Tenet Tetra's massive issue or: massive reload delay after alt-fire, Kuva Hek and more included

[Mozitaka]

TL;DR at the bottom

After update 30.8, Tenet tetra received two buffs:

• "Big boom" shot is now an alt-fire rather than mode change which removed need of redundant mode swap
• Being able to shoot grenade shot(or alt-fire) no matter how much ammo left in mag - by minus mag capacity riven or by shooting primary fire normally

As a result, Tenet Tetra became somewhat useful weapon from garbage(sorry for the words, but I really love my Tetra, I have 145 cycled minus mag riven and use it often)
IMO, still, with these buffs, Tenet Tetra has no significant/meaningful advantage over Stahlta, Tenet Envoy or Kuva Tonkor(these two have no rifle mode, but you really don't use Tenet Tetra as an assault rifle - there are so many better ones) but only disadvantage like crit stats, poor ammo economy or atrociously slow travel speed(Stahlta also has flight speed, but only noticeable in assault rifle mode).
It feels like just worse version of Stahlta or Envoy. Wait, this isn't over yet. We didn't even have started, there's more...

 

For Tenet Tetra, even after buff, there are still some issue should be looked into:

• MASSIVE delay after consuming all ammo in a mag by alt-fire, seems like out of the ordinary case, since the delay is longer than Stahlta's alt-fire while Tenet Tetra's fire rate is faster(reload delay is affected by fire rate, but there's more weird thing going on, see below) NOT RELOAD SPEED, RELOAD DELAY
• A glitch; alt-fire overrides ammo efficiency, resulting with 0 ammo in a mag even with any % of ammo efficiency(you can still fire shots but while primary fire does damage, alt-fire does no damage)

Now I'm not gonna talk about glitch since it's already reported multiple times in bugs forum and this forum is not bugs forum anyways.
Also, I will assume that Tenet Tetra's weird reload delay is not a glitch but a feature(if it's glitch, pls fix).

 

Before we discuss reload delay problem, let's define what I'm saying here; there are two-or four types of "delays" for reload

• Case A. When your magazine is not fully depleted i.e. your mag is not 0, even if you mash reload key multiple times, gun will reload after a certain time or "delay" which is affected by fire rate. You can test it in simulacrum or any mission, by putting multiple fire rate modes, your reload happens faster - reload itself does not accelerate of course but reload starts faster.
• Case A-2. When your magazine is not fully depleted, and you used alt-fire, you'll notice you reload slower than expected. That's because alt-fire has separate/slower fire rate stat(some doesn't) which will cause delay to be longer, but it kinda makes sense. You can test it easily with Stahlta or Quellor which has extreme fire rate difference between primary and alt-fire; try Quellor with negative fire rate mods, you will not be able to start reload somewhere like 2~3 seconds after shooting alt-fire.
• Case B. When your magazine is fully depleted i.e. your mag is 0, you can reload as soon as your magazine depleted; AKA no delay for reload whatsoever if you have 0 ammo in magazine. You can mash your reload key just after magazine shows 0 so that you can sustain your firepower. Unlike A-2, this does not care if you used primary or alt-fire since you have 0 ammo in mag anyways. Not sure why, but seems like the system allows you to reload immediately after you hit 0 ammo.
  However, that's not the case for every gun..
• Case B-2. When your magazine is fully depleted, and you used alt-fire, but for only few alt-fire guns, will require you delay like Case A-2 aka reload delay while ammo left in the mag. Wait, what? This includes Tenet Tetra, Tenet Detron, Kuva Hek and Grakata with wild frenzy mod? etc. I'm looking for other guns that have this problem let me know if you find one. This delay greatly affect the power of gun; effectively doubling reload time in case of Tenet Tetra using Primed Fast Hands since reload delay won't be shortened with reload speed bonus. Think it like you cannot force reload Kuva Tonkor after shooting, which will be a MASSIVE disturbance in terms of DPS and QoL.

So, after many hours I used Tenet Tetra, I couldn't bear the weird delay after shooting alt-fire which other guns such as Stahlta does not have, so I formed a hypothesis - I initially predicted there are varying "reload delay" stat thingy for each gun, which is especially longer in Kuva Hek and Tenet Tetra alt-fire, which would make sense(but it would be a shame for Tetra cuz even without it, it's still outclassed, while Kuva Hek is too powerful and reasonable to have such penalty). However, the hypothesis was wrong. After some testing in simulacrum and missions, I found out:

• Fire rate does affect the delay of Case B-2, just like Case A and A-2. Faster fire rate will decrease the delay.
• Also, the Case B-2 reload delay time is somehow the same as Case A-2s delay - You can test it with Kuva Hek: try with unmodded alt-fire and mash reload, then modded with larger magazine, alt-fire and mash reload. You will notice the delay for reload is same for both cases no matter how much ammo your magazine has(0 vs not 0).
• Which means, the guns of Case B-2, when you reload, they think they're Case A-2: they think they still have ammo left in magazine so they're taking delay time, even when you consume all ammo in the real magazine i.e. 0 ammo in the mag.

In conclusion, I think there's some spaghetti code happening behind the scenes which cause some guns to have reload delay while they should not. Almost every gun has no reload delay when its magazine is zero, except very few, including Tenet Tetra and Kuva Hek. IMO it's more like a glitch than a feature, since there's no reason DE will intentionally put delay disadvantage for these and probably other Tetra brothers will want this to be fixed. All hail to the Tenet Tetra and hope it shines someday.

To add, I'm not confident enough to say it's true since there's no evidence or code reviews, but I suspect Case B-2 include weapons

1. Weapons have "Original versions" like Tenet and Kuva ones
2. The "Original versions" has no alt-fire feature
3. OR alt-fire is added by mod (I tested Grakata Wild Frenzy for this)

In short, I suspect weapons that had no alt-fire but added later have this issue. No evident clue, however.
Maybe similar situation like Synth Charge cannot be equipped by Tenet Detron despite it has 6 ammo in the mag - most likely original Detron has 5 shots in the mag which is causing this issue.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk. May the god of Tetra be with you, my Tetra brothers in the wild and other all Tennos.

 

p.s. Please don't mind the grammatical errors and such; I'm not an English native speaker.

 

 

TL;DR

Almost every weapon starts reloading immediately if you hit reload key when the magazine reaches zero.
Very few does not benefit from it for example Tenet Tetra and Kuva Hek etc.
Send help please

[taiiat]

i think you're assuming that when using a Weapon and the action of firing empties the Magazine, that it will behave like if the Magazine was already empty. don't expect it to.
it's normal for the game for firing the Weapon to incur Refire Delay, as long as you actually, like, fired.

not that i'm advocating for Refire Delay, not remotely. but this sounds like Refire Delay working as you'd expect.

 

the 'problem' is that the Refire Delay is there / is so long, not that it's happening.

[Mozitaka]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

i think you're assuming that when using a Weapon and the action of firing empties the Magazine, that it will behave like if the Magazine was already empty. don't expect it to.
it's normal for the game for firing the Weapon to incur Refire Delay, as long as you actually, like, fired.

not that i'm advocating for Refire Delay, not remotely. but this sounds like Refire Delay working as you'd expect.

 

the 'problem' is that the Refire Delay is there / is so long, not that it's happening.

Yeah, as you said, reloading should happen after "refire delay" expires (I will assume refire delay means I can't perform certain actions related to gun such as firing, or reloading if it's immediately after I fired the gun - in reloading which fits to Case A and A-2) and that's normal, when magazine is still left.
However most of the weapons don't have refire delay when its magazine reaches 0(Case B). It's just gone for whatever reason. I don't know it's intended or not, but at least from my testing, my arsenal has about 60~ guns and most of them, when magazine is zero, started reloading as fast as I tap reload key except those I mentioned. Unfortunately I don't have many gun but 60~ guns would suffice as an experiment.
If you want extreme example, you can try modding tenet envoy with lowest fire rate possible - which gives you 0.367 fire rate, its refire delay is like literally about 3 sec. You cannot fire or reload until that time expires. BUT you can reload immediately after firing when the magazine reaches 0. Really weird.

The problem is that some weapons I mentioned cannot benefit from 0 ammo reload. They still have refire delay even if they have no ammo left in the mag.

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Mozitaka said:

However most of the weapons don't have refire delay when its magazine reaches 0(Case B). It's just gone for whatever reason. I don't know it's intended or not, but at least from my testing, my arsenal has about 60~ guns and most of them, when magazine is zero, started reloading as fast as I tap reload key except those I mentioned. Unfortunately I don't have many gun but 60~ guns would suffice as an experiment

i'm pretty sure you're referring to when the Magazine is already at 0, rather than reaching 0 after firing, though?
these two are notable distinctions.

but in either case still, it's a design problem to be addressed.

[Mozitaka]

24 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i'm pretty sure you're referring to when the Magazine is already at 0, rather than reaching 0 after firing, though?
these two are notable distinctions.

but in either case still, it's a design problem to be addressed.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

What I meant was: reload delay is removed when you fire last round thus magazine becomes zero.