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Clearly Broken - Heavy Attacks x2 Crit interaction with Bloodrush and Gladiator Mod Set is broken.


(XBOX)WayAlpha
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Heavy Attacks 2x Crit effect is no longer working with Bloodrush and/or Gladiator Mod Set. 

Previously, a Stropha with 12x Combo and just Bloodrush equipped would (upon Heavy Attacking) have red crits, since the math of it would be: 30x(1+2(4.4)) = 294cc.

Now however, the 2xCrit effect of Heavy Attacking isn't interacting with Bloodrush/Gladiator mod set. Instead, it's just 30x(1+4.4) = 162cc.

If you add in normal +CC however, like (Sacrifical) True Steel or CC from rivens, and heavy attack, it is calculated properly, but ONLY for the normal +CC, not Bloodrush or Gladiator.

So if you have a Stropha with 12x Combo + Bloodrush + Sacrificial Steel, the calculation seems to be working like this : 30x(1+2(2.2)+4.4) = 294cc.

And as far as the colours of the crits go, in my testing it has all been very consistent with what has happened.

In testing, I've found that this has also effected Cerata, and probably by proxy all glaives too, as well as the Arca Titron and probably the remainder of the melee weapons.

Heavy Attacking at 12x with Bloodrush/Glad isn't producing the same tier of crits anymore, and I believe it's due to the heavy atk 2x crit being unintentionally broken.
 

Please DE, some clarification would be appreciated as to whether this new calculation is unintentional, or whether it is an intended nerf by DE. I don't recall reading any update notes that mentioned this.
 

edit : If you're going to try to argue that it didn't work before, or it's 'not intended', kindly swallow your words and don't even bother. 2x CC on Heavy is something that is an intended mechanic for Heavy melees, and I wasn't imagining the red crits from before. 

Edited by (XBOX)WayAlpha
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30 minutes ago, (XBOX)WayAlpha said:

Heavy Attacks 2x Crit effect isn't working with Bloodrush and/or Gladiator Mod Set. 

I don't know about the Stropha, but bloodrush/gladiator mods have never had the x2 bonus crit chance for heavy attacks. That's only on mods that actually say that e.g. true/sacrificial steel.

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

I don't know about the Stropha, but bloodrush/gladiator mods have never had the x2 bonus crit chance for heavy attacks. That's only on mods that actually say that e.g. true/sacrificial steel.

It definitely worked before dude. You can't tell me I'm imagining the red crits from heavy attacking at 12x with just Bloodrush equipped.

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5 minutes ago, (XBOX)WayAlpha said:

It definitely worked before dude. You can't tell me I'm imagining the red crits from heavy attacking at 12x with just Bloodrush equipped.

As I said, I don't know about Stropha, but on other weapons, bloodrush/gladiator has never provided x2 crit chance. So if it has been changed for stropha, then that brings it in line with everything else. I.e. they fixed a bug.

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

As I said, I don't know about Stropha, but on other weapons, bloodrush/gladiator has never provided x2 crit chance. So if it has been changed for stropha, then that brings it in line with everything else. I.e. they fixed a bug.

Like I said, it has always worked for everything else too. Idk if you've ever heavy atk'd at 12x with a Pennant and just Bloodrush, but it used to red crit. 

This is not a bug fix.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Bloodrush/Gladiator has never doubled crit chance on heavy attacks. It's possible you're remembering before Bloodrush's interaction with modded crit chance was nerfed (used to be multiplicative, now it's additive), but that happened at pretty much the same time that regular melee crit mods got the x2 heavy attack bonus. Nothing has changed since then.

Actually a second nerf happened in update 30.5

Blood Rush:

Blood Rush’s maximum value is being lowered.This changes the achievability of consistent Red Crits from just one Mod (on most Melee weapons, some High-Critical exceptions), and now additional help will be needed via Mods, Arcanes, or Warframe abilities to achieve consistent Red Crits. 

One Mod alone generally delivering the best tier of Criticals felt too powerful. 

Blood Rush is changing from:
+60% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

To
+40% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

from:

And the update notes mentioned by Tiltskillet below: 

 

 

Edited by rapt0rman
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On 2022-10-30 at 12:12 AM, (XBOX)WayAlpha said:

If you're going to try to argue that it didn't work before, or it's 'not intended', kindly swallow your words and don't even bother. 2x CC on Heavy is something that is an intended mechanic for Heavy melees, and I wasn't imagining the red crits from before. 

I'll assume you know what you're talking about as far as it working at one time...but in that case it really does sound like a bug that was fixed.  One wouldn't expect a heavy attack bonus to be intended on a very popular mod where it's not mentioned, when it is explicitly stated on others. 

As further evidence, I'll point to the reasoning DE gave for True Steel and Sacrificial Steel getting the bonus:

Mod Changes:
The Critical Chance game has largely allowed Blood Rush to shine for active melee players, and with the ‘Steel’ series of Mods applying at the Base Critical Chance level, it’s led to players feeling they are obsolete. We are significantly buffing these Mods to give players a different option for Critical Chance builds. We want to give a more upfront Critical Chance and hard-hitting Heavy Attacks to builds that don’t rely on maintaining a high combo multiplier.

  • True Steel increased from 60% to 120% Critical Chance (x2 for Heavy Attack) at Max Rank. 

  • Sacrificial Steel increased from 88% to 220% Crit Chance (x2 for Heavy Attack) at Max Rank. 

It's possible that a hidden bonus on Blood Rush existed before, but I think it's really hard to argue that this bonus would never have been spelled out on the card or mentioned between the addition of Heavy Attacks in 2019 and whenever it went missing in 2022...unless it was never intended in the first place.

On 2022-11-05 at 8:55 PM, (XBOX)WayAlpha said:

It's just better to use a pure heavy atk build, or a pure combo build.

This seems like a legitimate problem to me too.  But you're almost certainly better off working on a feedback thread about it than a bug report on a bug that probably isn't a bug.

 

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The both of you are delusional. Stop giving DE the benefit of the doubt and realise when they f*!ked something.

1 hour ago, rapt0rman said:

It's possible you're remembering before Bloodrush's interaction with modded crit chance was nerfed

To this I ask, did I stutter? Was I not clear in what I said? Or do you think I jumped time between the major Melee Update and 3 months ago. I'm obviously not thinking of the OG Blood Rush nerf.

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'll assume you know what you're talking about as far as it working at one time...but in that case it really does sound like a bug that was fixed.  One wouldn't expect a heavy attack bonus to be intended on a very popular mod where it's not mentioned, when it is explicitly stated on others. 

As further evidence, I'll point to the reasoning DE gave for True Steel and Sacrificial Steel getting the bonus:

I've already refuted this once, repeating it is pointless when it has worked on dozens of melee weapons prior. 

 

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's possible that a hidden bonus on Blood Rush existed before, but I think it's really hard to argue that this bonus would never have been spelled out on the card or mentioned between the addition of Heavy Attacks in 2019 and whenever it went missing in 2022...unless it was never intended in the first place.

Like you said, perhaps it may not have been spelled out, but it was a well known mechanic amongst the majority of my circles. For it to have not been intended for years and not been nerfed? Sounds pretty intentional to me. But we're both working off our own assumptions so on this point, we can agree to disagree.

Do not repeat the argument of it 'working one time' when it has worked dozens of times. Ask anyone who used to use the Arca Titron slam-capacitor combo-burst build. They'd have to be blind to not notice it doesn't red crit anymore.

Edited by (XBOX)WayAlpha
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The only arguments I've seen questions whether I remembered seeing it correctly, whether it only worked on the 1 specific weapon, and from all of your phrasing, it seems to infer that none of you have evidently ever heavy attacked with Bloodrush equipped prior to this bug.

So unless you all have personally done so and evidently remember seeing red crits before and now no longer do not, or vice versa, specifically remember having Bloodrush equipped and heavy attacking at 12x combo and still seeing no increase in Crit prior to this bug as compared to a normal combo hit crit, kindly sod off and don't assume that I saw wrong if you've never used it before. 

I very clearly remember this working on the Pennant, Tatsu, Arca Titron, Destreza Prime, Nikana Prime, Stropha, Redeemer Prime, Vastilok, Venka Prime, Hate, Reaper Prime, Quassus, and even more. 

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We posted literal quotes that show that A) DE intentionally and publicly nerfed Bloodrush to reduce it's red crit capabilities (after the initial nerf), and B) DE specifically gave the x2 heavy multiplier to True Steel/Sacrificial Steel to give Bloodrush competition (not his assumption, it's right there in the quote).

Whether or not we personally experienced it is irrelevant. All signs point to either you misunderstanding something, or it was clearly unintended and got axed.

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24 minutes ago, (XBOX)WayAlpha said:

The only arguments I've seen questions whether I remembered seeing it correctly, whether it only worked on the 1 specific weapon, and from all of your phrasing, it seems to infer that none of you have evidently ever heavy attacked with Bloodrush equipped prior to this bug.

So unless you all have personally done so and evidently remember seeing red crits before and now no longer do not, or vice versa, specifically remember having Bloodrush equipped and heavy attacking at 12x combo and still seeing no increase in Crit prior to this bug as compared to a normal combo hit crit, kindly sod off and don't assume that I saw wrong if you've never used it before. 

That has nothing to do with what I said.  

To boil it down, my argument is that between these two things...

  1. A heavy attack bonus on Blood Rush was always the intended behavior and still is, even though it was never documented by DE and does not exist now.
  2. A heavy attack bonus on Blood Rush was never the intended behavior, because it was never documented by DE and does not exist now.

... #2 is light years more plausible than #1.  And in that case a bug report is a waste of your time. 

That's not an attack on your credibility, or your memory, or your dream of getting a more interesting melee system.    It's an observation.

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Le 30/10/2022 à 08:12, (XBOX)WayAlpha a dit :

If you are going to try to argue that it didn't work before, or it's 'not intended', kindly swallow your words and don't even bother. 2x CC on Heavy is something that is an intended mechanic for Heavy melees, and I wasn't imagining the red crits from before. 

Il y a 3 heures, (XBOX)WayAlpha a dit :

The both of you are delusional.

Like you said, perhaps it may not have been spelled out, but it was a well known mechanic amongst the majority of my circles. For it to have not been intended for years and not been nerfed? Sounds pretty intentional to me. But we're both working off our own assumptions so on this point, we can agree to disagree.


Ok bruh. If this interaction was so popular, it must be really easy for you to PROVE it. Like a build, a tutorial, a youtube clip ; to bring one of your many friends experts, or to link us a post, from here, Reddit ; or anything else.

Right ? Unless you just imagine things and refuse to be wrong.

Edited by dwqrf
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