How did I get oneshot? / What do the EE.log numbers mean?

[Terroriced]

I tried to find out how Archon Nira oneshot my Nezha at full hp through shield gate and Warding Halo + 555 armor + 10% adaptation to toxin (96.85% damage reduction).

I expect the reason to be a combination of toxin damage from Verdilac and a well-known Warding Halo bug from 2018.

The EE.log shows this:

6141.733 Game [Info]: Terroriced was killed by 2,551 / 2,590 damage from a level 150 ArchonNiraAvatarNewPNW1075 using a AiPNWArchonWhipWep
6141.746 Game [Info]: Enabling spectator mode

I thought the first number was my hp and the second number was the damage done to it. But that would be wrong, because my hp was at 1289 and not 2551.

So what do these numbers mean then?

[Terroriced]

If the game did apply 2590 damage through my damage reduction, using the formula for EHP, the initial value would have been 82017 damage.

However, the previous hit from Nira dealt 51 damage to Nezhas hp. It was the hit that added the 1 toxin adaptation stack.

I calculated the initial damage for this hit to be 51*(1/(1-(0.9+(1-0.9)*(555/(300+555)))) = 1453.5

If Nira used the 3 attack unique block combo from Verdilac and this was the second hit (200% damage), the 3rd hit (500% damage), which killed Nezha, would have initial damage of

1453.5/2*5 = 3633.75

This is nowhere near the 82017 initial damage that I calculated from the death log value.

[Terroriced]

I found the last puzzle piece:

 

3600.26 - 3192 = 408.26 //This is how much toxin damage does not get affected by Warding Halos damage reduction, which is already known bugged behavior.

408.26*(1-((555/(300+555))+(1-(555/(300+555)))*0.1) = 128.92 //That is how much remains from that damage portion after damage reduction by armor and 1 adaptation stack

3600.26*(1-((555/(300+555))+(1-(555/(300+555)))*0.1) = 1136.92 //Maximum possible damage if all toxin damage was unaffected by Warding Halo

1136.92 - 128.92 = 1008 //???

1008 + 1581.25 = 2589.25 // damage to health + damage to shields = total damage applied. This is how much damage the death log showed (with little rounding error).

 

What is the game even doing here?

The game takes 10% of Warding Halos points, adds to that the maximum possible toxin damage completely unaffected by Warding Halo and finally reduces the value by how much the initial toxin damage exceeded Warding Halos points reduced by damage reduction but not Warding Halos 90%. The result is declared damage to health. This is effectively more than 100% of the damage that Nezha would have received without Warding Halo. It is bizarre.

 

I want to spell it out again:

We have 100% of the damage unaffected by Warding Halo + 10% of Warding Halos points minus the damage that exceeded Warding Halos points.

The damage is amplified to 116.75% in this case instead of reduced to 10%.

Instead of massively reducing damage taken, Warding Halo slightly increases it. W T F

[Terroriced]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb (PSN)isbergen:

I didn't read all your posts, but noticed you mentioned shields in some calculations. However, toxin bypasses shields. Thus shields are an absolute zero value in toxin damage calculations.

I didnt read all your words, but noticed you didnt contribute anything of value to the topic.

[(PSN)isbergen]

I didn't read all your posts, but noticed you mentioned shields in some calculations. However, toxin bypasses shields. Thus shields are an absolute zero value in toxin damage calculations.

[Terroriced]

3600.26 toxin damage + 1581.25 damage to shields = 5181.51 total initial damage

If Nezha didnt have Warding Halo up, toxin damage to health would be 3600.26*(1-((555/(300+555))+(1-(555/(300+555)))*0.1) = 1136.92

Now this is crazy, because this means Nezha would have survived without Warding Halo here (1289 - 1137 = 152 hp left).

Warding Halo does actually make Nezha MORE vulnerable here. How did that happen? Have we just entered new dimensions of craziness?

[Terroriced]

3600 toxin damage should not be able to onehit Nezha with 3192 points in Warding Halo, even when we consider the well-known bug from 2018, that Warding Halos damage reduction is much lower than the intended 90% when a hit has more initial damage than Warding Halo has points.

You can read about the math of that bug here:

I would expect the equation to look like this: (3192*0.1+(3600-3192))*(1-((555/(300+555))+(1-(555/(300+555)))*0.1) = 229.6

As soon as Warding Halo is depleted the bug causes the remaining damage to not be affected by Warding Halos 90% damage reduction and applies it before the invulnerability period, that is supposed 'to keep the player always protected' like Pablo wrote in the dev workshop. Still there should be only 229.6 damage, which is already more than the correct value of 113.625. This does still not explain why Nezha got oneshot here.

[Terroriced]

I think I can solve the first mystery. How did the game change Nezhas hp from 1289 to 2551 during damage calculation?

Here is how. First let's change the damage values on the first hit slightly again in the range of rounding error.

50.5 damage to health --> 50.53

63.5 damage to shields --> 63.25 (when the game shows 100 shields reduced to 36 this can also mean 99.5 reduced by 63.25 to 36.25)

63.25*(1/(1-0.9)/2*5 = 1581.25 initial damage to shields on second hit

Now add health value to damage on shields value: 1581.25 + 1289 = 2870.25

Now subtract the damage value that leaks through Warding Halo until it is depleted (10% of Warding Halo that was at 3192 points): 2870.25 - 3192*0.1 = 2551.05

Remember that number? Right, that's what the game claims was Nezhas hp!

 

This means that the game first depletes Warding Halo, applying 10% of its points as toxin damage to health and then in a second step claims that your health was the remaining hp + all of the shield damage, because the shield gate is somehow regarded as additional ''health'' for the purpose of the EE.log. This can only happen when receiving combined damage that includes toxin, so you simultaneously hit the shield gate and die. It's rather confusing and I would call it another bug to be fixed.

[Terroriced]

I was just able to confirm in the Simulacrum that the 25% damage reduction that shields have does not work when Warding Halo is active. So thats another bug to add to my list.

 

Now let's get to the interesting part, the second hit that oneshot Nezha.

If I use 50.5 instead of 51 and 63.5 instead of 64 for the damage values applied on the first hit, I get 2076.25 for total initial damage. Thats exactly how much points Warding Halo lost.

Recalculating the previous formula for initial toxin damage with 50.5 instead of 51, I get 1439.25/2*5 = 3598.125 initial toxin damage for the second hit.

Likewise damage to shields would be 1587.5

1453.5 / 2 * 5 = 3633.75 total toxin damage

853.3 / 2 * 5 = 2133.25 total damage to shields

64 * (1 / (1 - 0.9)) / 2 * 5 = 1600

 

 

3598.125/(1/(1-(0.9+(1-0.9)*(555/(300+555))+(1-(0.9+(1-0.9)*(555/(300+555))))*0.1)) = 113,625

This is how much damage the second hit should have done if the math the game was doing was correct. Nezha should have survived with 1175 hp left.

Instead the game calculated 2590 damage, which is almost 23 times too much. Let's try to find out what happened.

 

 

[Terroriced]

Let's take a look at the 1453.5 initial toxin damage for the first hit.

Warding Halo was at a value of 5268 before and 3192 after. That's a reduction of 2076. This damage value is equal to the total 90% initial damage unaffected by crit or headshot multipliers.

The first hit also dealt 64 damage to Nezhas shield additional to the 51 health damage from toxin. Warframe shields have a 25% damage reduction.

64 * (1 / (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * 0.25)) = 853.3 initial damage to shields

Now we add that to our initial toxin damage

853.3 + 1453.5 = 2306.8 total initial damage. Since this differs from the expected 2076, there are more factors to be considered.

2076 / 90 * 100 = 2306.7

What if shield damage reduction from Tenno Shields does not work under Warding Halo?

64*(1/(1-0.9) = 640

640 + 1453.5 = 2093.5 Now this is close enough to 2076 to be caused by rounding error.

It looks like there might be a bug with Tenno Shields 25% damage reduction and Warding Halo. This does not explain why Nezha got oneshot on the second hit yet.

Edit: I made a mistake assuming points lost on Warding Halo equals total initial damage. After some more testing I found out that Warding Halos points reduce by 90% of the total initial damage and not 100% as I thought earlier. This means my other conclusion, Tenno Shields 25% damage reduction would not work when Warding Halo was active, was wrong. This is not bugged and works as intended. Still, the observations and conclusions on the killing blow to Nezha on second hit from my following posts remain correct and here the damage reduction from Tenno Shields seems to not be part of the equation, which makes no difference, because it was the toxin damage that resulted in Nezhas instant death.

[NinjaZeku]

6 hours ago, GojuSuzi said:

Using the numbers you posted (96.85% reduction) that would technically make EHP 1289x1.9685, or 2537-ish.

Not quite. By your logic, 100% DR would be 2x Health, while in actuality you already reach 2x Health at 50% DR, at 75% it's 4x Health, and so on.

The math looks something like this:

EHP = Health / (1 - DR)

So, with 1289 Health and 96.85% DR, we'd get

EHP = 1289 / (1 - 0.9685) = 40,921 (rounded up)

Which doesn't match up with 2551 at all, alas.

[Terroriced]

If I understand the math correctly, EHP is to be calculated this way:

1289*(1/(1-0.9685)) = 40921

or to be precise

1289*(1/(1-(0.9+(1-0.9)*(555/(300+555))+(1-(0.9+(1-0.9)*(555/(300+555))))*0.1)) = 40818

 

I dont think the first number is EHP, because semlars death parser labels it as health and because in the other 2 cases of getting oneshot the numbers were exactly equal to Nezhas hp.

 

[Slayer-.]

15 hours ago, Terroriced said:

A player on the warframe discord server suggested to use semlars death log parser:

EE.log: 6141.733 Game [Info]: Terroriced was killed by 2,551 / 2,590 damage from a level 150 ArchonNiraAvatarNewPNW1075 using a AiPNWArchonWhipWep

Semlar death log parser: 01:48:11 - <Terroriced> killed by 2,590 damage at 2,551 health from a level 150 ArchonNiraAvatarNewPNW1075 using a AiPNWArchonWhipWep

This confirms that the first number in EE.log is health while the second number is damage to health.

This also confirms that there is a bug with incorrect player health.

 

However I have no clue how the game mistakes my 1289 health for 2551 health during damage calculation.

I thought you already knew about that site, your lines looked close you had pasted in, if I'd paid more attention I would have just posted in my post template, when players are not sure. 

Spoiler

In the future when you die, leave the game running and just alt-tab out to look. Go to this website https://semlar.com/deathlog and you can see what killed you.
 

Quote

 

Death Log Parser
This tool reads through your EE.log file and identifies the cause of death for anyone on your team. Your log file is located at %localappdata%\Warframe\EE.log in windows.

Your log file is not uploaded to the server. Everything is processed locally in your browser.

It can take up to 10 seconds for the log file to update with a new entry after a player dies if you're using this while the game is running, so if a recent death isn't showing up just wait a bit and try again.

The log file is erased every time the game is launched; you will lose the data from your previous session if you restart the game without making a backup copy of the old EE.log file.

 

This is how it displays the information.
 

Quote

Player identified as <Slayer-.>
LOG DATE - 11/07/2021, 11:58:30
13:01:02 - <DETHCUBE PRIME> downed at 343 health by a level 90 NAPALM using a NapalmLauncher
13:06:35 - <DETHCUBE PRIME> downed at 58 health by a level 100 ELITE SHIELD LANCER using a AIGrnGrenadeLauncherPistol
13:21:37 - <DETHCUBE PRIME> downed at 960 health by a level 128 ELITE SHIELD LANCER using a AIGrnGrenadeLauncherPistol
13:35:06 - <DETHCUBE PRIME> downed at 261 health by a level 159 ELITE SHIELD LANCER using a AIGrnGrenadeLauncherPistol
13:35:06 - <DETHCUBE PRIME> killed by 959 damage at 262 health from a level 159 ELITE SHIELD LANCER using a AIGrnGrenadeLauncherPistol
13:41:49 - <Slayer-.> killed by 72 damage at 16 health from a level 175 ELITE LANCER using a AIGrnBurstRifle
LOG ENDS - 11/07/2021, 13:43:50

 

 

[GojuSuzi]

Guessing time. Is that your EHP, not your actual HP? Using the numbers you posted (96.85% reduction) that would technically make EHP 1289x1.9685, or 2537-ish. 2551 would allow for some other temp buff or fuzzy maths, if your DR effects add to your EHP instead of reducing the actual damage value. 

[Terroriced]

A player on the warframe discord server suggested to use semlars death log parser:

EE.log: 6141.733 Game [Info]: Terroriced was killed by 2,551 / 2,590 damage from a level 150 ArchonNiraAvatarNewPNW1075 using a AiPNWArchonWhipWep

Semlar death log parser: 01:48:11 - <Terroriced> killed by 2,590 damage at 2,551 health from a level 150 ArchonNiraAvatarNewPNW1075 using a AiPNWArchonWhipWep

This confirms that the first number in EE.log is health while the second number is damage to health.

This also confirms that there is a bug with incorrect player health.

 

However I have no clue how the game mistakes my 1289 health for 2551 health during damage calculation.

[Terroriced]

I have it on video, so I can look at the exact frame where all of my health depletes, so there were certainly not multiple damage sources.

 

I have 2 other cases of getting oneshot, but in those the first number exactly equals hp and shields were not up.

273.714 Game [Info]: Terroriced was killed by 1,337 / 1,763 damage from a level 145 PNWNarmerRifleSpacemanAvatar46 using a NpcThrowGrenadeWeapon

1458.974 Game [Info]: Terroriced was killed by 1,337 / 1,847 damage from a level 146 PNWNarmerShotgunSpacemanAvatar237 using a NpcThrowGrenadeWeapon

It looks to me like when getting hit by Niras Verdilac the game miscalculates both my hp and the damage value.

 

I thought maybe someone can confirm that those numbers in the EE.log are indeed hp / damage.

[taiiat]

the most important part, is what the Log reports is only the last Damage instance that hit you. something could deal 99% of your EHP, then something could deal 1 Damage, and the Log would report the second one.

i believe that the Log tells you how much Damage something did, meaning it can exceed the amount of Health which you have.
i'm not positive on why it reports two Numbers, but i might guess actual Damage vs Quantized Damaged?