small banshee "rework"

[_Anise_]

I am sure some of the anti improvement knights will hate this but possibly just make Banshee immune for the duration of her ultimate? (this effect isn't considered busted or op on gara)

then with the augment it could give just give a brief duration of immunity.

won't matter how overpriced quake is, you could then use the ultiamte primarily for survivability iframes ignoring it's mediocre damage and finally can drop the rolling guard mod

 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

At this point warframes dont really need to be made more op, they just need to be more fun. Like im not trying to just be unkillable in a boring way like old Wukong using Defy, id rather be actually doing something entertaining to become unkillable like timing abilities right and dodging

Thats why i cant get behind the idea of simply making Banshee go invulnerable on her ult. 

[CopperBezel]

Sure, but is Banshee really one of those frames anyone's worried about making OP? And is she in fact fun? I feel like I only hear about or see her being used for Sonar, which is kind of a one-trick squad buff. And Silence is a pretty okay defense move, so her 1 and 4 are where I'd expect to put attention. Right now they're the most stock old-warframe abilities possible for those slots, an elemental projectile blast and a radial damage.

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

not trying to just be unkillable in a boring way like old Wukong

you will have to tell me how the old one was different ? defy? looks the same to me ? unless you were talking about an even older rework or something else?

the main ways Banshee can survive in the steel path like any other warframe that does not come with a built in tankability like skill,

1. subsume gloom again, which starts to get old when every single squish frame has to do this to go on steel path and the result is effectively turning off enemies = boring, I also had todo this on ember and protea and it's kinda why I am playing those frames less now.

or

2.auger + brief resprite with a dragon shield key then press a button to fully reload your shields, stop casting for a moment and you die which also imo isn't fun, if I wanted that I could just play trinity

you got to admit at least that soundquake is weak purely as a damage ability ? you cast that on steel path it will do nothing to the enemies and unaugmented is pretty much just a death sentence.

20 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

s Banshee really one of those frames anyone's worried about making OP? And is she in fact fun?

she has 2 builds, sonar and silence,sonar is really good against anything it will apply to which isn't most bosses, I at least enjoy supporting the team giving them a damage boost, her silence execute builds are kinda of fun but silence is a subsume so you could technically play that on rhino now and not have to worry about taking damage if someone escapes the silence effect.

pretty much what you said, her 1 is typical old warframe and 4 is garbage on top of that, I figured putting survivability on her 4 may at least bring her to a slightly better place, it don't necessary have to be flat immunity having her ultimate charge shields and generated overshields would add depth to her style and put the ultimate in rotation while making her more usable in harder level content like steel path and maybe even solo stuff

(because it isn't doing anything as a damage aoe)

 

[CopperBezel]

12 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

you will have to tell me how the old one was different ? defy looks the same to me ? unless you were talking about an even older rework ?

Yeah, his current kit is a complete rework from his original - basically only his Iron Staff is the same ability. The three free revives he gets from his passive are an evolution of what his original Defy did. 

20 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

1. subsume gloom again, which starts to get old when every single squish frame has to do this to go on steel path and the result is effectively turning off enemies = boring, I also had todo this on ember and protea and it's kinda why I am playing those frames less now.

Gloom is definitely one of the most powerful abilities in the Helminth, especially for survivability ones, and also one of the less exciting. I've used Ember that way myself. Resisting the urge to get sidetracked on Protea though, I use Molt as her 4 and I don't think of her as squishy at all.

23 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

you got to admit at least that soundquake is trash as a damage ability ? you cast that on steel path it will do nothing to the enemies and unaugmented is pretty much just a death sentence.

she has 2 builds, sonar and silence,sonar is really good against anything it will apply to which isn't most bosses, I at least enjoy supporting the team giving them a damage boost, her silence execute builds are kinda of fun but silence is a subsume so you could technically play that on rhino now and not have to worry about taking damage if someone escapes the silence effect.

pretty much what you said, her 1 is typical old warframe and 4 is garbage on top of that, I figured putting survivability on her 4 may at least bring her to a slightly better place, it don't necessary have to be flat immunity having her ultimate charge shields and generated overshields would add depth to her style and put the ultimate in rotation while making her more usable in harder level content like steel path and maybe even solo stuff

(because it isn't doing anything as a damage aoe)

Makes sense. I think she probably needs to get the kind of attention Zephyr got. Like, I used to lump them together a bit as frames that nobody used despite their having one decent ability, because they didn't have the kit to support it otherwise. Now I have to remind myself that Zephyr is good actually, despite the fact that I occasionally play her. 

I like the idea of her 4 building overshields - sounds a bit like Mag's Crush. That'd definitely be the more interesting route than invulnerability. Throw Cascadia Overcharge on her secondary to turn around and use that overshield to drop a bunch of crit on all those Sonar hotspots.

[Raarsi]

I'm thinking something more like Soundquake giving bonus blast damage on weapon attacks to all allies for the duration of the ability and maybe a few seconds after based on ability duration.

Banshee's always had the factor of unique offensive support, and I feel like that needs to continue on with her.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

18 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

you will have to tell me how the old one was different ? defy? looks the same to me ? unless you were talking about an even older rework or something else?

The Wukong before he became the most popular warframe. He became the most popular warframe at the result of DE changing him with the their reason being "making him more fun", said so by the dev team themself.

The change was so successful that theyre trying to nerf him now because people are enjoying him so much that hes become sus lol

18 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

you got to admit at least that soundquake is weak purely as a damage ability ? you cast that on steel path it will do nothing to the enemies and unaugmented is pretty much just a death sentence.

Yeah but like im saying, i dont see any fun coming from using it for invincibility. The ability itself is already quite lame to use, the invincibility just makes sure im extra unkillable while doing the lame thing.

Its just not working for me, she needs something else to create more satisfying moments when using her 4th.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

12 hours ago, Raarsi said:

I'm thinking something more like Soundquake giving bonus blast damage on weapon attacks to all allies for the duration of the ability and maybe a few seconds after based on ability duration.

Banshee's always had the factor of unique offensive support, and I feel like that needs to continue on with her.

I like the direction this is going, or maybe she can turn the sound of the weapon and impact of bullets into damage, creating a sort of AoE effect that we know everyone loves

[_Anise_]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

The change was so successful that theyre trying to nerf him now because people are enjoying him so much that hes become sus lol

that part I know, a friend that mains wisp and has little interest in any other frame even got Wukong for the single purpose of afk farming, I even set him up to with an aoe gun to try a while back and it was stupid that I could top the damage with little effort.

6 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

The ability itself is already quite lame to use

looking at recent "reworks" and impression from other people and stuff I have seen Pablo talk about on stream, I can't see them EVER changing the core of what ability does to something more interesting, and I paraphrase... there could 50 players that still load up banshee, jump into a level < 30 defense mission, spam energy pizzas and aoe down the map and we don't want to take that away from them.

so If they did anything it would have to be something that didn't really impact the core of that the ability currently does.

I wouldn't mind it if the damage type changed based on energy color or chose a damage type from your elemental mods on primary or melee weapon but I actually think they don't want this to be an AOE damage skill

as I mentioned above it could maybe make overshileds so it could fit into the rotation occasionally ? which dosn't make you immortal but limits your survivability to doing it at the right time and micro managing energy.

also a simple synergy may work, something like targets effected by sonar take significantly more damage from quake with quake not triggering sonar to prevent aoe afking

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I can't see them EVER changing the core of what ability does to something more interesting

Oh no im not talking about changing it completely, i think the ability looks cool, its just the effects of the ability arent delivering anything satisfying, as you pointed out the damage is very poor, its just a cc ability that isnt too impressive.

So Im saying we need ideas like

On 2022-09-30 at 1:22 AM, Raarsi said:

I'm thinking something more like Soundquake giving bonus blast damage on weapon attacks

And

13 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

 maybe she can turn the sound of the weapon and impact of bullets into damage, creating a sort of AoE effect that we know everyone loves

Things that create more satisfying moments (aka fun)

 

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

as I mentioned above it could maybe make overshileds so it could fit into the rotation occasionally ?

This is better, just could be something a bit more unique. Volt already has an aug lettting generate overshields for his ult.

But yea, that idea is better though, its less op and offers more room for engaging scenarios like if you lose your over shields you may want to move and deal with the threat(s).

 

[Venefik]

 Her 4th could be duration based (and no longer a sitting duck channel, for the love of sound) and create a zone that could be periodically blasted by a powerful sound wave. Every X seconds (inversely affected by power strength, so more strength = the ability triggers more frequently over the duration) a powerful sound wave will be released on the selected spot, staggering enemies inside of it and instantly destroying any enemy projectile within it's radius. The frequency (ba dum ts) can have a cap, so it will truly be periodically for some breathing room and decent survivability, while not transforming her into a defence frame. The sound blast could last for about 1 or 2 seconds, lasting long enough to destroy a good amount of enemy ranged attacks, but that duration would not be affected by mods. During this brief second(s), it could also block hitscan attacks (hinds, gorgons, etc) from entering it's radius. This is my dream Sound Quake.

 But if I'm honest, any changes that make the ability even usable would be nice too. It is currently the most obvious candidate to replace, which I proudly do so with Warcry. To make her a true Banshee/Siren The slow kinda helps avoid damage.

 The augment could then be kept as is, if conserving current builds is an important thing. Though I honestly think that making abilities useful regardless of level should be more important than keeping nichy-cheesy builds alive.

 

[crazywolfpusher]

Channeled abilities are just bad at higher levels were you need to keep moving, or you die. And it's not like you can find windows of time to cast your stuff freely, especially when aura eximus spawn right in your face.

So either give dmg immunity, big damage reduction during cast time or don't make it channeled at all.

 

 

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Me personally I think Banshee could use a rework or a revisit, I see her as a stealth frame and she could have the potential to be a good one.

I have some improvements that would fit that theme.

Banshee:

Spoiler

NEW Passive: Depending on the level of noise in the environment will determine the weapons and abilities performance.

·       There is a sound indicator showing the volume level of noise.

·       If there is no sound, weapons will be silenced.

·       If there is noise in the environment, her ability strength will increase based on the level of noise.

·       Sounds that Banshee makes does not add to the volume gauge.

 

1st ability:

·       Enemies hit will receive a 30% slower knockdown recovery.

·       Enemies that hit a hard surface will take more damage.

·       It can reflect projectile weapons back at enemies.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Can break breakable objects.

 

2nd ability:

·       Can be used on the move.

·       (Synergy) Enemies affected take increase damage from her 1st and 4th ability.

 

3rd ability:

·       Enemies will notice you within a 10m of their vision.

·       Enemies will have a slower reaction time when noticing you (if you stand in front of them it will take them 3 seconds until they react to your presents)

·       If you hold the ability, you can control how far the ability reaches based on how much range it has.

·       Show the radius of the ability.

·       Put an indicator above enemies’ head to show how quickly they will be alerted by seeing you. (like stealth games)

·       If enemies are alerted, casting this ability will revert them back to being un-alerted however they will still be alerted if the alarms are on or if you are in their sights.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Remove muffled sound.

·       (Synergy) If you use after casting the 2nd ability, you can see enemies through walls. It will also give you 4.0 punch-through on weapons. (can be increased by strength mods)

 

4th Ability:

·       Enemies will be suspended in the air.

·       After being cast, you can now move around while active.

·       It drains 6 energy a second.

·       After deactivation, enemies will have their damage reduced by 80%.

·       Can break breakable objects.

·       (Synergy) because this makes continues noise, the volume gauge will be at its highest as long as the ability is active.