Devstream 165 Overview

[L3512]

https://youtu.be/cmL-EkW-mW0?t=2419

Hair rework here, also could be tied into drifter facial hair but is a big improvement and looks decent.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

For a Werewolf frame I thought It'd be a given for sure, though I guess Sevagoth has the transform and claw thing going.

Sevagoths Shadow was literally the start of the whole Werewolf frame conversation. Someone asked on Stream if since Sev has an ability that completely changes the thing you’re controlling, does that open up the opportunity for a werewolf frame. And Scott said possibly.

Now here we are completely disconnected from that original idea.

 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Now here we are completely disconnected from that original idea.

Probably to much work because deadlines. 

 

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

https://youtu.be/cmL-EkW-mW0?t=2419

Hair rework here, also could be tied into drifter facial hair but is a big improvement and looks decent.

I mean a little protea deluxe fur could work. 
 

 

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

werewolf frame

A transforming frame would be neat but to be fair we haven’t seen any abilities yet. 

[Sziklamester]

Thanks Mako the overview I skipped this time to watch the stream due illness and stay in the bed instead. What I think is this stream was a little filler instead of more meaningful something. The things I like in this the actual wolf which is not werewolf nor shaman wolf anymore but a beastmaster. The necramechs on normal missions could given some try but they are clunky on these places and if our warframes stopped by micro map bugs and invisible edges then these monstrocities will do even more. Also the only place where warframes can shine is missions which only focuses on them. 

The proto skins are nice but they are really just skins, not sure how they weren't able to make these instead of delay. The modular archwing and possible old boss rework was not on the table except these two grineer ladies. The Grendel and Yareli changes could be good too because these frames are on the edge of being forgotten.

The self damage never really bothered me except one or two situation when a team mate or your pet jumping front of you and boom. Beyond these I think it is fair I rarely using explosive weapons. The ammo economy could be restored or changed again if they decided to remove self cc becuse the self damage is enough as a punishment.

The Xaku deluxe looks good but probably would not use the skeleton form too often but her (I call her) deluxe looks good and second frame now with face after mirage.

 

The axe of Varuna looks okay but I would like to see more axes, maces, flails and similar items in the game, the sniper rifle is in this case similar to veldt, because it looks a hunting rifle or a "mini quartakk" more than a sniper rifle. Not complaining, just feel this is a strange design choice. For me no problem because I use lex as a sniper too.

[Skoomaseller]

no one talking about the protokol skins, they look sick as #*!%. hopefully some custom sounds for it too, to make it sound like guns from this age.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

There's a difference between not being able to play it and refusing to play it. You can already "actually play it more than 1 time per week", you just don't want to.

And we arent able to actually play it. We can go in there for no rewards, but those rewards are also part of the content, so we cannot actually engage with the content as a whole beyond the first run per week. Maybe I should have used a more dumbed down version of actual, like "for real" or maybe you prefer "for realz!" in this day and age?

If this was a game where the reward was fighting the boss due to outstanding encounter design I wouldnt complain about not getting loot. But lets not kid ourselves, Archons arent exactly ground breaking or even mediocre boss encounters to be enjoyed simply due to their design. Just as adding the corpus vendor fellow to defense wont make it much more interesting either. Right now DE priorities regarding how to "fix" content to be more enjoyable makes it look like they are way out of touch with the game and what most of the community actually wants.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And we arent able to actually play it.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

We can go in there for no rewards

So you can go in there, you just don't want to. I know, dude, we've had this conversation before. And just like last time, idk what to tell you. It's weekly content with weekly rewards, and you get the weekly rewards weekly. Do you expect infinite potatoes for bumrushing the same Alert over and over again? There are some parts of the Veilbreaker grind that ought to be improved, but "I want all the rewards right away" is unreasonable.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

So you can go in there, you just don't want to. I know, dude, we've had this conversation before. And just like last time, idk what to tell you. It's weekly content with weekly rewards, and you get the weekly rewards weekly. Do you expect infinite potatoes for bumrushing the same Alert over and over again? There are some parts of the Veilbreaker grind that ought to be improved, but "I want all the rewards right away" is unreasonable.

Again, read up what the word "actually" means to begin with. Secondly, it isnt about wanting it right away, nor are they comparable to taters. It is silly you even draw those connections when we talk about purely free gearing upgrades. So please, if I may ask, why do you compare it to taters? If we could shell out cash for shards I'd see your line of thought, but right now I see zero thought behind connecting the two.

Also as I said to you previously, what we have is the illusion of sustainable content. However, dragging it out to last years by slapping arbitrary gates on it is not the same as having sustainable content. It will not see a usage number even remotely close to a system that we could grind as we see fit. So it looks more and more like a marketing ploy that they can go out and talk about in a few years as "and people still use it to this day!", or it is a horrible knee jerk hit-the-red-button "solution" based on fear of people using up the content. Which in itself shows horrible detatchment on DEs part regarding their own content which they designed. Since Tau shards are already the only gate they need, and if the content was possible to grind we'd likely not see a guaranteed drop chance for normal shards either, I wouldnt even want them as a guaranteed drop if we can grind them. So they could even keep tau forged as a possible drop from grinding, with a 20% chance to roll if a normal shard manages to drop.

There are just so many different options that they could have chosen which would allow us to revisit the game in an actual way to enjoy it.

Just look at the simple numbers. A year allows us a measly 52 visits, that is something I would have done in 10-15 days if I could grind it, and still come back for more for a couple of more years worth of gated runs. Which also could allow DE to implement more shard types over time to get people back to the content, maybe with new archons aswell. There just isnt a single good reason why it is set up the way it is, or why someone at DE even thought it was a good idea to begin with.

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Secondly, it isnt about wanting it right away, nor are they comparable to taters. It is silly you even draw those connections when we talk about purely free gearing upgrades. So please, if I may ask, why do you compare it to taters?

We're talking about getting a reward multiple times, not the reward itself. Here, let me give you some more examples: do you expect infinite Sortie rewards for bumrushing the same Sortie over and over again? Do you expect infinite Invasion rewards for bumrushing the same Invasion over and over again? Do you expect infinite Razorback rewards for bumrushing the same Razorback over and over again?

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

A year allows us a measly 52 visits, that is something I would have done in 10-15 days if I could grind it, and still come back for more for a couple of more years worth of gated runs.

So you want 5 Shards a day? Where you'd be done with the game's entire roster of frames in a month and a half, and have Tau Shards for the game's entire roster of frames by the summer? And you'd do this for a couple more years even with nowhere to use the rewards you've gotten? What if I grind more than you and get 50 Shards in a day? I'd be done with them in a week. And you're concerned with content sustainability...?

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which also could allow DE to implement more shard types over time to get people back to the content, maybe with new archons aswell. There just isnt a single good reason why it is set up the way it is, or why someone at DE even thought it was a good idea to begin with.

Which could be achieved with things like the ability to change the color of a Shard and Shard Valence. But "I want 5 a day" isn't it. Are you expecting DE to add another Archon to fight and another Shard color every month and a half to keep up with you?

[PublikDomain]

Thank you forums very cool.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Not adding 2 new missions using the new Grineer bosses is a HUGE if not GARGANTUAN missed opportunity.

So now Prison Break is getting EVEN LONGER to complete.

I defend what Kahl's gameplay is supposed to be but expecting 3 missions to last months is madness.

They learned nothing from the launch of the game. When it was just 3 missions and was absolute trash and an absolute joke. The only reason that survived was because people viewed those missions as a "Demo". 

But this is unacceptable. 

I'd gladly wait till 2023 for these bosses to have their own unique missions. 🤦🏾‍♂️ wtf...

Rest of the dev stream was pretty alright. Survival mode with extra steps...not sure how that'll go over. But we'll see.

Also, we now we know Necramechs can work in normal missions. DE just is purposely nitpicking with missions because...... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Not gonna lie. I can already see the backlash this'll get and this time...it's warranted. =/

Makes me quite upset tbh.

[Circle_of_Psi]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Zero_029 said:

Not gonna lie. I can already see the backlash this'll get and this time...it's warranted. =/

Makes me quite upset tbh.

It's a real shame too, but good news is that other games that are coming out next year (Near Jan/Feb IIRC) and by sounds of it they are gonna just Bury this game and to be honest as you said it's warranted.

 

But hey, what can you do, just have to accept and move I guess?

[Surbusken]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

...

With the premise that frames need the same color shard:

 

3 weeks x 5 shards x 1/5 chance = 75 weeks to complete one frame.

That is, assuming you get the right 'rare color', which of course you won't. So 75 weeks is conservative.

 

Then, each year has a minimum of 4 frames coming out. So you will be -75 weeks x 4 frames= -300 weeks behind the grind yearly.

Which is also conservative, when years can have 6 frames coming out... lol.

Not including the 72 years worth of previous frames you owe, right off the bat.

 

Not yet ready to name it the worst grind in world history, with games like Diablo mobile around, but I wouldn't be afraid to either.

I've never see a grind, that actually increases exponentially over time, rather than being completed.

 

Which should be seen in the light of it just being some empty notepad stats, just some numbers in notepad and not actual content.

And also remember anything can be nerfed at any time, so 5 years from now, when the first player comes out with 5x same rare color, it's just getting deleted anyway.

[Psianide73]

32 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

It's a real shame too, but other games that are coming out next year (Near Jan/Feb) are gonna just Bury this game six feet under and to be honest as you said it's warranted and deserved.

Haven't heard that one in a while...

[Cerikus]

17 minutes ago, Psianide73 said:

Haven't heard that one in a while...

Dad? Is warframe going to be dying again, Dad? 😢

[--END--Rikutatis]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Zero_029 said:

Also, we now we know Necramechs can work in normal missions. DE just is purposely nitpicking with missions because...... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I'm gonna take a guess on why: for the exact same reason they have been nerfing AoE launchers. Because voidrig in regular missions will be the new kuva bramma unleashed and an absolute cluster#*!%. We'll get a taste of it in this new survival. Frankly I don't think public missions will be very healthy because of it and plan to solo it. (And yes, I do have a fully decked out voidrig with all the mods)

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Surbusken said:

...

I wasn't including that premise, but yes. If you only wanted one color out of the group it will currently take you 3x longer. If there were 4 colors it would take you 4x longer. But not all frames are the same and will want the same stats, so I don't know how realistic that premise really is.

And yes, like I said before,

On 2022-10-29 at 9:25 AM, PublikDomain said:

There are some parts of the Veilbreaker grind that ought to be improved

The 25-75 week period per frame is absolutely ridiculous. The RNG over that period that will separate players into haves and have-nots is absolutely ridiculous. Both of these ought to be improved.

DE should add a way to convert regular Shards from one color to another, and a way to Valence two regular Shards together to create a Tau Shard. Then filling a frame with 5 regular Shards of any color would take the same 2.5 weeks it does now, but if you wanted to work on a specific frame that wanted specific colors you could do a little extra work to get there. Upgrading those 5 Shards on a frame to 5 Tau Shards would take on average a hair over 2 weeks longer, for 4.55 weeks on average and, even if you were unlucky and got no Tau Shards from your weekly Hunts, 5 weeks. Those timeframes are both totally reasonable when compared to other upgrades like Forma, potatoes, unlockers, Arcanes, Primed Mods, etc.

DE should not just let players bumrush the same final fight over and over again and be done with the system entirely in a few months. That's just as ridiculous as letting players bumrush the same Alert over and over again, or the same Sortie over and over again, or the same Invasion over and over again. Some content doesn't have immediately repeatable rewards and that's both normal and fine.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

We're talking about getting a reward multiple times, not the reward itself. Here, let me give you some more examples: do you expect infinite Sortie rewards for bumrushing the same Sortie over and over again? Do you expect infinite Invasion rewards for bumrushing the same Invasion over and over again? Do you expect infinite Razorback rewards for bumrushing the same Razorback over and over again?

So you want 5 Shards a day? Where you'd be done with the game's entire roster of frames in a month and a half, and have Tau Shards for the game's entire roster of frames by the summer? And you'd do this for a couple more years even with nowhere to use the rewards you've gotten? What if I grind more than you and get 50 Shards in a day? I'd be done with them in a week. And you're concerned with content sustainability...?

Which could be achieved with things like the ability to change the color of a Shard and Shard Valence. But "I want 5 a day" isn't it. Are you expecting DE to add another Archon to fight and another Shard color every month and a half to keep up with you?

Nope because those arent the same type of rewards. Or do you sit here and think I want all of the Archon rewards each run when I specifically say shards, and have even specified normal shards with a drop chance would be enough? And you can get Razorback rewards over and over, because you can get the drops from the Razorback over and over from the kill, which is exactly what I'd want from Archons, a chance at more shards to drop. 

Nope I dont. Maybe read what is actually written before posting questions of things already explained in the rest of the sections you cut out small quotes from.

Again, read what is already written before making things up and asking pointless questions. Skimming really isnt your strong suit. Also, when you use "quotes", dont use things "in between" that havent been said or even hinted, because "this means" that someone said "exactly that".

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope because those arent the same type of rewards.

23 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

We're talking about getting a reward multiple times, not the reward itself.

Anyways.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Maybe read what is actually written

Sorry, I saw your rant about Hunts being a "marketing ploy" or a "horrible knee jerk hit-the-red-button 'solution' based on fear of people using up the content" or whatever and ngl I kind of tuned out. But I went back and checked and you're right, buried in there there's a mention that you'd prefer to repeat this content all day long and be rewarded for it over and over again. But idk what to tell you, that's not what this content is meant for and DE's spelled that out for us:

On 2022-09-07 at 8:00 AM, [DE]Megan said:

A note from the Dev team: 

With Veilbreaker comes a weekly approach to the systems introduced in this update. We want a variety of options for players to plan Daily, Weekly, and Evergreen goals. 

They want it to be weekly content. It's weekly content. It's supposed to be weekly. And while parts of that weekly content have room for improvement, I don't think making it an evergreen you can hyper-grind for a few weeks and never touch again is what they want for this content...

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

21 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I'm gonna take a guess on why: for the exact same reason they have been nerfing AoE launchers. Because voidrig in regular missions will be the new kuva bramma unleashed and an absolute cluster#*!%. We'll get a taste of it in this new survival. Frankly I don't think public missions will be very healthy because of it and plan to solo it. (And yes, I do have a fully decked out voidrig with all the mods)

Hey I'll take a nerf to Voidrig's 4 if that means every other ability gets buffed. The 1 and 3 suck, the 2 needs to scale better and the 4 obviously needs to be toned down. It has the same problem the Sister Hounds do, wherein their abilities are just ripped from their attacks and not properly balanced for when we get them.

I seriously don't get why people think it's a good mech overall when the 4 is the only decent ability it has.

[ShogunGunshow]

Every day we get closer to necramechs in normal missions is one day closer to disaster, and I really hoped that they had realized that and quietly shoved it under a rug somewhere.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Anyways.

Sorry, I saw your rant about Hunts being a "marketing ploy" or a "horrible knee jerk hit-the-red-button 'solution' based on fear of people using up the content" or whatever and ngl I kind of tuned out. But I went back and checked and you're right, buried in there there's a mention that you'd prefer to repeat this content all day long and be rewarded for it over and over again. But idk what to tell you, that's not what this content is meant for and DE's spelled that out for us:

They want it to be weekly content. It's weekly content. It's supposed to be weekly. And while parts of that weekly content have room for improvement, I don't think making it an evergreen you can hyper-grind for a few weeks and never touch again is what they want for this content...

Never actually ranted, I simply stated what it can be seen as. Since the approach of Veilbreaker is exactly as that of mobile games (and old asian MMOs), that rely on those two factors i.e using it as statistics or putting breaks on it so people keep on logging back on. In asian MMOs they tend to monetize it directly though. I kow people have also said that this isnt unlike raids in MMOs like WoW or similar, but they forget that in WoW and other similar games you have a main and maybe 1 or 2 alts, and not a roster of 50+ playable characters useful for different situations. I mean, yeah, DE wants WF to be MMO-like, but that isnt what WF actually is, and never will be, so whatever works in an MMO or MMORPG specifically doesnt naturally have to work here. Heck I've seen you criticize the system in other threads, yet for some reason you get on my throat for wanting to make it more available at a players personal pace. You've event hinted at the notion that the current system will leave gaps between players that are old and new aswell as those taking breaks. 

And in reality, the only way to avoid that properly is by allowing us to farm as we see fit and to whatever capacity we have time. You and I might log in daily or weekly, others just wont have that option due to real life. Completely removing the option to progress because someone might have work that wont allow them to complete it weekly or daily is not good. There are a multitude of occupations these days that arent "9-5", some are away for a week or more before being landing back home. Other games have had issues with it regarding dailies, where they've solved it by allowing 7 quests to be done during the week instead of being tied to a daily schedule, and some games have turned weeklies into 4x monthly quests. That would surely work here too, but would also require completely new mechanics for mission rotations. Just wait until vacation time comes around and people that travel will miss out on weeks of archon hunts in a row since they just dont have access to a computer. It isnt uncommon.

What DE wants or not doesnt have any impact if it is good or not. DE wants it in this case and it is horribly bad none the less. There are just so many things they havent actually planned ahead for. We will see it when vacation and holiday times come around and people start complaining about being locked out from catching up or dedicating the time they have spare as they want to make up for it.