Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Controversial thought: companions


(XBOX)Nightseid

Recommended Posts

So I feel that companions should not be available to all warframes. Don't get me wrong I enjoy them but they die too fast, few are actually useful and perhaps more importantly typically dont truly feel as if they contribute to the warframes in any meanful way minus min-max builds. This thought came to me when I was resurrecting someone's pet for like 6 or 7 time in a mission and I was like "why can't DE just giving all the pets passive like the infested kavat?" Then after a while I just became disinterested in saving the pet and let them die. 

Afterwards I became curious because you generally don't see most games allow every character class to have a combat pet. These are typically limited to only pet or summoner classes - I'm assuming this for balance and build diversity purposes. 

In MMORPGs and ARPGs these classes are typically designed with specific roles in mind. The character provide ranged dps and the pet providing tank support, vice versa and etc. In warframe companion dont have that balance and what makes it more chaotic is the player has very little control over them. A dedicated pet class usually have functions that allow them to control the pet's abilities and target. Imagine if DE had designed kubrows and sentinels like this initially. Perhaps we would have the falconer warframe by now, utilizing the different sentinels: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1092356-falconer-frame/

Heck I was think maybe khora's venari would have been shaped for the other pets.

This is just thought. I know companions will never be removed or readjusted at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

In warframe companion dont have that balance and what makes it more chaotic is the player has very little control over them.

The player has no control over any of them at all (excluding Venari) and their only purpose is to unlock lockers.

Other than that, its another mobile decoration like the Domestik Drones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as their survivability goes, sentinels definitely need help.

I used to think moas, kavats, vulpas, predasites, kubrows and hounds needed help equally as much help, but I finally proved myself wrong. They just require really heavy investment. If you use link-health, link-armor, AND link-shields, yes, all 3 of them, PLUS Primed Pack Leader and if you want another defensive mod like Hunter Recovery (which you can stack with Pack Leader) Synth Fiber or Medi-Pet Kit, then your pet will almost never go down even in the highest SP missions. I was only using two of the link mods at a time for a long time but using all 3 revolutionized my pet usage, not sure why, but it was enough to keep them up. This does depend a little on your frame though. The weaker your frame, the weaker your pet, and you need to consistently melee to refresh their health.

Kavats/Vulpas have extra survival tools too, making them better for weak frames.

All that said, I do think that increasing general survival for them would be good. Just like everything else, our companions need to keep up with our power creep. Increasing the base stats of all companions would help a lot, especially armor. Making more and better options for weak frames in particular would be good, and so would providing some real help to sentinels, who just cannot keep up. Sentinels even struggle in the regular starchart.

Also, I'd love for some real expansion in mods and cosmetics for ALL companions. The offerings are pretty limited.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Restricting companion access would create more issues while not actually solving the problems players have with them. Also the survivability issues are somewhat overblown.

The main issues they have is that "animal" companions have ai issues which can be largely solved by being able to dictate a "mode" for them. Like staying passive, be more aggressive, to keep a distance from the player/enemies, etc. But they all have access to Pack Leader which does keep them alive in most cases if you keep an eye on their hp.

While the issue Sentinels have is that non-primes have awful base stats. But the Primes aren't hard to keep alive if you don't spend entire missions facetanking enemies. Especially if you make use of things like Primed Regen and the Synth mods. And Hard Reset isn't hard to trigger in SP missions. Also anyone who uses Vazarin for Protective Sling already has invulnerable companions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

So I feel that companions should not be available to all warframes. Don't get me wrong I enjoy them but they die too fast, few are actually useful and perhaps more importantly typically dont truly feel as if they contribute to the warframes in any meanful way minus min-max builds.

Not a very good argument for not all frames being able to carry pets.

Some people like specific pets independent of their atributes , just for having something else following them in missions despite it either not being very efficient at what its ment or often causing the player to backtrack to ressurect it.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

This thought came to me when I was resurrecting someone's pet for like 6 or 7 time in a mission and I was like "why can't DE just giving all the pets passive like the infested kavat?" Then after a while I just became disinterested in saving the pet and let them die.

As a Vazarin main i usually dont resurrect player pets in missions until i have used up all charges of my Mending Souls ability as Ressing pets consumes Charges from it.

I dont feel bothered to ress other players pets as long as they didnt bring a rank 0 unbuilt pet to a Sortie or higher difficulty mission so it doesnt constantly die.

As for giving all pets the Vulpa ress mechanic, im totally against it, i would rather DE just made Pets completely invulnerable/not die instead of adding a Bandaid mechanic when they are long overdue reworking pets to make them viable.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

Afterwards I became curious because you generally don't see most games allow every character class to have a combat pet. These are typically limited to only pet or summoner classes - I'm assuming this for balance and build diversity purposes. 

In MMORPGs and ARPGs these classes are typically designed with specific roles in mind. The character provide ranged dps and the pet providing tank support, vice versa and etc. In warframe companion dont have that balance and what makes it more chaotic is the player has very little control over them.

Yeah but those games have different combat mechanics than Warframe and arent as rushed either, they are built and balanced around reinforcing the roles each class plays on the battlefield or raid, in Warframe almost every frame can play every role , especially after the introduction of the Helminth system.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

A dedicated pet class usually have functions that allow them to control the pet's abilities and target. Imagine if DE had designed kubrows and sentinels like this initially.

Khora does have some controlability of how Venari behaves but its still pretty limited. They did plan years ago to release an update focused on Pets and did mention adding some form of control to the Pets but as usual, some things DE teases never leave the paper and end up in the concept void.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

Perhaps we would have the falconer warframe by now

We could have had it independent of a Pet rework. People have been asking for Flyer Pets ever since DE introduced the Condrocs to the plains.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

So I feel that companions should not be available to all warframes. Don't get me wrong I enjoy them but they die too fast, few are actually useful and perhaps more importantly typically dont truly feel as if they contribute to the warframes in any meanful way minus min-max builds. This thought came to me when I was resurrecting someone's pet for like 6 or 7 time in a mission and I was like "why can't DE just giving all the pets passive like the infested kavat?" Then after a while I just became disinterested in saving the pet and let them die. 

i don't see the connection between some pets needing a buff or a survavibility rework and pets that shouldn't be available to all frames? care to explain more on why they should be? 

restricting pets or even equipment is never going to be justifiable in a gameplay or to be quite honest...even logic whise. 

unless we're talking about situations like Anthem where only one "class" was able to use heavy weaponry, because yeah...giving a rifle that is taller and larger than the standard "class" doesn't make sense. 

But in warframe we don't really have this problem.. 

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Nightseid said:

Afterwards I became curious because you generally don't see most games allow every character class to have a combat pet. These are typically limited to only pet or summoner classes - I'm assuming this for balance and build diversity purposes. 

In MMORPGs and ARPGs these classes are typically designed with specific roles in mind. The character provide ranged dps and the pet providing tank support, vice versa and etc. In warframe companion dont have that balance and what makes it more chaotic is the player has very little control over them. A dedicated pet class usually have functions that allow them to control the pet's abilities and target. Imagine if DE had designed kubrows and sentinels like this initially. Perhaps we would have the falconer warframe by now, utilizing the different sentinels: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1092356-falconer-frame/

(FYI, this comment might come from the fact that i firmly believe that Warframe and MMORPGs/ARPGs have little to nothing in common besides a standard and basic usage or treatment for the gameplay and the fighting. thing that most game have in common besides of their categorization..) 

But we don't really have a pet class in warframe, the closest frame that comes to it is Khora that has one skill that for as much useful as it is, it's just a single ability that doesn't really define her like a pet class should.

Pet classes are...a whole conversation filled with games that never find a proper way to balance the character and the pet together...looking at Fl4k from Borderlands where from the several changes they got, they went from needing pets...to not needing them...to have compleatly lost the real meaning of "pet class" where people didn't need or wanted pets on them, to being their only source of dps to just a survivability thing...

Pet classes (that are the sole focus on the character being a pet class) really are...tricky to make in a videogame. 

On the other hand, i can tell you with almost certainty that response of the Warframe community to the changes you implied in this comment would divide the playerbase in 3 groups. 

20% - taking the changes and actually using them.

30% - acknowledging the changes but really not making a radical change to their gameplay or way to play them.

50% - will not care and not using them as (at that point) they should.

Really the only relevant way to save them at this point is slightly buffing their stats and putting some more "utility" mods for them. something like -pet does something- enemies in a certain range take more damage, or an adaptation for pets, something of the sort. 

 

A way i see Warframe making a some sort of full fledge "pet class" (it would be more of a "fast, one only summoner class", really) is similarly to how New Genesis PSO2 did with the Waker class.

a class where the character summons different monsters for a split second or slightly more to make them perform a single attack (or one combo) and then go back to the shadow realm. (lol) 

but i really don't see Warframe making a frame where there is the frame and their pet/pets always with them like Khora or like any other pet we already have in game. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DE has tied multiple basic quality of life mechanics to an AI companion that is nearly impossible to keep alive unless you're doing what they don't want you to do and spamming AOE and being disruptive by making sure nothing on the map is alive to kill your companion.  As long as that QOL is attached to them, I have the opposite opinion as you.  I think they should just straight up be unkillable.  None of them are so effective at anything other than being a vehicle for basic QOL that they would break the game by just making them an immortal passive creature that provides utility and some combat assistance.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

i don't see the connection between some pets needing a buff or a survavibility rework and pets that shouldn't be available to all frames? care to explain more on why they should be?

The agrument is companions as they currently are should not have existed. They are not designed to engage with the warframe or their abilities in a meanfully way, unlike a pet class you would see in other games: MMORPGs, arpgs, etc, other than being a qol mods carrier that have added to the game's power creep. Thus far there is one mod that tries to bridge the gap of allowing players target enemies with companion which is hunters command. 

It's more of a comment than a suggestion as  removing companion will NEVER happen. The best I can hope for at this point is DE adding more options to control our pets like how khal commands Iike his troops

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sentinels (and most pets) are only used by a great many players, as platforms to hold Vacuum and Enemy/Loot radar, and such quality of life features. They are very rarely used offensively as part of a Warframe's "build" like you would build for summoners or pet classes in other games. Not even Khora with Venari, or Necros with his minions or Oberon with his passive, are really pet classes, when it comes right down to it.

How about a new weapon for Sentinels: Phase Distortion Field Generator
Is not a weapon. Prevents the Sentinel from being used in an offensive manner. Sentinel cannot be damaged.

The problem here is, Kubro/Kavats can't use weapons to have an equivalent "claw" type weapon, and would instead, have to give up a mod slot for something like this. This is not my preferred solution to the situation. Just another idea that came to me while reading it.

(I have a feeling the original intent that caused them to make Sentinels able to die, was to prevent them from being used as AFK bots to kill stuff while you're away. They already stop attacking when you haven't moved for a short while... so there are already built-in anti-afk measures in place now, beyond that.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DE simply needs to decide whether or not companions are supposed to increase player's DPS or not, and base a full rework on that decision:

if companions are allowed to deal high enough damage to kill enemies, then they should be buffed to the point where they can actually scale and deal damage to high level enemies. if they aren't then they need utility buffs and invincibility.

otherwise they will have to segregate companions between DPS and utility versions and add those traits to both. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are also talking about sentinels, my carrier with verglas does not die (up to about level 180 SP) and is one of the best things in the game. Takes out SP enemies quite easily, vacuums my loot and has other uses. Now my smeeta keeps dying, so I can agree that those need a buff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...