency - > (Same with this one. Would free up a mod slot for augments and such)
  • +5 (+7.5) Energy Regeneration - > (Far better than RNG pickups and could stack with the aura mod for some decent passive returns)
  • Increased Shield Regeneration Rate - > (would be good for hildryn and shield gate builds with caliban and Harrow)
  • Passive Ammo Conversion (or something useful in certain situations) -> (Because literally anything is better than parkour velocity)

Think more about utility than more power.

I don't like Parkour velocity myself but it would be fine with roll shorter rolls (& more speed).

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On 2022-09-19 at 10:39 PM, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

again. Would I pick velocity over a raw defense buff or damage. Absolutely not. You are welcome to prove me wrong and explain. But in my experience across multiple hours with all fifty frames on a variety of missions I have no reason to upgrade this and waste the opportunity to enhance other far more critical stats. I'm more than open to discuss it (hence why it is here) but posting such a smug comment serves no purpose other than to be toxic.

  • In a game that's all about going fast, both in its combat loop and in its grind loop, +15% parkour velocity, which is a lot more than it implies, is easily comparable in value to stuff like +150 HP, +25% Secondary Critical Chance (not a Final Additive Bonus) and +10% Power Strength.
  • Casting Speed might as well be one of the strongest Stats of the Archon Shards, second only to Energy Max. Some Frames don't need it, but for others (eg Oberon, Frost, Harrow) it's a massive boon while freeing up the Mod Slot Natural Talent would've taken.
  • Energy Orb Effectiveness is +50% Energy for any Build that relies on and uses Energy Orbs. A Maxed Arcane Energize is +150 Energy per Orb once every 15 seconds, so an increase of 10 Energy / second. This buff would increase Small Energy Orbs from 25 to 37.5 (+12.5) and Large Orbs (Eximus drop these) from 50 to 75 (+25). As long as you pick up an average of 20 Energy per Second, just one non Tauforged of this buff will be as strong as a Max Rank Energize (20 * 0.5 * 15 = 150).
  • +100% Health Orbs is easily the weakest, but certainly not trash. For Warframes that can reliably generate Health Orbs, it just doubles their HP regeneration and can fully off-load self-healing duties to just this one Shard. And if it doubles the value of Health Orbs in a way that would also affect Equilibrium, it's going to be incredibly strong.
  • Energy filled on Spawn can be neat niche pick for some Warframes that need Energy to get started, or for use in (E)SO without needing to use Preperation.

The main problem with your post, is that you both underestimate the aforementioned buffs and significantly overestimate the buffs of the other Shard types. There comes a point when you have all of the Damage, Power Strength, Survivability etc one might need, at which point other Stats that previously seemed like waste-of-slot QoL start seeming quite alluring.

Edited by Petroklos
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3 minutes ago, quxier said:

So, let's say I'm casting STyanax 1st. I should aim at enemy and click. I like to jump. Are you suggesting bullet jumping into some place, turning probably ~180, re-aiming at enemy? Yeah, that's sound silly.

His 1 is more than fast enough to just be used as is without a casting speed buff but I mostly jump with it anyway as you can hit the ground to pull in enemies adding more to its utility. No need to enhance it at all. 

5 minutes ago, quxier said:

Think more about utility than more power.

This is definitely a valid point and one that we should come together to think about because even currently we aren't really getting that here. I myself am struggling to think of a utility type buff that wouldn't be abused in some way. 

 

To everyone here just to reiterate the problem I have with the amber shard is the mission we are doing to get it compared to the reward of the shard itself. The things contained in this one that are buffed are things that we already have and manage effectively at this level. More defenses and damage are always useful regardless of style or mission type. But the stuff here is not objectively. 

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1 minute ago, Petroklos said:
  • In a game that's all about going fast, both in its combat loop and in its grind loop, +15% parkour velocity, which is a lot more than it implies, is easily comparable in value to stuff like +150 HP, +25% Secondary Critical Chance (it's seemingly not an Additive Bonus) and +10% Power Strength.
  • Casting Speed might as well be one of the strongest Stats of the Archon Shards, second only to Energy Max. Some Frames don't need it, but for others (eg Oberon, Frost, Harrow) it's a massive boon while freeing up the Mod Slot Natural Talent would've taken.
  • Energy Orb Effectiveness is +50% Energy for any Build that relies on and uses Energy Orbs. A Maxed Arcane Energize is +150 Energy per Orb once every 15 seconds, so an increase of 10 Energy / second. This buff would increase Small Energy Orbs from 25 to 37.5 (+12.5) and Large Orbs (Eximus drop these) from 50 to 75 (+25). As long as you pick up an average of 20 Energy per Second, just one non Tauforged of this buff will be as strong as a Max Rank Energize (20 * 0.5 * 15 = 150).
  • +100% Health Orbs is easily the weakest, but certainly not trash. For Warframes that can reliably generate Health Orbs, it just doubles their HP regeneration and can fully off-load self-healing duties to just this one Shard. And if it doubles the value of Health Orbs in a way that would also affect Equilibrium, it's going to be incredibly strong.
  • Energy filled on Spawn can be neat niche pick for some Warframes that need Energy to get started, or for use in (E)SO without needing to use Preperation.

The main problem with your post, is that you both underestimate the aforementioned buffs and significantly overestimate the buffs of the other Shard types. There comes a point when you have all of the Damage, Power Strength, Survivability etc one might need, at which point other Stats that previously seemed like waste-of-slot QoL start seeming quite alluring.

Most enemies at the high level content have multiple AOEs and swarm you while tanking loads of damage. You can move as fast as you'd like but you're going to get hit at some point. I'd rather prepare to survive the hit and have time to react than to be just taken out because I invested in movement instead. part of this issue is as you had mentioned the game flow. The game is not about going fast. Defense missions? Escourt missions? Survivals? The game has changed alot over the years and I don't think we can say that anymore. I mean look at the Kahl mission? How he moves? That doesn't shout speed to me. But I can see what you are implying. It just doesnt seem worth it by comparison.

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Your arguments seem to boil down to 'unimportant' or 'we can use other means.'
Thing is those 'other means' also preclude using that means (arcane or mod) to do something else. So all this does is allow for build flexibility. 

Revenant would /LOVE/ more casting speed given how slow his 2 is. Ditto Garuda. Other frames might not want that though but I know my Oberon would adore more energy from energy orbs. Ditto many other frames which would allow offsets for effecancy problems. Health orb bonuses suddenly make nekros even BETTER  as a desicrate-bot, and  parkoru speeds are phenominally underrated. 

To me if anything bhe blue shards offer the least useful bonuses, and even then they are still useful to have for the sake of freeing slots up.

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b) The only reason I chose a certain melee weapon (praedos) — extra parkour speed.

c) A few of my warframes use preparation. How good would it be to replace it with some real mod?

d) Health and energy eff. isn't as good, yeah.  Arcane energize = +600%,  1 shard should be at least 100~150%

a)  Even +5% range is too OP

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

Most enemies at the high level content have multiple AOEs and swarm you while tanking loads of damage.

Archon Shards will not significantly increase your Damage. When talking Abilities, they provide less than even an Exilus Mod. When talking Weapons, they provide a relative increase of 11% Primary Status Chance when using two 60/60s, 8.7% Secondary Critical Chance when using Primed Pistol Gambit and 13% / 15% / 16% / 16.4% Melee Critical Damage when using Organ Shatter at Yellow / Orange / Red 1 / Red 2. Melee Critical Damage is easily among the best Archon Shard Buffs.

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I'd rather prepare to survive the hit and have time to react than to be just taken out because I invested in movement instead.

Archon Shards will also not significantly increase your Survivability. Frames can tank plenty-fine, up until they're getting oneshot. These shards will only delay the "oneshot" a bit, especially due to Armor using a formula with harsh diminishing returns, or will force janky Health/Armor Tanking Builds on to Warframes that are not made nor fit for it. And not to mention the current meta and how none of the Archon Shards compliment it (that's a good thing).

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Defense missions? Escourt missions? Survivals? The game has changed alot over the years and I don't think we can say that anymore.

Going fast in Defense Missions lets you reach the Enemies faster, kill them faster, return to the Defense Objective/Operative faster and as a result both speed up the Mission and be safer. Escort Missions are abandoned and haven't been used again in so long. Survivals have been superseded by more modern takes on that concept too. The Mission Design has been moving to demanding more movement of Players. Hunting Demolishers in Disruption, all of the new Zariman Mission Types (yes even Armageddon as it constantly moves you back and forth, frequently demanding of you to react on threats to Mission Objectives that you're not at), the Deacon stage in Archon Hunts.

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But I can see what you are implying. It just doesnt seem worth it by comparison.

And that's fine. Each has their own priorities and playstyles, so not seeing their value for your playstyle is perfectly fine. But they do have value for lots of other applications and playstyles, you just don't see them.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)RenxHoshigaki said:

If you can show me any circumstance where parkour velocity is both vital and trumps the other buffs I'll gladly retract my statement. The base movement and velocity is more than sufficient for any situation if you know how to actually move in warframe. And there are many ability options with some frames that should you require it can be leveraged. It's not worth wasting a shard slot over is the point I'm making here


1. invincibility frames for rolling (parkour velocity effects all of your rolls)
2. Shooting while in high speed (most weapons are not usable while sprinting or break sprint)
3. Vertical mobility (AI has hard time swapping between horizontal and vertical, melee enemies, radiaated and disarmed enemies can't swing at you at all)
4. Higher overall speed (self explanatory).

While I am not saying that it is the best fit for every plastyle, there seems to be a major misconception about what shards can and should. The main usage depends on the loadout and the end goal. Most of the utility is usually gained in very expensive way in Warframe - mod and arcane slots, and shards can and will drop the need to use things like Flow, Mobilize, Arcane consequence or enchance them further. 

If you want a direct example for a situation in which Parkour velocity -> sprint speed, then pick any non SP Capture nodes, which people run a lot during Void Fissures. Spending energy on Sprint (Volt) or flight (Titania) can be swapped all together with a Rhino with base movement and parkour velocity with almost no input from the user. After all the end goal for the META is the most *efficient* way to do things, not the most flashy one. 

PS: This is ofcourse if the person who uses this loadout finds the movement option compelling. Playing Ping Pong with Volt, tossing out of bonds with Nova, dealing with AW controls as titania or rolling off the map with velocity can be compelling or hated due to multiple reasons. I personally use all options depending on the mood.

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22 minutes ago, maaleru said:

d) Health and energy eff. isn't as good, yeah.  Arcane energize = +600%,  1 shard should be at least 100~150%

Arcane Energize is +600% on Small Energy Orbs, +300% on Large Energy Orbs and has a 15s cooldown. An increase of 150 Energy every 15 Seconds, assuming that you instantly pick up an Energy Orb the moment its cooldown ends and it always triggers on that first Orb even though it only has a 60% Chance, translates to +10 Energy per Second.

A single "+50% from Energy Orbs" Archon Shard would need 20 Energy per Second picked up in order to equate the +10 Energy per Second of an Energize. Depending on you Loadout, that's not hard to achieve.

Edited by Petroklos
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55 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Energy Regen seems good on paper, until you realize tons of things give energy back more than enough already. Energy Regen does not work on warframes with channeling abilities, so you would want something like orbs instead. Arcanes already give enough energy to begin with.

I've often said that channelling is a downside to an ability, rather than an upside - especially when the alternative duration based buff is refreshable before expiry.

Tack on "+5% energy regen continues while channelling" (was going to say 10% but Tauforged set 75% might be 'too much') - might actually be worth considering on hungrier channel frames as an alternative to relying on Energise procs.

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7 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

1. invincibility frames for rolling (parkour velocity effects all of your rolls)
2. Shooting while in high speed (most weapons are not usable while sprinting or break sprint)
3. Vertical mobility (AI has hard time swapping between horizontal and vertical, melee enemies, radiaated and disarmed enemies can't swing at you at all)
4. Higher overall speed (self explanatory).

1. Inconsistant at best and certain attacks completely ignore it (could be a bug or issue on DE's end but it happens nonetheless)

2. still have to be able to aim, and the base speed is more than sufficient for this to evade while also shooting. We also have the aim glide feature which from a bullet jump works well as is

3. Can literally just jump or bullet jump at base and is more than sufficient

4. Speed is nice but again most trouble enemies use giant AOE or homing and if you are swarmed or defending an objective on higher difficult missions you dont want to get too far from that objective

7 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

If you want a direct example for a situation in which Parkour velocity -> sprint speed, then pick any non SP Capture nodes, which people run a lot during Void Fissures. Spending energy on Sprint (Volt) or flight (Titania) can be swapped all together with a Rhino with base movement and parkour velocity with almost no input from the user. After all the end goal for the META is the most *efficient* way to do things, not the most flashy one. 

If you approach a capture target properly you'll easily get the jump on it. CC and a decent weapon will drop it without the need for this added speed. It won't be able to get away regardless.

Edited by (PSN)RenxHoshigaki
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9 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

PS: This is ofcourse if the person who uses this loadout finds the movement option compelling. Playing Ping Pong with Volt, tossing out of bonds with Nova, dealing with AW controls as titania or rolling off the map with velocity can be compelling or hated due to multiple reasons. I personally use all options depending on the mood.

I wish we could have fun and also be effective but so much of that has been removed, nerfed, or only usable in very specific situations. Hence my issue with spamming abilities. If too many people use it, they nerf it. 

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