It's super weird that there's such heavy credit and endo drops in all the late game stuff.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I remember hurting for endo bad when I was new.  There's just straight up no where to farm it in the really early game, and it's still difficult even once you have a bit of experience because...   You need the endo to get the strength to do the mid-game content that drops better amounts of endo.  Credits are similar, unless you just love running Index on repeat.  

But then at a certain point, when you've been grinding forever and have a bunch of stuff and a bunch of strength and start to have excess credits and endo, BAM.  Oh, you're at end game now?  All the way at the content you have to do the rest of the game just to access?  Cool.  Here's gobs of that stuff you really needed before, but don't anymore.  

Railjack, super high credit drops just automatically at end of mission.  Endo pours out of everything in those missions.  Zariman?  Oh, here's 4k endo for running that bounty that took all of 5 minutes.  What do you mean all the mods you'll ever use in a build are maxed and you're sitting on a pile of endo and credits?  You don't want 50% of the drops from every drop rotation on void cascade to be credits?  

I'm not exactly wanting to complain about the endo drops late game.  The credits yes.  The idea of credit rewards this late in the game needs to die in a fire.  But why couldn't some of this love go to the missions that actually get played by players that need it?  I don't need a 4k endo drop.  My MR 6 clanmate probably does.  I do not.

And before anyone yells at me about wanting better drop tables in lower level content:  Most of the base starchart missions don't even have a drop table.  

[TheRealDestian]

/signed

It still sucks trying to save enough credits to boost mods as a newer player...

[cute_moth.npc]

This is so that you can scalp Endo starved Mr 6 players like your clanmate for Plat by selling them fully maxed mods!

Yes the credits suck. Basically we have credit making game modes, they're like 10x more effective. I will go play that for credits ^^;

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I've been playing for awhile and never had more than 150k endo.

Ultra elites posting pictures of 100 ayatan sculptures and 2 million endo probably tried to make it seem like that was normal, but it's not. 

Endo is very much needed by a lot of people. 

Doing 6 to 12 hour runs in this game really isn't worth it.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

This is so that you can scalp Endo starved Mr 6 players like your clanmate for Plat by selling them fully maxed mods!

Yes the credits suck. Basically we have credit making game modes, they're like 10x more effective. I will go play that for credits ^^;

Even just railjack missions drop a ton of credits.  Earth missions, which are super easy, drop 30k-45k.  It goes up to 150k for some veil missions.  But those aren't new player friendly missions.  Like sure, it's fun to watch the credits and endo pile up, but I don't need them.

And I would never lol.  I'd take a clanmate endo farming and carry them before scalping someone.

[cute_moth.npc]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

And I would never lol.  I'd take a clanmate endo farming and carry them before scalping someone.

That's fair you have a good heart! We definitely have so much stuff like Index, Railjack and Profit Taker that I don't know why the credit rewards exist, they're sort of like "you lose!" When you get one as a reward -_-

P.S. when crossplay comes out and we can trade keep your little Tenno away from me because I would love to help set them up with some primed r10s.. for a price..

I can't help it I don't know what else to do with all of this Endo!

 

[Drachnyn]

I think a mistake some people potentially fall into is upgrading their mods to max rank right away. The power mods give us is far above what is needed to clear a lot of content, including those types of content that then give good endo and credit drops.

Part of this situation is that if played heavily in previous times, you got far quicker access to the farms of old. Credits were easy to farm if you were already ready to farm profit taker. From there the rich just got richer. Warframe doesnt balance resource costs to the highest earners.

[trst]

Front loading Endo and Credits just devalues the drops later on. As is it's more "rewarding" once players reach specific farms since they then have the option to focus farm or just get more resources in general.

And even if you need the initial investment of Credits and Endo to access said content that investment doesn't encompass all mods. Odds are you won't have things like Galvanized, Primed, or Riven mods once you unlock Index, Rathuum, Railjack, or whatever. There's also all the other niche mods or ones only found in specific later content that'll still need resources. So the farms still have a lot value at that point.

Endo and Credits in general also still retain general value after that point as not all players are going to go into focus farms until they no longer need said resources. Not everyone goes out of their way to run Index or Profit Taker until they have billions of Credits.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

Can you explain why this is even a problem? New players do not even have the grasp of the modding system down after leaving Earth, nor is their damage or defense hurting going into Mars or Venus. If they take the Mars routine, enemy levels do not even jump into the 30s until they hit Uranus or Neptune with the exception of running Survival/Defense missions up to Rotation C on Saturn. Once they hit Neptun they can unlock The Index Endurance which gives them access to a Credit farm. Their best bet early on is to just dissolve their massive library of repeat mods because even brand new, they will likely leave even a 5min mission with 10 of one mod such as Redirection or Steel Fiber. 

 

I didn't have a lot of my mods maxed that had more than three ranks for a very long time starting out new and was able to do T4 Void missions back when we had to craft keys to enter the void and ran 1hr runs with people with me contributing kills just fine, surviving just fine. Heck, my Redirection, Steel Fiber still are not maxed because it isn't really needed from their current rank, or I do slot in my Umbra Steel and Vitality. 

 

Rank 5 Redirection only costs 310 Endo & 15k credits, it gives 240% Shields, Vitality is the same cost and buff. That is more than enough for the Star Chart for even Endurance runs and you're likely leaving Earth itself with more than those totals in resources unless you super blitzed the place to get to the Junction. Most stick around on Earth until they hit Lv30 on their Warframe and Weapons so surely they would have more than enough Endo to get those two mods to even higher ranks, rank up a Serration to Rank 6 which is only 1,260 Endo and 61k Credits with 105% dmg. I know back when I was new I had way more than 91k in Credits leaving Earth. Endo, couldn't place that, been too long. 

 

As someone else said as I was making this post, the issue is going for the max in a mod instead of passing upgrading your mods. For a lot of what you deal with on the Star Chart,  you do not need max mods. Maybe a max Intensify, a max Stretch, and Streamline for your Warframe, but everything else be it damage or defense related like Redirection, Serration, Split Chamber, all of that does not need to be maxed until you're doing like... Sorties and even then, they wouldn't need to be because you're not alone. You got others to assist. 

[Ethorin]

I have 1200 hours in game play time, Loki was my starter.

 

I still need Endo.

 

There isn't a dividing line between "I have no Endo and it's hard to max rank a five rank mod" and "I have all the Endo I could ever possibly need", there is a gradient and despite what a lot of people seem to think, most of the population is somewhere in that gradient. And frankly, a similar thing can be said of credits unless you specifically enjoy Index or Profit Taker, credits being available in non dedicated modes is a large part of NOT needing to constantly farm for credits whenever an expense comes up.

[0_The_F00l]

This is a much deeper issue than access to endo and credits (and i agree with the core of the argument made by OP)

Its that there is too much bloat mods in the game,

And it is difficult for a new player to identify which is actually worth investing in unless they ask for help,

The fact that many good mods are low quality (bronze) and many terrible mods are high quality (gold) and mid quality (silver) mods can be either way (not to confuse mod quality with mod drop chance) only makes it worse on what to invest in - and how much,

I feel DE needs to cut down on a lot of bloat , or at least make those mods worth investing in so one doesnt feel bad for wasting endo on them.

i remember in the early days it took me months to max one of my mods (it was serration) i tended to run un maxed mods for a very long time.

 

BUT i will say it is slightly better, bounties are an excellent source of endo (as long as you stick to your level) and i think today i would have managed to max my mods a lot earlier.

[AzureScion]

I don't mind endo since there aren't really any reliable and fast method of farming them (the fastest I know being "WTB ANASA 6PC") but credits.. yeah no. The missions that drop them take roughly the same amount of time to complete with a round of index, but with much much lesser reward. I wouldn't mind them gone from any rewards pool forever (they can stay as mission loot though).

But they gotta have something to pad the reward pool of course, otherwise we'd be getting that shiny new toy in less than an hour and then go to forums complaining about lack of content lol

[ReddyDisco]

Dilute the drops with stuff so it takes longer to get that one thing out of a dozen you want, classic wf

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

1 hour ago, cute_moth.npc said:

That's fair you have a good heart! We definitely have so much stuff like Index, Railjack and Profit Taker that I don't know why the credit rewards exist, they're sort of like "you lose!" When you get one as a reward -_-

P.S. when crossplay comes out and we can trade keep your little Tenno away from me because I would love to help set them up with some primed r10s.. for a price..

Nah, I don't have a good heart.  I have old gamer superstitions.  One of the things I've noticed over the years in games with a loot grind, is a lot of gamers get little superstitions about RNG.  Mine is karma.  I found that when I would help other players a good bit, my RNG seemed a bit better for awhile.  I've gotten enough confirmation bias going that it has been a habit for a looooong time.  That's also where I make my plat.  Target farm something vaulted with my relic stockpile to help someone get a thing without paying for it, and I end up with a set to sell while they get a set to build.  RNG when I need the parts?  Trash.  RNG when I volunteer to farm out a whole vaulted frame for a rando?  Reasonable.

And I actually do talk to the new players that come through my clan about folks in trade chat.  They know they can ask me if they're getting ripped off.

As far as credits being a nill reward...  At least they aren't the Mortuus Should Guard.  If you already have one, that is literally a reward of nothing.  Not even credits because it auto-deletes itself and you can't sell it.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

Much of the newer "late game" content is targeted at players who started more recently and are still hurting for those resources.  My main account shrugs when I see the endo and credits roll in. My second account is nearly at the same place but 10 MR lower and starved for those resources. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

1 hour ago, Ethorin said:

I still need Endo.

Well, you and everyone else in this thread that think I'm crazy can just head on down to the Zariman, because you can get 4k endo really friggin often as your bounty reward for what is probably less than 10 minutes of work.  It just strikes me as odd that after all you have to do to get to the Zariman, you're getting credits and endo as rewards.  I needed those on the way here.  I do not anymore.  I guess I'm still the outlier.

[OfPowerOfWant]

There was a point where lenses were easy to get and people complained and I cringed at a future to come

Now there are even more frames, weapons, amps, necramechs, etc and i'm stuck in bounty hell seething each time i get endo, credits or mods

I have hundreds of thousands of endo and haven't even sold mods since that system changed years ago, not counting railjack pickups that need to be trashed that will give endo

[SneakyErvin]

It is annoying to get the endo and credits as an older player. Especially credits since there are just so many different farming places for them already that are placed midgame and silly effective. And for endo, well we have arbitrations, that I would uhm see as midgame these days, and if that isnt an option, there are always sedna arenas still.

DE could really do a good reward rebalance to make the endo and credits more balanced in the earlier part of the game when they are most needed and slowly phase them out in endgame.

I like what they did back when disruption was added, something similar would be a good option for endgame. Where you might have 1 optional node that rewards credits and endo so you can go there to farm it if you still need it at endgame, with other drops having a lower chance to drop compared to the other nodes. That would give players a choice and cater better to the wide variety of where players are at in progression these days.

Again I seem to agree with you Chubby, we are really screwing the world over today!

[Hypernaut1]

You play too much. If you dont grinf till your eyes bleed, then you'll have just enough of everything. They could put caps on things, but most layers wouldnt like that.

[YouDontCB_87]

For credit there is decent place for new player I always recommend in QnA chart, which is Ceres > Gabii, go into mission and leave every 5 mins and they get 20k bonus. PS: Ceres drop Orokin Cell as well, so win-win I guess.

Whereas for Endo, all the grinding spots I can think of is not newbie friendly at all, unless they got players to carry them.

Edit: It make sense heavy credit & endo drop in late game, but way to get endo itself in early game is terrible.

[Achlevius]

A Primed Mod (which are all 10 ranks, AFAICT) costs almost 2 million credits and 41K endo.  A 10-rank Rare / Galvanized mod costs about 1.5 million credits and over 30K endo.

A quick run of a Skirmish or Exterminate on Railjack with a decent group will get you about 50K credits and 500 endo in about 10 minutes (including loading times and such).

Do that math. 😐

[awave]

I dunno. I still have plenty of mods that I don't have the endo to max, and I'm LR2. I'm starving for endo. I'm never annoyed with surplus anyways-it's just there. There's no need for maxed Prime mods when navigating the Star Chart, so I'm not convinced there needs to be a better source of endo for low-MR players either. Perhaps you've grinded your way into having more than you need from a good endo source, or maybe you haven't collected all Prime mods yet? Also more credits from missions means less purchasing of boosters and farming Index, which is a relief. You have a problem I wish I had.

[EdinaMonsoon]

i have enough endo and treasures to melt just incase but credits are a b*tch

1000's of endo as a reward is nice but a 3000 credit cache? ma'am... it's around 50k endo and 2 MILLION credits to max a legendary mod. i need more sources of 100s of thousands of credits than i do 1000s of endo

my main choices are index and profit taker but the high endo rewards are in a lot of places where i can hit 2 birds with one stone

[(NSW)BenHiraga]

4 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

We definitely have so much stuff like Index, Railjack and Profit Taker that I don't know why the credit rewards exist, they're sort of like "you lose!"

Maybe it's just because I'm on Switch, but it feels like there's never anyone running Index. And I try to avoid most solo content outside of quests because I think it's less interesting to play alone.

[Achlevius]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)BenHiraga said:

Maybe it's just because I'm on Switch, but it feels like there's never anyone running Index.

I used to think this as well, as I could never get a group when playing it Public.  But I found there's almost always a group doing Index in Recruiting Chat, so that might be your best bet.