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Make the Tigris great again (shotgun status suggestions because it isn't complex enough already, right?)


OgreEye

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This is a really, really easy fix that will probably still be hard to implement somehow. Generally speaking, shotguns are terrible for damage DoTs, because their status chance is split across pellets, as well as the damage. while this works just fine for proc-centric statuses, slash that ain't from HUMU is godawful because of this. As such, I suggest that for all status DoTs for weapons with innate multishot, the damage value the DoT uses is that of the entire innate multishot, not just the pellet that procs. for example:
if a normal weapon were to have a status chance of 20% and a damage of 100, there'd be a 20% chance of proc'ing a DoT based off of 100 damage. If the same weapon was a shotgun with an innate multishot of 5, it would be 100 damage, 20 per pellet, and have a 4% chance of proc'ing a DoT based off of... 20 damage. So, even though you're as likely to proc overall, it's much, much weaker. Under this change, the latter weapon would instead have a 4% chance per pellet of proc'ing a DoT based off of 100 damage, thus making it work as effectively as weapons without innate MS, and not changing how things like corrosive or viral work.

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This is a fundamental problem with status that also applies to fire rate. Different status effects scale off of different factors (status chance, damage, fire rate, and multishot), this is terrible design that has held back status as a mechanic for years.

 

That said, shotgun status math makes sense. In all other cases status chance is a representation of the probability for an instance of damage to inflict a status proc. That shouldn't be arbitrarily changed for shotguns. The problem with a weapon like Tigris Prime is that DE didn't bother to spend the 15 minutes to actually re-balance the stats of shotguns after the rework to how their status works. 

 

As a reminder, when shotgun status was changed DE applied a single formula to all shotguns, that being...

(New Status Chance) = (Old Status Chance) * 4 / (Base Multishot)

This basically punished weapons with high multi-shot. Tigris Prime had an 'upgrade' over Tigris by having more multishot, but due to this formula that upgrade led to the weapon getting hit harder by this change. This also is why Exergis did just fine as it has a base multishot of only 3 (versus Tigris Prime's 8). 

It wouldn't have been difficult to do some quick testing and fine a new status chance for every shotgun, even without testing it would have been much better to follow intuition over an inherently flawed formula. Status as a core mechanic needs a complete overhaul to make it a fair/consistent system but nobody likes to talk about math-driven mechanics.

 

TL;DR: Shotgun status makes sense. The problem you have is that DE poorly re-balanced the status chance of shotguns when they made shotgun status work in the same way it did everywhere else. 

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4 hours ago, DrBorris said:

TL;DR: Shotgun status makes sense. The problem you have is that DE poorly re-balanced the status chance of shotguns when they made shotgun status work in the same way it did everywhere else. 

Exactly.  I don't think there's a good reason to add a new and shotgun specific layer of complexity to the mechanics when another look at the existing stats will do the  job.    "Do the job" better in some ways, as it wouldn't merely focus on dots.

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I understand what people are getting at when saying shotguns were poorly rebalanced, because that's also true. Just here to say that still doesn't address DoT being based on the damage of one measly pellet, making DoT bad except on a few specific shotguns (slug, pulse, or Exergis), or when using Hunter Munitions.

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Arcana for shotguns this might be the way to go, arcana with multiple stats including increased mod capacity.

Sniper-rifle and shotguns need individual arcana and modifiers, the same for explosive launchers, there are several types of weapons in the primary weapons category.

creating universal modifiers for a primary category is a problem, that's why the AoE weapon class is so problematic affecting all other ammo classes and modifiers.

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On 2022-11-01 at 12:25 PM, (NSW)HedEmpTy said:

I understand what people are getting at when saying shotguns were poorly rebalanced, because that's also true. Just here to say that still doesn't address DoT being based on the damage of one measly pellet, making DoT bad except on a few specific shotguns (slug, pulse, or Exergis), or when using Hunter Munitions.

Better status chance or more pellets equates to more damage for three of the four dots.  For the fourth, gas, it's more damage up to the stack limit.    Unless you're specifically concerned only about the limit on gas, it's hard to see a reason to introduce a new shotgun-only mechanic that's going to be difficult to explain in game and demand more extensive rebalancing. 

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On 2022-11-01 at 3:25 PM, (NSW)HedEmpTy said:

I understand what people are getting at when saying shotguns were poorly rebalanced, because that's also true. Just here to say that still doesn't address DoT being based on the damage of one measly pellet, making DoT bad except on a few specific shotguns (slug, pulse, or Exergis), or when using Hunter Munitions.

That is a fundamental design problem with status as a whole, not a problem with shotguns.

I have ranted for many words as to why that is bad, others have also written up some beefy rework concepts, but at the end of the day talking about status calculations is boring so there will never be a big enough storm for DE to care (even though fixing status could have hugely positive impacts on every part of the game).

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