Maybe I don't use it enough but

[(XBOX)AgentMaryland93]

What was the point of hard nerfing the Void Rigs? How was it so strong that it was necessary to give it a pitiful time limit of 2 minutes before it crashes and then you have to wait 10 minutes before you can call it again? I mean, you can only use it in certain areas anyway, it's not like MR 25+'s were just running into level 5 missions and spamming Void Rigs all over the place. 

 

Please, someone explain. 

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

A well built void rig genuinely trivializes all content. DE wants you to be able to use your toys, but not abuse your toys if that makes sense. 

The voidrig in conjunction survival is meant to deal with Thrax, not the mission itself.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

My Void Rid does something like 600k per shot on its 4th ability and that's an explosive round dealing radial damage on Lv110 Steel Path Grineer for Plains of Eidolon. Combined that with the Void Rig having an ability to make it immune to all damage, and that Zenurik can regenerate its Energy. Yeah, it would curb stomp regular maps with ease. It already curb stomps SP bounties on the Open World maps to the point is very common practice that anyone on SP version of Bounties will all be in Void Rigs and enemies will be dead for miles. 

[trst]

Balance concerns I'd assume. If it had no downtime or was able to be up once a rotation then the Thrax (and the entire mission, really) would be immediately trivialized without effort. Just like how they already perform everywhere else they're allowed.

And it doesn't even matter that we can be stronger and more mobile without them. The problem is that they take little investment to reach the point of trivializing things and have zero downside when used since you can't actually die when using them. Having free access to them is no different that having an automatic K.Zarr and Mesmer Skin in everyone's loadout.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Mechs still need a lane to stay in, if we had access to Mechs 100% of the time Warframe's name should just switch to Nechramechs.. I'm all for seeing scenarios where they do have a place in the game (they're here to stay now) but they definitely need to stay out of every node on the star chart.  

[0_The_F00l]

I personally think the limitations are really not necessary.

And while a well built well invested void rig necramech (which is one of two mechs) that needs a few hoops to jump through to get can potentially trivialise it with the right combination of abilities and mods.

The above statement is true for a significant portion of the warframes and weapons as well.

I am all in for balance based decisions , but i  not sure if this is well thought out.

Personally i don't have a very strong opinion on it , being able to use the mechs itself is a good decision , it just feels weird when paired with the limitations.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

15 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I personally think the limitations are really not necessary.

And while a well built well invested void rig necramech (which is one of two mechs) that needs a few hoops to jump through to get can potentially trivialise it with the right combination of abilities and mods.

The above statement is true for a significant portion of the warframes and weapons as well.

I am all in for balance based decisions , but i  not sure if this is well thought out.

Personally i don't have a very strong opinion on it , being able to use the mechs itself is a good decision , it just feels weird when paired with the limitations.

I'm sorry but if I went into a warframe levelling session where 3 Mechs were deployed: Id straight up leave that game and start playing Solo. Restrictions in this regard are not a negative thing. They should definitely have a place within the game but Mechs on every node in the star-chart would absolutely punish new players from not having one. Steel Path might be the exception to this but if this was the regular star-chart, no way. Its punishing enough for them already. 

[L3512]

25 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Mechs still need a lane to stay in, if we had access to Mechs 100% of the time Warframe's name should just switch to Nechramechs.. I'm all for seeing scenarios where they do have a place in the game (they're here to stay now) but they definitely need to stay out of every node on the star chart.  

Mechs have nothing going for them apart from one of eight abilities, which overkills enemies just like a ton of frames and weapons.

 

1 minute ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

I'm sorry but if I went into a warframe levelling session where 3 Mechs were deployed: Id straight up leave that game and start playing Solo. Restrictions in this regard are not a negative thing. They should definitely have a place within the game but Mechs on every node in the star-chart would absolutely punish new players from not having one. 

Steel Path might be the exception to this but if this was the regular star-chart. No way. 

Anything can pretty much clear the Star-chart faster than a Mech, once the novelty wears off no one will bother with Mechs.

[0_The_F00l]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

I'm sorry but if I went into a warframe levelling session where 3 Mechs were deployed: Id straight up leave that game and start playing Solo. Restrictions in this regard are not a negative thing. They should definitely have a place within the game but Mechs on every node in the star-chart would absolutely punish new players from not having one. Steel Path might be the exception to this but if this was the regular star-chart, no way.

I am not sure why you would leave if you are there to level the frame.

But i understand why you would leave if the mechs are just dominating everything with nothing for you to do.

Do you check if it's a void rig or a bonewidow before you do leave though ?

The star chart can be trivialise by many many other frames with a lot less investment.

As i said , don't feel too strongly about it , but feel it could have been handled in a more ... Tasteful manner.

I rarely use the 4th ability of the void rig as i don't like the loss of mobility , and steel path enemies can wreck the mech pretty quickly.

I should test out the bonewidow to see its effectiveness too 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

7 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Mechs have nothing going for them apart from one of eight abilities, which overkills enemies just like a ton of frames and weapons.

 

Anything can pretty much clear the Star-chart faster than a Mech, once the novelty wears off no one will bother with Mechs.

Yeah and it's not like the playerbase has never gravitated towards a single ability before right?(cough, cough Wukong). Are you saying that 1 ability wouldn't get abused?  Pair that with Zenuirk and you'd have a 600K damage full auto turret.....without an ammo economy.

Yeah, that won't get used at all. 

 

[ReddyDisco]

Planet vaporizing mechs on a timer? i see nothing wrong with that. DE dug themselves into this hole when they made voidrig so darn strong

[L3512]

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)RelsWhisper said:

Yeah and it's not like the playerbase has never gravitated towards a single ability before right?(cough, cough Wukong). Are you saying that 1 ability wouldn't get abused?  Pair that with Zenuirk and you'd have a 600K damage full auto turret.....without an ammo economy.

Yeah, that won't get used at all. 

 

Zenuirk will not supply energy while using Arquebex.

However the crux was more that all mechs can do is kill things with a single ability, big deal.

While writing this I done a test between Voidrig and Octavia, same KPM but of course Octaiva allows me to reply here as it's basically an AFK frame.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

47 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Zenuirk will not supply energy while using Arquebex.

Semantics. You can still replenlish energy with Zenurik when the skill isn't active. It would essentially replace the Bramma/Zarr/Wukong problem. 

"My Void Rid does something like 600k per shot on its 4th ability and that's an explosive round dealing radial damage on Lv110 Steel Path Grineer for Plains of Eidolon. Combined that with the Void Rig having an ability to make it immune to all damage, and that Zenurik can regenerate its Energy. Yeah, it would curb stomp regular maps with ease. It already curb stomps SP bounties on the Open World maps to the point is very common practice that anyone on SP version of Bounties will all be in Void Rigs and enemies will be dead for miles" 

Did you not read this comment from earlier? Are you honestly telling me that this wouldn't be used in the normal star-chart? Do I need to bring up the stat usage of Wukong? It's not like AoE, Wukong and the ammo economy received changes recently right? Adding Voidrig to the entire star-chart completely undermines the reasons why they even happened in the first place. 

It's already commonplace in the area's they are allowed to be used in. I think it's a fairly reasonable assumption that if they showed up everywhere else: That trend would continue. They do have place within the game however they shouldn't have a place throughout the entire game. It's also likely why we saw 2 new nodes added for them to be used in and not completely unrestricted.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Railjack survival exist. If you want to use them exclusively without a timer, go there. Of all the places to allow us to use necromechs, Lua is a good place. No tight corridor. Wide open rooms. Curvy sections. Random floor openings. This is a test bed on how well these things will work in everyday missions.

[Traumtulpe]

4 hours ago, trst said:

Balance concerns I'd assume. If it had no downtime or was able to be up once a rotation then the Thrax (and the entire mission, really) would be immediately trivialized without effort. Just like how they already perform everywhere else they're allowed.

You are doing something wrong with your Warframes, if you think that.

Fact is: Necramechs are LESS durable than Warframes, they are LESS mobile, they have SMALLER AoE, and they deal LESS damage.

Yes the Arquebex is strong. It also requires you to become stationary, and it does not deal slash procs - nor can Necramechs strip armor. I used my Necramech in the level 200 mission to get those 300 kills for nightwave, and then I never bothered with it again because my Warframes are just better in every single way, and without cooldown.

[Tyreaus]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)AgentMaryland93 said:

What was the point of hard nerfing the Void Rigs? How was it so strong that it was necessary to give it a pitiful time limit of 2 minutes before it crashes and then you have to wait 10 minutes before you can call it again? I mean, you can only use it in certain areas anyway, it's not like MR 25+'s were just running into level 5 missions and spamming Void Rigs all over the place. 

 

Please, someone explain. 

I'd wager the Lua survival missions are a test bed for Necramechs being usable elsewhere, as they had promised ages ago. So that "MR 25+'s ... running into level 5 missions and spamming Void Rigs all over the place" is something they're considering.

If true, being a test bed means those numbers are also subject to change. Personally, I'd say 5+10 or 2+5 would be better numbers. I'd even say 1+2, or even less, if the current intent is as ARC_Paroe says: to take care of Thrax (or heavy-in-general) enemies. Positions Necramechs as being a sort of "big gun emergency button" rather than a 2 minute rampage where you just start getting comfortable before it falls apart.

[trst]

19 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You are doing something wrong with your Warframes, if you think that.

Fact is: Necramechs are LESS durable than Warframes, they are LESS mobile, they have SMALLER AoE, and they deal LESS damage.

Yes the Arquebex is strong. It also requires you to become stationary, and it does not deal slash procs - nor can Necramechs strip armor. I used my Necramech in the level 200 mission to get those 300 kills for nightwave, and then I never bothered with it again because my Warframes are just better in every single way, and without cooldown.

It doesn't matter that mechs are less that frames, it matters that they're enough. And that they're strapped onto everyone's loadouts with zero cost and risk involved in using them. As well mobility and durability don't even matter for the Voidrig when you can just hop into it, Storm Shroud, and Guard Mode to mow down whatever you want while invulnerable.

Just because the game's balance is already stuck in the bottom of a pit doesn't mean that it needs to keep getting deeper.

[Traumtulpe]

Storm Shroud is just bad Iron Skin, and Rhino can equip weapons that proc slash (and use Roar). I don't see how a Necramech is ever better than just using Rhino.

[Silligoose]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)AgentMaryland93 said:

What was the point of hard nerfing the Void Rigs? How was it so strong that it was necessary to give it a pitiful time limit of 2 minutes before it crashes and then you have to wait 10 minutes before you can call it again? I mean, you can only use it in certain areas anyway, it's not like MR 25+'s were just running into level 5 missions and spamming Void Rigs all over the place. 

 

Please, someone explain. 

There is no real point to it. Necramechs aren't particularly powerful as compared to Warframe options, but DE likes to pretend they have all sorts of mechanics that lead to "peaks and valleys" in mission flow, so here we are.

[trst]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

Storm Shroud is just bad Iron Skin, and Rhino can equip weapons that proc slash (and use Roar). I don't see how a Necramech is ever better than just using Rhino.

Seriously?

It doesn't matter if it's a bad Iron Skin, that the Arquebex doesn't deal slash procs, nor that mechs don't have Roar. The point is that being stationary doesn't matter when you're invulnerable due to Storm Shroud and lacking slash or damage buffs doesn't matter when it has enough DPS to bulldoze through nearly anything. Even if they eventually fall off that also doesn't mean anything when they're viable in the highest level mission we have and there's no incentives to go into endurance levels.

And it also doesn't matter if just playing Rhino is better than using a mech. It matters that when they're allowed to be used anyone can just whip a mech out regardless of their loadout. And it's something that comes with absolutely zero cost or risk to use since you're effectively behind three layers of invulnerability while using one.

[Traumtulpe]

Nah, I don't see it. It doesn't matter how many layers of invulnerability you have - one is enough, you're invulnerable after all.

The only thing that matters after having one layer of invulnerability is how fast you can move through the level and kill things, and a Necramech is worse than a Warframe on both accounts.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)AgentMaryland93 said:

Please, someone explain. 

a fully built rank 40 voidrig (5 formas in it) is literally an unstoppable killing machine, with superior raw damage output over any warframe and basically immortality. to give you an idea, I'll explain how this is achievable:

- the main things are the Necramech Rage and Repair mods: by having both on, and remembering to use Strom Shroud, enemies first have to get through a barrier, then your shields, and then through your health. except what they don't realize is that nearly every time the mech takes health damage it gains energy, even whilst in guard mode, so the more they hit it, the longer I get to spend in Guard Mode, with it's incredibly powerful Arquebex cannons that have large AoE, unlimited ammo and are the strongest weapons in the game dealing millions of damage (they can also crit). 

- if by some miracle they get the mech down to about 1300 health, Necramech Repair kicks in and regens health back to around 2500 in the space of a few seconds: this has a cooldown of course, but right after repair triggers, I cast Storm Shroud... unless I were to fight insanely high level enemies, there is no way on god's earth they will get through a Storm Shroud, all my shields and most of my health before that cooldown ends; at which point the cycle repeats. 

- this is coupled with being able to stay in Guard mode indefinitley since mechs spawn with full energy, can still pick up Orbs from Dispensary (a subsumable ability) and gain even more energy via Necramech Rage. literally the only downside is being rooted to the spot, but then so is Mesa's 4 without the augment, and she only has pistols: I have akimbo grenade launchers that are fully automatic...

people will bring up the slower movement and such, and yes, the mechs suck for mobility, but in terms of raw room clearing power and tankiness, the mechs win hands down: the 2 minute limit was necessary to prevent mechs like mine from making it way too easy, and it's because of this power that we likely won't see mechs in any other mission, or at least not without the time limit in place.

[Yamazuki]

I'm not sure why people are trying to argue that the inability to move during Arquebex is a drawback in a mission such as Survival. The way the mission type gets farmed is by not moving and having enemies funneled. It's one of the missions that actually encourage semi-afk playstyles and rewards it. DE even justified Wukong and nerfing aoe on the grounds of standing in one spot not doing anything but blasting the ground repeatedly.

The additions in Conjunction Survival do literally nothing to discourage camping in a spot either. The additional enemies already spawn around players, and the roaming guy can just be ignored entirely. The lack of mobility is only an actual drawback in missions that actually require frequent movement rather than making it optional.

[Traumtulpe]

2 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

a fully built rank 40 voidrig (5 formas in it) is literally an unstoppable killing machine, with superior raw damage output over any warframe and basically immortality.

You are simply wrong.

From the top of my head, my Necramech has about 4500 health - guess what, Inaros can get like 12k, and he cannot be used in high level stuff because he dies in one hit.

And the Arquebex might have the highest raw stats, but it uses Archgun mods (which suck, hard), and Voidrig has no way of bypassing armor. If you used a Voidrig, and I used Saryn, I'd deal more than twice the damage you do, guaranteed (probably more like 10x the damage).

And have you ever played Mesa? You bullet jump and activate her 4 mid flight, kill everything in sight while you fly, then deactive it again. There is no contest between Mesa and a Necramech.

[Surbusken]

"Necramechs on all maps" (2019).

 

Minus being able to wall latch, and so climb something vertical, necramechs are actually not less mobile. In fact, in some areas they are more mobile.

You just have to learn how to animation clip with them. That's the real beauty of necramechs, it takes manual ability to learn to master them; their gameplay is deep.

 

In so far as the reason for nerfing them for the new LUA mode, it is obviously utterly pointless, as it is exclusively a timed grind.

If you got 2 kills or 20,000 isn't going to change the grind one iota.

Not going to shave ½ a second off the grind or drop a single extra arcane or prasm.

 

People talking about difficulty in warframe should go complain to the developers about those 200 other items that trivializes content, but talking as if everything is perfectly balanced and necramechs would be the one item making content easy, that's gibberish.

 

When content is advertised and promoted but then not delivered, that just doesn't help anyone.

With the problem being, the developers own content isn't balanced for itself and then the players have to pay for it.