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Soma / Soma Prime Needs a Serious buff


(PSN)WolfMoom213
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1 hour ago, (PSN)WolfMoom213 said:

I'm not talking about builds or whatever I just want the Soma Prime to be buffed I don't care what it can do as of now I care about what it should be doing without Ridiculous amounts of modding  

 

The point of progressing through the game is to be able to do ridiculous amounts of modding...

If you don't want to mod properly, you have the entire regular starchart, sorties, invasions, relic fissures etc. 

But I'm assuming you're asking for a buff because you went to steel path solo and discovered your weapon fell off at 20 minutes? 

Can you clarify for us what mission you were in to warrant deciding the soma needs a buff? You didn't provide much information....

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I believe i already had this conversation some time in the past with a different player.

Sure , there are more effective weapons , but can't have every weapon be just as good as the top tier weapons , there would be no diversity or progression otherwise.

The point is the weapon should be reasonable at completing the content it is intended for (as part of a loadout , not just a standalone item) and then depending on player skill it could go further . It is unfortunate that the players have gotten so used to crutches that anything that doesn't delete rooms in a blink is considered useless.

Good thing i can re use these videos.

 

 

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2 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

video

"Thanks for showing us, now I'm going to spend forma's on my Tiberon prime and retire Soma after buying it from prime resusgence for a few dollars."

Guy, do you realize how fair it is to ask for upgrades considering that this weapon does not indicate any progression and is sold as a primed part in resurgence?

any novice player may think that Soma prime is better than a Synapse, any player may think that injecting 300k of kuva can make Soma prime better than Synapse but that doesn't work and all we have to recommend is "build more weapons and maximize your mods to really progress in the game"

the novice player may say that riven's disposition indicator is a progression indicator but this is not true as riven's disposition indicator doesn't properly inform that Soma Prime with 3 dots is many times worse than an Phantasma non primed also with 3 dots.

for me the game progression continues to be overshadowed by the lack of information within the game itself, the account level only informs how much the player is a weapon collector, the formed weapons inform only how much the player likes to waste time inside about the game.

 

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17 minutes ago, Famecans said:

"Thanks for showing us, now I'm going to spend forma's on my Tiberon prime and retire Soma after buying it from prime resusgence for a few dollars."

Guy, do you realize how fair it is to ask for upgrades considering that this weapon does not indicate any progression and is sold as a primed part in resurgence?

any novice player may think that Soma prime is better than a Synapse, any player may think that injecting 300k of kuva can make Soma prime better than Synapse but that doesn't work and all we have to recommend is "build more weapons and maximize your mods to really progress in the game"

the novice player may say that riven's disposition indicator is a progression indicator but this is not true as riven's disposition indicator doesn't properly inform that Soma Prime with 3 dots is many times worse than an Phantasma non primed also with 3 dots.

for me the game progression continues to be overshadowed by the lack of information within the game itself, the account level only informs how much the player is a weapon collector, the formed weapons inform only how much the player likes to waste time inside about the game.

 

Ignorance of the mechanics and rules doesn't actually change them. 

DE has made multiple announcements about riven dispositions.

New and old players have countless ways to obtain information.

If you really need it, please ask and I will list all these avenues and/or answer any questions you have about dispositions and modding.

Just to reiterate and be clear: no one is forcing you to rush through the game or forcing you to use single target weapons. Efficiency is your choice, and you have the tools to be as fast as you want. People that want enjoy the game in other ways also have their choice. 

You are given near-infinite permutations to make any build you want. You can have a Harrow in your group while you are Nidus with his primary CC augment (I tried it...246 Crit chance...), with a Min-maxed Roar Rhino and Chroma for even more damage. This is why these abilities exist. 

If you for some reason feel you're forced to solo instead of make a team....you can still make the Soma useable for the highest tier of content. 

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11 часов назад, Famecans сказал:

loadout completely focused on soma prime = waste of time... it's possible to do better with another weapon less forma and works in any loadout.

Soma Prime is focused on high crit multplier and slash damage "but" this high crit damage doesn't work as base damage is insufficient to be multiplied and slash doesn't work as base stat is low and elemental mods will reduce slash effectiveness.

"wow, we can use hunter munitions and faction mods..." well, good strategy to waste a lot of mod slots and be less effectiveness than a sporotrix or supra vandal

Funny you say that, as i am an avid Hunter Munitions hater and refuse to put it into any of my loadouts.

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7 hours ago, Famecans said:

"Thanks for showing us, now I'm going to spend forma's on my Tiberon prime and retire Soma after buying it from prime resusgence for a few dollars."

Sure , that's totally your choice.

7 hours ago, Famecans said:

Guy, do you realize how fair it is to ask for upgrades considering that this weapon does not indicate any progression and is sold as a primed part in resurgence?

No , i do not feel it is fair to ask for upgrades cause you lack the ability to control your spending or ability to do basic research.

Different weapons are sold at different times in the resurgence , nor do you actually need to spend dollars to buy them. That is completely on you.

7 hours ago, Famecans said:

any novice player may think that Soma prime is better than a Synapse, any player may think that injecting 300k of kuva can make Soma prime better than Synapse but that doesn't work 

Not sure why you are mentioning synapse specifically , they can both perform well if built right and if a player does have 300k kuva i would hardly call them novice.

7 hours ago, Famecans said:

 all we have to recommend is "build more weapons and maximize your mods to really progress in the game"

Yes , that is a majority of the games progression , you build weapons you enjoy them (or not) and you use it to get better and stronger loadouts.

You can also build a good weapon poorly and have it perform worse if you don't have the right mods.

I fail to see why that is a problem.

7 hours ago, Famecans said:

the novice player may say that riven's disposition indicator is a progression indicator but this is not true as riven's disposition indicator doesn't properly inform that Soma Prime with 3 dots is many times worse than an Phantasma non primed also with 3 dots.

That's why they are novice , they don't know better , and should ask for advice or go through trial and error if they want to figure things out themselves.

They will learn as they play and not stay a novice.

7 hours ago, Famecans said:

for me the game progression continues to be overshadowed by the lack of information within the game itself, the account level only informs how much the player is a weapon collector, the formed weapons inform only how much the player likes to waste time inside about the game.

This is partially true , the game performs very poorly with regards to sharing the right information with players at the right time.

And the level/power indicator might as well be absent ,

It is overly complex with a very large difference between power just on a few changes.

If you are the kind of player that wants to be guided fairly , then the game is not going to be for you.

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19 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The point of progressing through the game is to be able to do ridiculous amounts of modding...

If you don't want to mod properly, you have the entire regular starchart, sorties, invasions, relic fissures etc. 

But I'm assuming you're asking for a buff because you went to steel path solo and discovered your weapon fell off at 20 minutes? 

Can you clarify for us what mission you were in to warrant deciding the soma needs a buff? You didn't provide much information....

I never went into sp with it its plain and simple I just want the weapon buffed no other reason or explanation needed 

I mean sure it can still perform alright to this day but I just want it to be upgraded to match weapons we have today is that so hard to understand

 

Edited by (PSN)WolfMoom213
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On 2022-12-10 at 1:22 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

Not sure why you are mentioning synapse specifically , they can both perform well if built right and if a player does have 300k kuva i would hardly call them novice.

Man, seriously... I'll show you this next week, unfortunately I can't record my screen today. Soma Prime sucks for the purpose of "the critical slasher auto rifle", Soma Prime is one of those weapons that you need to build the specific loadout to do less damage than other weapons totally independent of loadouts or rivens

I know there is a whole special mechanic behind slash and faction mods but I feel trends that this mechanic will become broken in future updates if the DE intends to balance all the obsolete weapons also related to the mobile warframe. all my builds are focused on maximum weapon efficiency but not specific to a single faction. I think faction-focused builds are only suited for bosses and levels non casual gameplay.

We are PC players(mouse/keyboard) he has a console with a joystick and that's better than touchscreen that's coming, can you see that? It is possible to predict the future with this:

On 2022-12-10 at 9:52 AM, (PSN)WolfMoom213 said:

I never went into sp with it its plain and simple I just want the weapon buffed no other reason or explanation needed 

I mean sure it can still perform alright to this day but I just want it to be upgraded to match weapons we have today is that so hard to understand

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7 hours ago, Famecans said:

Man, seriously... I'll show you this next week, unfortunately I can't record my screen today. Soma Prime sucks for the purpose of "the critical slasher auto rifle", Soma Prime is one of those weapons that you need to build the specific loadout to do less damage than other weapons totally independent of loadouts or rivens

I know there are better weapons that do things more effectively , not the point i am making.

Not every weapon will be better than the best , some will just be a stepping stone.

Also please do share which weapon you think is the better "critical slasher auto rifle" looking forward to your video.

7 hours ago, Famecans said:

I know there is a whole special mechanic behind slash and faction mods but I feel trends that this mechanic will become broken in future updates if the DE intends to balance all the obsolete weapons also related to the mobile warframe. all my builds are focused on maximum weapon efficiency but not specific to a single faction. I think faction-focused builds are only suited for bosses and levels non casual gameplay.

I Don't use faction mods (unless one happens to show up in a Riven i have ).

7 hours ago, Famecans said:

We are PC players(mouse/keyboard) he has a console with a joystick and that's better than touchscreen that's coming, can you see that? It is possible to predict the future with this:

Not sure how that is relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

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37 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Do you consider Synapse a rifle?   I'd be pretty shocked if the Soma Prime comes very close to it.

Beam and Auto hitscan rifle , they are pretty similar and are comparable in my opinion.

But synapse doesn't have innate slash So i doubt it , though anything can be considered a "slasher weapon " with hunter munitions applied ,

Synapse having innate corrosive does get some advantage but it also loses out on other IPS status effects that boost galvanized aptitude bonuses.

Not to mention the damage spooling - though spooling is present in Soma too.

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7 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Beam and Auto hitscan rifle , they are pretty similar and are comparable in my opinion.

But synapse doesn't have innate slash So i doubt it , though anything can be considered a "slasher weapon " with hunter munitions applied ,

Synapse having innate corrosive does get some advantage but it also loses out on other IPS status effects that boost galvanized aptitude bonuses.

Not to mention the damage spooling - though spooling is present in Soma too.

Yeah, I'd consider HM a given on either weapon for the "crit slasher auto rifle" role.   

I've got a video comparison.  There's some problems with it.  I really should have equipped an extinguished key to improve the resolution some more, as targets just die really fast with either weapon.  Also I would normally let bleeds finish off targets, but for fairness' sake I tried taking these targets down to zero before moving on.  But there are a couple of places where I my habits kicked in and I moved on early with the Synapse. 

I'm not 100% sure that's the best Soma build.  I just did one very quick test (off video) to decide between the augment, Point Strike, and Crit Delay.

Soma  // Synapse

TTK of first target, no stacks: 10s // 7s

TTK of first group: 28s // 22s

TTK of second group:  15s // 12s

Call it a 20% difference, basically.

Honestly, it's closer than I thought it would be.  I think the Synapse got a bit of a testing advantage in the last group due to mistakes on my part.  (Though I doubt this came out to more than a second.)

One key difference between the two that I didn't think of beforehand:  Soma is  low recoil, but it still has an effect on my accuracy.  Synapse's zero recoil was helpful even in this controlled environment.

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8 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, I'd consider HM a given on either weapon for the "crit slasher auto rifle" role.   

I've got a video comparison.  There's some problems with it.  I really should have equipped an extinguished key to improve the resolution some more, as targets just die really fast with either weapon.  Also I would normally let bleeds finish off targets, but for fairness' sake I tried taking these targets down to zero before moving on.  But there are a couple of places where I my habits kicked in and I moved on early with the Synapse. 

I'm not 100% sure that's the best Soma build.  I just did one very quick test (off video) to decide between the augment, Point Strike, and Crit Delay.

Soma  // Synapse

TTK of first target, no stacks: 10s // 7s

TTK of first group: 28s // 22s

TTK of second group:  15s // 12s

Call it a 20% difference, basically.

Honestly, it's closer than I thought it would be.  I think the Synapse got a bit of a testing advantage in the last group due to mistakes on my part.  (Though I doubt this came out to more than a second.)

One key difference between the two that I didn't think of beforehand:  Soma is  low recoil, but it still has an effect on my accuracy.  Synapse's zero recoil was helpful even in this controlled environment.

Not too different from my observation (though eximus units can screw things a bit thanks to the cold auras) - though most ARs are better with punch through.

i need roughly 10 seconds for the ramp up of the soma (galvanized mods and arcanes with 5 kills , not just the hata satya) until it becomes sustainable,

and then 25 seconds for the rest of the enemies (15 kills) - can probably get more if in a line and if i only take headshots

The synapse on the other hand also takes about 11 seconds ramp up (galvanized mods and arcanes with 5 kills)

and then 20 seconds for the rest of the enemies (15 kills) - can also get more in a line

I probably wasted more time in alligning my shots on the soma , but i also had better punchthrough so i think it evens out?

I am not going to calculate and check each tic for the DPS though others are free to do so - the synapse is the clear winner.

 

And yes - i used rivens - but luckily i had pretty much identical rivens for both and it evens out - though i understand this is not fair anymore. I could probably use a combination of abilities and status effects to show practical use cases , but if i wanted that i would have done a few runs on steel path instead (and the synapse still wins based on past experiences).

The point is that there is about 20% difference between the both of them when built well - but the synapse needed a hefty 5 forma while the Soma needed only 3 (if that means anything to anyone) ,

the soma is also more verstaile and can be built for other factions and perform similarly , while the synapse is best on armor thanks to the corrosive effect

 

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28 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Not too different from my observation (though eximus units can screw things a bit thanks to the cold auras) - though most ARs are better with punch through.

The cold aura only affects move speed. 

And yeah, I'd feel naked without PT on either of these in actual missions.  Since this basically forces using a riven to consolidate some mods, then the Synapse's dispo becomes another factor.

 

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26 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

The cold aura only affects move speed.

yeah , making it slower overall to get aligned,

26 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

And yeah, I'd feel naked without PT on either of these in actual missions.  Since this basically forces using a riven to consolidate some mods, then the Synapse's dispo becomes another factor.

since they are both affected equally the actual difference is not extremely large as you yourself have shown.

 

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7 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

since they are both affected equally the actual difference is not extremely large as you yourself have shown.

Oh no, not extremely large.  But larger than my test, given two hypothetical rivens with the same damage-related affixes and equivalent rolls within their spread.  For instance, using Semlar 3/1...

Synapse: 132.6 to 162.1% Critical Damage

Soma Prime: 111.4 to 136.1% Critical Damage

Soma tops out only slightly above where Synapse begins.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2022-12-12 at 4:10 AM, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, I'd consider HM a given on either weapon for the "crit slasher auto rifle" role.   

I've got a video comparison.  There's some problems with it.  I really should have equipped an extinguished key to improve the resolution some more, as targets just die really fast with either weapon.  Also I would normally let bleeds finish off targets, but for fairness' sake I tried taking these targets down to zero before moving on.  But there are a couple of places where I my habits kicked in and I moved on early with the Synapse. 

I'm not 100% sure that's the best Soma build.  I just did one very quick test (off video) to decide between the augment, Point Strike, and Crit Delay.

Spoiler

Soma  // Synapse

TTK of first target, no stacks: 10s // 7s

TTK of first group: 28s // 22s

TTK of second group:  15s // 12s

Call it a 20% difference, basically.

Honestly, it's closer than I thought it would be.  I think the Synapse got a bit of a testing advantage in the last group due to mistakes on my part.  (Though I doubt this came out to more than a second.)

One key difference between the two that I didn't think of beforehand:  Soma is  low recoil, but it still has an effect on my accuracy.  Synapse's zero recoil was helpful even in this controlled environment.

On 2022-12-12 at 12:59 PM, 0_The_F00l said:

Not too different from my observation (though eximus units can screw things a bit thanks to the cold auras) - though most ARs are better with punch through.

Spoiler

i need roughly 10 seconds for the ramp up of the soma (galvanized mods and arcanes with 5 kills , not just the hata satya) until it becomes sustainable,

and then 25 seconds for the rest of the enemies (15 kills) - can probably get more if in a line and if i only take headshots

The synapse on the other hand also takes about 11 seconds ramp up (galvanized mods and arcanes with 5 kills)

and then 20 seconds for the rest of the enemies (15 kills) - can also get more in a line

I probably wasted more time in alligning my shots on the soma , but i also had better punchthrough so i think it evens out?

I am not going to calculate and check each tic for the DPS though others are free to do so - the synapse is the clear winner.

 

And yes - i used rivens - but luckily i had pretty much identical rivens for both and it evens out - though i understand this is not fair anymore. I could probably use a combination of abilities and status effects to show practical use cases , but if i wanted that i would have done a few runs on steel path instead (and the synapse still wins based on past experiences).

The point is that there is about 20% difference between the both of them when built well - but the synapse needed a hefty 5 forma while the Soma needed only 3 (if that means anything to anyone) ,

the soma is also more verstaile and can be built for other factions and perform similarly , while the synapse is best on armor thanks to the corrosive effect

[Hata Satya] has a maximum efficiency of 500% critical chance but it is "very" ("very") difficult to make the maximum critical chance without the combo [Primed Shred] + [Primed Magazine Warp] and that's two fk slots spent for horrible gameplay efficiency. I tested Xaku Xata's and Mag Magnetize and it doesn't work for hitscan weapons, I haven't tested it recently but it probably doesn't work.

basically it takes 400+ hits (without reloading), equipping [primed warp magazine] is only 300 ammo and that includes skill boosts for more firerate or the ideal setting to really work punch througth from [Primed Shred].

but the problems didn't end... even with punch througth and firerate solving half of the problems, Soma Prime as an auto rifle doesn't work properly for hordes because the reload time is also very bad...

Soma Prime has very low total damage;
the augment mod depends on at least two mods or frame skill;
the crit slasher purpose doesn't really work without tricks and relies on an extremely proper loadout;
weapons like Synapse of the same category work best;
weapons like Zhuge(not primed) works much better for bleed purpose
(I don't know what the trick is as Zhuge is visibly puncture focused)

changes to build shown above: just replace damage [serration] by [galvanized aptitude]; replace the [heat mod] by [hunter munition]; and replace [vigillant armaments] by [bane faction mod] and that's it

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55 minutes ago, Famecans said:

[Hata Satya] has a maximum efficiency of 500% critical chance but it is "very" ("very") difficult to make the maximum critical chance without the combo [Primed Shred] + [Primed Magazine Warp] and that's two fk slots spent for horrible gameplay efficiency. I tested Xaku Xata's and Mag Magnetize and it doesn't work for hitscan weapons, I haven't tested it recently but it probably doesn't work.

Yes , bullet attractor doesn't work well with hitscan weapon with punchthrough. Thats why i avoid xatas whisper on most of my xaku builds , it tends to get in the way more than it provides a boost and i mostly use projectile weapons with mag.

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

basically it takes 400+ hits (without reloading), equipping [primed warp magazine] is only 300 ammo and that includes skill boosts for more firerate or the ideal setting to really work punch througth from [Primed Shred].

multishot works for hata satya so you are wrong in your assumption of number of shots needed - you do need to get it ramped up properly to notice but with a maxed galvanized chamber you get 230% multishot that's 3.3 hits possible in a single hitscan, even more with vigilante armaments at 3.9

you need 416.666 hits to max out , so thats actually 127 multishot hits (107 with vigilante), even lower if you hit more than one target due to punchthrough , which still leaves you with more than half your magazine without using a magazine mod. i have already shown this as well.

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

but the problems didn't end... even with punch througth and firerate solving half of the problems, Soma Prime as an auto rifle doesn't work properly for hordes because the reload time is also very bad...

Fire rate and punchthough actually solves more than half the problems ,

but yes, a 3 second reload is rather annoying good thing there are mods that can help you around it for auto reload on holster and auto reload on mercy,

Its also a good thing that warframe isn't a horde shooter - it only appears that way cause most players refuse to lay anythng other than those modes,

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

Soma Prime has very low total damage;

True - it has been power crept over the years.

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

the augment mod depends on at least two mods or frame skill;

Mods which should be on it anyway (Multishot and puncthrough) , but ok ,

frame skill is kinda a slippery slope any weapon can be made better if paired with the right skill.

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

the crit slasher purpose doesn't really work without tricks and relies on an extremely proper loadout;

This is true for most of the weapons in the game.

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

weapons like Synapse of the same category work best;

They work better for sure in a simulacrum,

and there will always be a best for a given scenario not everything can be best.

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

weapons like Zhuge(not primed) works much better for bleed purpose

(I don't know what the trick is as Zhuge is visibly puncture focused)

cause they have much higher base damage and can take advantage of thunderbolt probably.

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

That video feels .... doctored to fail? sorry if that was not your intention , but picking so much viral weighting and not picking hunter munitions just means you will not proc slash especially with such low status chance ,

and while viral procs are great , the actual viral damage is not , not to mention you have units that are outright immune to it.

If you want to create a genuine comparison dont do this, dont build it poorly to prove its poor  , build it to its strengths.

You also havent used the same galvanized mods as available to tiberon for soma P for some reason,

2 hours ago, Famecans said:

changes to build shown above: just replace damage [serration] by [galvanized aptitude]; replace the [heat mod] by [hunter munition]; and replace [vigillant armaments] by [bane faction mod] and that's it

And ... why didnt you?

and what do you mean by "thats it" ?

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Shouldn't we be comparing Soma/Soma Prime to weapons in their weight class, and not weapons five to seven classes above them? Talking 'bout a MR7 weapon going against a MR11 (Synapse), and an MR14 (Tiberon Prime). How many MR7 weapons are competing with gear that doesn't need too much work to handle Steel Path? 

My Astilla Prime, a MR14 Shotgun with forced AoE Impact Procs, Corrosive + Heat, Primary Deadhead/Primary Merciless, Galvanized Hell, Galvanized Shot, Primed Point Blank, Primed Ravage, Critical Deceleration, a Riven with 78% Critical Damage, 78% Critical Chance, 76% Heat can still hit struggle bus TTK in Steel Path against Grineer. I mean, this is why we all primarily build for Viral + Slash if we can and just remove armor. Once armor is no longer a factor for Grineer, the Soma Prime does just fine. 

Edited by (PSN)FunyFlyBoy
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