Suggestion: Give Merciless Arcanes "+Punch-through" to replace the now absent "+100% Max Ammo."

[RogueSyndiva]

What the title said.

[gamingchair1121]

why should merciless get punch through and not all single target weapons? if anything merciless should get faster proc ticking or even a slightly higher damage bonus (maybe around 400%) because deadhead gives more damage overall because of the headshot multiplier.

[SDGDen]

21 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

why should merciless get punch through and not all single target weapons? if anything merciless should get faster proc ticking or even a slightly higher damage bonus (maybe around 400%) because deadhead gives more damage overall because of the headshot multiplier.

merciless is easier to use due to not requiring headshots. it's already the easiest primary arcane. no need to buff it further. it deserved the (very minor) nerf it got. 

[gamingchair1121]

15 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

merciless is easier to use due to not requiring headshots

headshot kills are only hard to get when your slash proc damage outweighs your bullet damage

9 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

no need to buff it further

I still think it needs at least something. deadhead has both two buffs (-recoil and headshot multi) and has better damage because of the headshot multiplier compared to merciless with just reload speed. deadhead is just so much of a better option that the only single target weapons I use merciless on are the chakkhurr (reloading is pain) and convectrix (can't even proc deadhead reliably anyway).

[RogueSyndiva]

2 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

why should merciless get punch through and not all single target weapons?

I think my brain just froze itself trying to understand it.

[rapt0rman]

Making Merciless unusable on explosive weapons would be hilarious, but I don't really think that's the goal.

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

Making Merciless unusable on explosive weapons would be hilarious, but I don't really think that's the goal.

You're thinking of the old punch through mechanics.  The way PT currently works on almost all projectiles with a radial damage component, it wouldn't do anything--the projectile would stop dead on first contact and explode.  It'd simply be a buff for single target weapons and an empty affix for AoE.

That said, I don't think Merciless needs a bonus as powerful as PT.  I'm not certain it needs a bonus at all even,  though I'd have no problem with it getting something that's semi useful.  Dexterity needs it a little more, I think.

[Frendh]

17 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

headshot kills are only hard to get when your slash proc damage outweighs your bullet damage

I think you are in the minority with that belief. 

7 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Dexterity needs it a little more, I think.

While I would not mind a buff being a melee player, I think Dexterity is quite balanced. The few times when I need to pull out my ranged weapons I do not have to worry about building stacks, my melee already took care of it.

[gamingchair1121]

7 minutes ago, Frendh said:

I think you are in the minority with that belief.

skill issue tbh

[Frendh]

7 minutes ago, gamingchair1121 said:

skill issue tbh

Yes.

[Tiltskillet]

30 minutes ago, Frendh said:

I think you are in the minority with that belief. 

While I would not mind a buff being a melee player, I think Dexterity is quite balanced. The few times when I need to pull out my ranged weapons I do not have to worry about building stacks, my melee already took care of it.

Yeah, that makes sense.  Personally though,  I don't really think of them as the melee player arcanes.  though I understand looking at them that way, especially now that the holster speed is gone.   For me they're more the use -all- your weapons arcanes.

So I'd like them to get something along the lines of the lost affix that encourages using both of the ranged weapons.   Slower stack decay while holstered, or a swap damage bonus, or holstered reload.  Something like that.

[0_The_F00l]

It does need something in my opinion - purely to make it relatively fair ,

Maybe a faster status tic , or stronger status damage effects (we already have a mod for that ) or fire rate would be acceptable.

Not sure of punchthrough.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2022-12-08 at 8:40 AM, Tiltskillet said:

Dexterity needs it a little more, I think.

Dexterity isn't really a gun arcane, its equipped on your gun but its main benefit is Melee Combo Counter.

DE just invented it as a nod to Melee Players so there wouldn't be riots when the big Gun Buff happened.

the main users of Dexterity, wouldn't get much use of adding Punchthru to it.

[Tiltskillet]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

the main users of Dexterity, wouldn't get much use of adding Punchthru to it.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting adding PT to either arcane.  Only that it's marginally more in need of an affix to replace the one it lost.

PT on a new arcane could be cool though.

14 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Dexterity isn't really a gun arcane, its equipped on your gun but its main benefit is Melee Combo Counter.

Odd that it has a huge damage bonus to guns then. :P  With the deleted holster speed, 2/3 of its bonuses were ranged.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

47 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Odd that it has a huge damage bonus to guns then. :P  With the deleted holster speed, 2/3 of its bonuses were ranged.

 

Thing is, it's anti-synergistic to guns.

 Because in order to activate the damage bonus you must get Melee Kills. IE, Don't use your Gun.

-but if I'm already Killing Effectively with Melee, why bother swapping to a gun?

 

the other arcanes are better choices for a gun, because they activate by Using said gun and continue to Ramp Up the more you use it. with Dexterity, the more you use your gun the more the buff decays...

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

but if I'm already Killing Effectively with Melee, why bother swapping to a gun?

Because you might be able to kill even more effectively with both.   Granted, a lot of content doesn't require this kind of efficiency.  But even then, I find it fun to play that way, and it's nice when the game actively supports it with bonuses even when they're not necessary.

Anyway, I'm proposing a ranged bonus to replace holster speed.  I'm not proposing removal of the combo duration, so this will have no impact on us when we want to use our ranged weapons as nothing more than melee stat sticks. 

But if you like using those ranged weapons at all, even as utility support for melee, then a new bonus can help with that.

[Famecans]

This nerf was very unfair, the DE could revise the primary arcana and expand to new categores before all this make a mess.
I'm talking about individual primary arcana for each primary category(shotgun/sniperrifle/autorifle...), this reduces the chance to broken any weapon and reduces the chance of nerfs.

[Kaichi16]

let's be real: DE wont change it.

that's how they work.

unless people complain REALLY hard about it that it affects their pockets, they wont change it.

i'd love to have punch through in some arcane and merciless DEFINITELY needs a buff as it was nerfed for literally no reason.

but i highly doubt they'll do something like that.

it makes me sad, i really love warframe, but DE's decisions dont make sense... 

[RogueSyndiva]

On 2022-12-13 at 12:02 PM, Kaichi16 said:

but DE's decisions don't make sense... 

You got that right. They don't.

That comment on warframe wiki where a person said DE being retarded 50% of the time is starting to make more sense now.