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Please consider buffing back some pistols' fire rates, especially Aklato


traybong111
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Aklato feels utterly horrible with 5/s fire rate, the spammability was an important part of Aklato's appeal for me, the trash clown with 100 forma Aklato. 

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Yes Akvasto Prime is my most used secondary and I'll get to 100 Forma Akvasto Prime too as soon as I hit the xp cap, shush. Please increase Akvasto and Akmagnus' fire rate they just feel like watered down Aklex Prime it's so awkward and bad. 

Introduce an automatic fire feature for all semis as accessibility and cap its fire rate at 5 for all I care, I just want my old spammy rhythm back. Please increase Lato/Aklato's fire rate to 6.5-7/s which is still within average human range (most average human CPS according to CPS Tester being 6.7/s). 

(Buff the fire rate and nerf its damage only in Conclave if you have to, that's kind of the only place this thing probably matters anyway. Absolutely feel free to prove me wrong by releasing Aklato Vandal, though.) 

(Please nerf Magnus and Vasto damage in Conclave, they're just strictly better Lex Prime now.) 

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51 minutes ago, traybong111 said:

Introduce an automatic fire feature for all semis as accessibility

I'd like to add two things to this in particular:

1. The moment Wisp drops a haste mote, 90-99% of the changes they made in pursuit of "pls don't macro to optimize your DPS" goes out the window. It's one of several reasons this accessibility option has been requested.

2. No cap on that accessibility option, please. Mousewheel bind bypasses it, it feels weird to effectively punish players needing an accessibility feature, and a cap basically tells players to use a macro to optimize DPS. Again. The thing they wanted to avoid:

Quote

We adjusted the stats of the following semi-automatic weapons whose maximum potential was only being reached with the use of macros

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6 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:
2. No cap on that accessibility option, please. Mousewheel bind bypasses it, it feels weird to effectively punish players needing an accessibility feature, and a cap basically tells players to use a macro to optimize DPS. Again. The thing they wanted to avoid:

yeah, it's a pretty wack double standard. People can spin their Scroll Wheels and that's sanctioned for high Fire Rate, but other ways of doing it (that, generally means not needing to Buy specific Hardware) isn't because reasons.

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1 hour ago, traybong111 said:

increase Lato/Aklato's fire rate to 6.5-7/s which is still within average human range

But there's Lethal Torrent, a staple Secondary Mod, which already takes you well past that though.

In any case, an option, optimally on a per-weapon basis, to simply turn Semi into Full Auto, is definitely still something that should happen.

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26 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:
 

I'd like to add two things to this in particular:

1. The moment Wisp drops a haste mote, 90-99% of the changes they made in pursuit of "pls don't macro to optimize your DPS" goes out the window. It's one of several reasons this accessibility option has been requested.

2. No cap on that accessibility option, please. Mousewheel bind bypasses it, it feels weird to effectively punish players needing an accessibility feature, and a cap basically tells players to use a macro to optimize DPS. Again. The thing they wanted to avoid:

I mean, we know they can put a hard cap that cannot be overriden on fire rates post-Granmu nerf. I don't really care all that much if their maximum cap is around 10/s, I just suggested 5 as that seems to be the number DE likes for some reason.

Seems to me like we could have that autofire accessibility feature without gimping a bunch of guns' fire rate if DE stopped being so wishy-washy on macro usage. I'm not happy that I have to stop using the guns I enjoyed spamming because some people could theoretically sustain theoretical max DPS on some specific guns with moderately specific mod/arcane setup and macro. Wow, I don't care, come back to me with that concern trolling when 10/s Akvasto Prime can sustainably outdamage Phantasma or Kuva Bramma or when macro usage on these guns become a noticeably common trend. 

Edited by traybong111
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38 minutes ago, taiiat said:

yeah, it's a pretty wack double standard. People can spin their Scroll Wheels and that's sanctioned for high Fire Rate, but other ways of doing it (that, generally means not needing to Buy specific Hardware) isn't because reasons.

Sanctioning any kind of third-party software usage is iffy territory. Something like an auto-input macro would be fine for semi-auto weapon firing, but caused pretty big issues back with that Khora (?) affinity bug. So it starts complicated with differing contexts. And if you say x is okay in some official capacity, you welcome the questions. The ones asking if doing x with y under conditions z is okay or not. Right now, they can just tap the sign that says "use at your own risk, obviously don't use it for these." But once you get specific on one, they'll want you to be specific on all.

In short, it's a can of worms in the shape of a headache. Best left closed.

The scroll-wheel thing is a different story because, well...they published the game. It's pretty much "sanctioned until further notice" by default.

That said, most macros for auto-firing don't alter game files, ought not to cheat or exploit for what they're doing, and don't AFK because you still have to aim. And, per the update post I quoted at the bottom here, there's a pretty strong implication this use case is allowed. Would be strange for them to mention not everyone being an avid macro user, otherwise. So, short of a formal OK that would open that can of worms, it really does seem OK.

58 minutes ago, traybong111 said:

Seems to me like we could have that autofire accessibility feature without gimping a bunch of guns' fire rate if DE stopped being so wishy-washy on macro usage. I'm not happy that I have to stop using the guns I enjoyed spamming because some people could theoretically sustain theoretical max DPS on some specific guns with moderately specific mod/arcane setup and macro. Wow, I don't care, come back to me with that concern trolling when 10/s Akvasto Prime can sustainably outdamage Phantasma or Kuva Bramma or when macro usage on these guns become a noticeably common trend. 

You might be misunderstanding DE's intent for the changes. Per the update post:

Quote

We adjusted the stats of the following semi-automatic weapons whose maximum potential was only being reached with the use of macros (to learn more about third-party use in Warframe visit our support article). Since not everyone is an avid macro user (within the boundaries allowed), we lowered fire rates to a more humanly achievable level and improved their damage or reload stats to compensate. 

The idea is to bring availability of max DPS out of the "macro only" realm. There's no worries about those weapons being too powerful, not even worries about people using macros for them, but of their power being accessible only to macro users. And people on far too much caffeine.

Ergo, "we could have that autofire accessibility feature without gimping a bunch of guns' fire rate". Full stop.

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1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

In short, it's a can of worms in the shape of a headache. Best left closed.

i'm referring to certain Software being Blacklisted (or at best, dark gray). the pretty neutral stance they've taken on the entire scenario is okay with me, it's a mostly hands off guidance which i don't really have a problem with. but there remains certain Software which is Blacklisted.

3 hours ago, traybong111 said:

I just suggested 5 as that seems to be the number DE likes for some reason.

if i were to guess, intentionally chosen to be ""not fast enough"" so that Semi-Auto Weapons are more apparent in 'feeling different'. with probably not the intention of being mildly malicious or antagonistic, but, with the result that someone could perhaps interpret it that way.

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3 hours ago, taiiat said:

i'm referring to certain Software being Blacklisted (or at best, dark gray). the pretty neutral stance they've taken on the entire scenario is okay with me, it's a mostly hands off guidance which i don't really have a problem with. but there remains certain Software which is Blacklisted.

As they mention in the helpdesk article, any sort of list opens problems whenever that list changes:

Quote

If you have a piece of Macro software that is normally tolerated, but is then discovered to be the source of a future exploit, that software may get added to a ban list, and you could potentially be caught up in the automatic drag net.

And then you get people kicking and screaming "it was allowed!" or "it wasn't banned!" And the questions again. With how much software is out there, it's pretty much all the same issues as the use-cases.

Plus if you mention anything by name on a blacklist, you give cheaters a real good idea what to skip over in their attempts to cheat, ironically making it easier for them to do so. That's a general no-no for any game with anti-cheat.

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8 hours ago, traybong111 said:

Seems to me like we could have that autofire accessibility feature without gimping a bunch of guns' fire rate if DE stopped being so wishy-washy on macro usage.

Probably never going to happen, for the reasons Tyraeus explained.  And  even if they did, the other big issue is access to macros.  If it's anything more than absolutely trivial--for a console player with a cheap controller, for instance--then "just use a macro" is a crappy solution.  I'd argue it's at least semi-crappy even if it is trivial, compared to DE adding the function themselves.   That's the ethical thing to do AFAIC.

Anyway, I have no idea, how easy is it to to set up an auto fire button with the base controller on ps / xb / switch now?

I'm still puzzled they went to the effort of rejiggering stats rather than handling this as a toggle.  Yes, this way is easier for them, but they're a studio that's been very reluctant to change weapon stats the last few years, and seems to pride themselves for being progressive on accessibility issues.   Is it plausible there's some huge technical issue with a toggle?

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3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

As they mention in the helpdesk article, any sort of list opens problems whenever that list changes:

And then you get people kicking and screaming "it was allowed!" or "it wasn't banned!" And the questions again. With how much software is out there, it's pretty much all the same issues as the use-cases.

Plus if you mention anything by name on a blacklist, you give cheaters a real good idea what to skip over in their attempts to cheat, ironically making it easier for them to do so. That's a general no-no for any game with anti-cheat.

and what's your point. it's fucntionally the same as Banning IP ranges - someone from 20.40.x did something we don't like, so shoot anyone from 20.40
or Banning a particular Make/Model of Car because someone used one of those to commit a Crime.

it's just silly, there isn't anything more to read into it than that.
i don't have any dog in that race but that doesn't make it not plain silly.

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Is it plausible there's some huge technical issue with a toggle?

considering a variety of Fire modes exist, and on the fly changeable ones in the game now too - i'd say that places precedence of no. even if it's actually yes, these facets existing make it quite the -_- to try to defend otherwise.

but i don't have any dog in that race.

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