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Veilbreaker: Revenant Prime: Hotfix 32.0.9


[DE]Megan
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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

PHANTASMA PRIME

Phantasma Prime is burnished with deadly force. In Revenant’s hands, it has increased magazine capacity. The might of its irradiated plasma is reminiscent of the fearsome Eidolon.

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nova’s Neutron Star Augment Changes: 

  • Added line of sight (LOS) requirement to its AOE explosions and for the Stars to find targets, ignored for the first 5 meters

  • Reduced explosion radius from 16m to 8m. 

    • After Neutron Star’s damage and range was buffed in the Veilbreaker update, the Augment's usage increased by over 67 times and climbing. Because of the Helminth system, this Augment was being used more than Nova herself. Changing the Augment to Heat damage while also releasing Archon Vitality resulted in higher damage than anticipated (multiplied by squadmates’ damage boosts), and the auto-seeking nature made Neutron Star far better at room clearing than other Helminth radial damage abilities like Thermal Sunder. We have a history of encouraging engagement with the enemy instead of automation, so LOS changes seemed the most important factor to address, while still letting it maintain the new high damage features.

So let me get this straight, you nerf AoE weapons (which imo i agree with), then a few weeks later you make a prime AoE weapon...

Then you nerf a frame thats been almost dead for years... because you buffed it and people liked the buff?

No offence, but what the heck is going on over at DE headquarters?

Edited by Joezone619
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Hello DE.

There is bug for Khal mission that when all cashes are find it won't finish the challange  and i can see that it is 4/4 collected, tried multiple times but it just wont work.

Please fix this bug!

THANKS.

Edited by Zarko_MKD
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3 minutes ago, YuriKeller said:

And we are moving off midnight UTC ... why? Standardization is not just for fun, you know?

Daylight savings time is a nuisance:

  • Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)  is UTC-4
  • Eastern Standard Time (EST) is UTC-5

UTC midnight is the immutable truth.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nova’s Neutron Star Augment Changes:

didn't use it but rip, atleast there is still sunder and smite

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed damage types from equipped weapons applying to Mag’s Shards while she is standing in a zone created by Residual Arcanes. 

  • The Arcane effects apply only to weapons, her Shards will only apply Slash damage as intended while in these zones

riiip don't the residual arcanes apply to a bunch of other abilities though? it's like one of the best reasons to use them

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Atlas’ Landslide ability triggering Archon Mod effects. 

holy RIP but it counts as an ability in the first place??? these ability types are so limited and limit builds as is, they should just get the exalted weapon treatment already

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixes towards Styanax’s Final Stand projectile explosions damaging enemies through walls. 

  • This ability already had a line of sight requirement, but sometimes the javelins would manage to pierce parts of the level

rip moment. honestly abilities just shouldn't have either or atleast not against enemies, even with the nerfs aoe weapons are still more powerful and viable than aoe abilities despite the range advantage

edit: lol rainy already beat me to it 8 posts above but it can't be good if atleast 2 different people have the exact same confused reaction about these changes?

Edited by cococciolo
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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:
  • Nova’s Neutron Star Augment Changes: 

    • Added line of sight (LOS) requirement to its AOE explosions and for the Stars to find targets, ignored for the first 5 meters

    • Reduced explosion radius from 16m to 8m. 

      • After Neutron Star’s damage and range was buffed in the Veilbreaker update, the Augment's usage increased by over 67 times and climbing. Because of the Helminth system, this Augment was being used more than Nova herself. Changing the Augment to Heat damage while also releasing Archon Vitality resulted in higher damage than anticipated (multiplied by squadmates’ damage boosts), and the auto-seeking nature made Neutron Star far better at room clearing than other Helminth radial damage abilities like Thermal Sunder. We have a history of encouraging engagement with the enemy instead of automation, so LOS changes seemed the most important factor to address, while still letting it maintain the new high damage features.

Nerfing neutron star after it's been good for 2 minutes but leaving thermal sunder intact after it's been way more oppressive than the aoe weapons you nerfed for 2 years is the joke of the century.

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Welp, time to join in. 

This being altered to prevent over-usage is one of the worst examples of over-use I've seen. 

Completely gutting an ability "to mitigate usage on the helminth and to make players use Nova more" is not a reason to nerf the entire ability outright. 

Nova players, and there are a truck-load of them out there, do not mod her for the usage of her Null Star augment for general use. Normal Nova builds revolve around having absolutely NO RANGE as they focus moreover on their duration to maximize her 4's timer due to it NOT scaling with range

The soul purpose for us to use the helminth system is to experiment with different abilities and see how well they work on other frames and if they can be made applicable to their playstyle, and then add more zest to our content as we play. 

Completely undermining the community due to a subset of players who take note from content creators about a build is killing our fun. I can guarantee you, someone on Youtube spread the word about this, and then it gets the "shot heard around the world" treatment, with everyone using it. An example of this was when Sevagoth came out, and everyone started using Gloom on every frame under the godforsaken sun (Spoiler alert, they still use it). This occurs for every new sort of 'meta' that gets released or found out THROUGH THE USAGE OF THE HELMINTH

It's like bad-mouthing the kid who was told they can take a cookie from the jar, only to get yelled at not even seconds of dipping their hand in there by their other parental figure. 

I'm not even going to get into the LOS check, but please reconsider about future changes to helminth abilities. This would have been prevented had you made Null Star's explosive radius reduced in the helminth system ON RELEASE years back. 
 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nova’s Neutron Star Augment Changes: 

  • Added line of sight (LOS) requirement to its AOE explosions and for the Stars to find targets, ignored for the first 5 meters

  • Reduced explosion radius from 16m to 8m. 

    • After Neutron Star’s damage and range was buffed in the Veilbreaker update, the Augment's usage increased by over 67 times and climbing. Because of the Helminth system, this Augment was being used more than Nova herself. Changing the Augment to Heat damage while also releasing Archon Vitality resulted in higher damage than anticipated (multiplied by squadmates’ damage boosts), and the auto-seeking nature made Neutron Star far better at room clearing than other Helminth radial damage abilities like Thermal Sunder. We have a history of encouraging engagement with the enemy instead of automation, so LOS changes seemed the most important factor to address, while still letting it maintain the new high damage features.

 

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so you completely ruined neutron star now? just why do you keep doing it? why do you keep breaking anything we find good enough to be worth using? you think it's easy to find something strong and keep it secret so you don't nerf? c'mon, not cool DE, very not cool. 

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2 hours ago, illumikirua said:

Im so #*!%ing angry - im semi-new to the game and played it really hard last couple Months and NEARLY EVERYTHING i built until now got nerfed at some point (gonna give same review on Steam in hope that theyll stop nerfing 0STARS!!!!!!).

1.) first i invested alot of time and resources for Kuva Bramma 60% Toxin with a good Riven -> NERFS

1 1/2.) hate the ammo nerf on my other weapons too

2.) built Styanax -> NERFS couple of days later

3.) with Archon mod built the nice null star augment volt setup for daily eso focus farm -> NERFS

I REALLY like the game but the disappointment is getting bigger with every update tbh i dont even want to build nice setups anymore because im scared theyll just nerfed it again and made me waste 10s to 100s of hours.

I'm not one to sugar coat things so quite frankly you're either too new or too stupid to understand why these things happen. AoE weapons have been an 'issue' for a long time now, likely far longer then you've been playing and anyone who took a real look at how DE tries to keep things knew it was coming, doesn't change the fact the weapons are still mostly viable, you just don't get to No Brain your way through missions with them like you used to be able too. I can't say I agree with the Ammo changes as it's negatively impacted a few too many weapon/weapon types but that requires a much deeper look then I'm doing here. 

As for the 'new' elements, new things get tweaked all the damn time, a very common rule for this game is early adopters rarely come out ahead. It's pretty much always the case and likely always will be as their internal testing for in game balance is basically non existent(if it exists at all). Never expect those 'hot builds' that content creators to push to be viable for long as 9/10 times it's something that's taking advantage of a bug/unintentional interaction/general oversight on the part of DE. Some creators are kind/smart/etc enough to point this out and will prewarn about the viability of such builds in he long term, others don't care or got it from another creator and just want to exploit it for views/clickbait. 

My suggestion is to learn the game, build VIABLE HONEST setups and stop relying on creator tricks and exploits to try to cheese things. The only loss of power I've felt in the last many updates was the AoE nerf that basically turned my Nightwatch Napalm fun into little more then a fireworks show(which I still don't mind but get to use far less).

(And to the general masses, yes I'm well aware there are several long standing builds/strategies based around certain interactions that fall within the bounds of 'exploits', things that sooner or later most of us likely expect DE to patch/'fix' but those require a bit more work and planning then some of the more recent 'trick builds')

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1 hour ago, YuriKeller said:

And we are moving off midnight UTC ... why? Standardization is not just for fun, you know?

Look here, the Devs at DE are not perfect. They can't be expected to do everything the way you expect. Just take what they say in stride and use the tools that are available.

This website has be constructed by a dedicated member of the community. It will tell you exactly what you want to know.

https://warframestreams.lol/

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4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nova’s Neutron Star Augment Changes: 

  • Added line of sight (LOS) requirement to its AOE explosions and for the Stars to find targets, ignored for the first 5 meters

  • Reduced explosion radius from 16m to 8m. 

Cool, straight to the unused garbage bin this goes. Nova herself won't use it because it does the exact opposite of what she wants (gives her comparatively annoying DR ability more range, decreasing its effectiveness for pathetic damage) and now no one else will use it (not even Nova herself for a niche, but fun, build) because Thermal Sunder exists and doesn't take up a mod slot. Was fun while it lasted. 

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4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nova’s Neutron Star Augment Changes: 

  • Added line of sight (LOS) requirement to its AOE explosions and for the Stars to find targets, ignored for the first 5 meters

  • Reduced explosion radius from 16m to 8m. 

    • After Neutron Star’s damage and range was buffed in the Veilbreaker update, the Augment's usage increased by over 67 times and climbing. Because of the Helminth system, this Augment was being used more than Nova herself. Changing the Augment to Heat damage while also releasing Archon Vitality resulted in higher damage than anticipated (multiplied by squadmates’ damage boosts), and the auto-seeking nature made Neutron Star far better at room clearing than other Helminth radial damage abilities like Thermal Sunder. We have a history of encouraging engagement with the enemy instead of automation, so LOS changes seemed the most important factor to address, while still letting it maintain the new high damage features.

Does the dev team truly not understand the utility they provided and now taken away? Did DE improve Neutron Star and seriously think, "people probably won't recognize Nova's Neutron Star augment anyway?" The September change that made her helminth good was great. It only lasted 4 weeks. I hate this about DE's design process. It is so thoughtless that it would seem impulsive.

Here's my PoV. DE wants Nova to be played more, recognizes that the augment mod they made for her is S#&$. They rework it so that it is good. Players recognize that they've drastically improved her augment and proceed to use it, because it was never any good before then. DE is now like, "Oops, we #*!%ed up, timed to rework her augment again."  The whole process feels like I'm being baited. 
I particularly hate it that this quote has an attached rational, as if the explanation for this quasi-reversal is any good. "...Resulted in higher damage than anticipated... better at room cleaing than other Helminth radial damage abilities like Thermal Sunder." DE dev team admits to being thoughtless. This incompetence is the theme of DE design. SO What if it's better than Thermal Sunder? So in DE's eyes, Neutron Star can't be allowed to be better than their other baby, Thermal Sunder. DE has favorites that they'd like to protect, keep them in greater use, and play. Lol what kind of discrimination is that? 

With Neutron Star, Nova suddenly had relevance among Saryn and Volt players. I'm going to pretend that Gara was like, "Good Job, Nova. You've done what I could not." But now, "you poor thing, the line-of-sight bug has bitten you." 

 

DE cannot commit themselves to only improving their creation. They Won't do it. Everytime they make something "unintentionally" or "intentionally" good, I can expect that it simply won't last. I can't be excited about anything coming to the game fixes/reworks/new-content. This makes me hate DE. It makes me want to be rude and disrespectful to the dev team. 

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5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixes

  • Fixed damage types from equipped weapons applying to Mag’s Shards while she is standing in a zone created by Residual Arcanes. 

    • The Arcane effects apply only to weapons, her Shards will only apply Slash damage as intended while in these zones. 

I hate to break it to you, but Theorem Demulcent applies to a ton of abilities besides this.

But please God don't fix it; scaling some of those abilities with it is the only way that arcane ever sees any use at all.

e: Also please god fix the bug where the stacks of Theorem arcanes stops visually refreshing on your bar after hitting max stacks.

Edited by ShogunGunshow
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1 hour ago, LucianDeRomeo said:

I'm not one to sugar coat things so quite frankly you're either too new or too stupid to understand why these things happen.

FU and this condescending comment towards another player.

1 hour ago, LucianDeRomeo said:

... likely far longer then you've been playing and anyone who took a real look...

The elitism

1 hour ago, LucianDeRomeo said:

As for the 'new' elements, new things get tweaked all the damn time, a very common rule for this game is early adopters rarely come out ahead. It's pretty much always the case and likely always will be as their internal testing for in game balance is basically non existent(if it exists at all). Never expect those 'hot builds' that content creators to push to be viable for long as 9/10 times it's something that's taking advantage of a bug/unintentional interaction/general oversight on the part of DE.

You suggest that all players are supposed to be okay with this? I would also definitely describe DE's development/internal-testing to be thoughtless. It's incredibly unfortunate that we can't expect anything to new to be good and stay that way. That's not okay. This mode of operation that DE trends in - well - it needs to be condemned by the community.
I'm also pretty sure that your 90% statistic is something you pulled out of thin air. So I don't appreciate the lack of due diligence you put into responding to your fellow player. 
 

1 hour ago, LucianDeRomeo said:

My suggestion is to learn the game, build VIABLE HONEST setups and stop relying on creator tricks and exploits to try to cheese things.

A new player cannot know what your "VIABLE HONEST setups" are; and, this comment indicates that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way you now approach playing this game. It's a learned mechanism that DE has imposed on us. But, good for you for avoiding DE's trap.

The Best thing a developer can do when making their game is to give players the agency and resources to be clever. Accomplishing this design strategy is attractive to all players, so when they make something like the Kuva Bramma, it's great. When they then decide to gimp it, then it sucks. Everyone should rightful be angry with DE. They gave us many great things and decided to take them away and give us something lesser than equal value. 

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5 hours ago, RobWasHere said:

Poor Neutron Star...seems giving it Harrow with max range and carpal tunneling through ESO/Io defence was a mistake.

Harrow was my new focus farm frame for less than 28 days. RIP
edit: Had a +200% Ability range invigoration. "What's Nuking the map?" "Mostly good vibes"

Edited by _.-Toscany-._
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4 hours ago, dimerapis said:

Neutron Star was buffed to improve QOL. You have lost sight of the original purpose in an effort to clean up the immediate problem. There is no need to adopt it if it performs like this; it does not improve QOL at all. What on earth do you want? Please make more careful adjustments.

I don't think that this comment voices its frustration well enough. "DE, you thoughtless backstabbers, commit to the things you make good! No taksie-backsies!" 

I stand with this player. What the hell, DE? Please be more considerate.

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6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nova’s Neutron Star Augment

That was far better than an affinity booster, and that was the true an only problem. now we go back to the so called "engaging" method aka saryn/mirage/volt. I had so much fun with harrow + neutron strar + madurai, watching all the timers to refresh the buffs, even when madurai Power Transfer fail to proc. obvously, your only agenda is to keep the game progresssion slow, by timed gameplay like Armageddon, "change of plan!" in capture, and when players find a way to speed up the farm, like for exemple plague star, you call it a bug, and you prefer cancel the annual edition because you do not have the ressources to "fix" it (aka make it slower). It's sad to be you DE. No one is fooled by your corporate explanation for this nerf, and personally, I feel insulted.

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4 hours ago, Halo said:

Welp, time to join in. 

This being altered to prevent over-usage is one of the worst examples of over-use I've seen. 

Completely gutting an ability "to mitigate usage on the helminth and to make players use Nova more" is not a reason to nerf the entire ability outright. 

Nova players, and there are a truck-load of them out there, do not mod her for the usage of her Null Star augment for general use. Normal Nova builds revolve around having absolutely NO RANGE as they focus moreover on their duration to maximize her 4's timer due to it NOT scaling with range

The soul purpose for us to use the helminth system is to experiment with different abilities and see how well they work on other frames and if they can be made applicable to their playstyle, and then add more zest to our content as we play. 

Completely undermining the community due to a subset of players who take note from content creators about a build is killing our fun. I can guarantee you, someone on Youtube spread the word about this, and then it gets the "shot heard around the world" treatment, with everyone using it. An example of this was when Sevagoth came out, and everyone started using Gloom on every frame under the godforsaken sun (Spoiler alert, they still use it). This occurs for every new sort of 'meta' that gets released or found out THROUGH THE USAGE OF THE HELMINTH

It's like bad-mouthing the kid who was told they can take a cookie from the jar, only to get yelled at not even seconds of dipping their hand in there by their other parental figure. 

I'm not even going to get into the LOS check, but please reconsider about future changes to helminth abilities. This would have been prevented had you made Null Star's explosive radius reduced in the helminth system ON RELEASE years back. 
 

 

I personally find the nerf to be quite rational. Even with the change, it's still stronger than the pre-Veil breaker version with doubled damage and a better status effect. Regardless of modding for range, 8m is still a good range AOE damage considered. Given DE's stance on changing AOE so that enemies aren't dying 5 tiles away, the LoS requirement is appropriate. Imagine if you could shoot little bramma bomblets (w/ reduced damage) through walls, that would be insane, and was exactly the situation with neutron star (with at base a 16m explosion mind you). It's clear that DE overshot with buffing the augment, especially with the addition of Archon Vitality in the same patch. All of this is to say that the augment is not dead, not by a long shot.

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2 minutes ago, RaynerJ said:

I personally find the nerf to be quite rational. Even with the change, it's still stronger than the pre-Veil breaker version with doubled damage and a better status effect. Regardless of modding for range, 8m is still a good range AOE damage considered. Given DE's stance on changing AOE so that enemies aren't dying 5 tiles away, the LoS requirement is appropriate. Imagine if you could shoot little bramma bomblets (w/ reduced damage) through walls, that would be insane, and was exactly the situation with neutron star (with at base a 16m explosion mind you). It's clear that DE overshot with buffing the augment, especially with the addition of Archon Vitality in the same patch. All of this is to say that the augment is not dead, not by a long shot.

True, but it loses its universal crate-breaker usage for all frames with that range hit. 

If they cut the damage in half and mitigated the ability being duration-scaled, then I would accept a nerf on it, but gutting it whole sale was not it. 

Bad enough Nova players don't even mod for this thing in general, so now everyone who uses her is effected.

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