Felarx: the best worst most confusing mess of a gun

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

The Felarx is an absolute mess of a gun.

Art design: fantastic. It looks and sounds great, especially in incarnon mode. Hats off to the art/sound folks.

Raw damage: very deadly, but also very late game and it's peers are better.

Usability: er, how did it end up with...

Regular mode is a full auto shotgun with per-shell loading. It's a pretty great shotgun, with the only real problem being building incarnon mode takes headshots and it's a shotgun. It can have good crit and good status, or evolve high status and +2000% on ½ your non-crit shots.

Incarnon mode loses some damage, and spread, and goes from auto to semi, but gets a little range and a 3x crit mult. In short, it's a real, objective, downgrade from the base shotgun.

But it gets worse: the Felarx is an evolving weapon, with 4 choices of 3 boons that boost your gun. This should allow massive build variety, but in practice it makes it worse: one of the final evolutions is the +2000% damage one, the other two don't affect incarnon mode at all, and are highly situational relatively low buffs. As there's only one choice here that means only one for the 4th evolution too (the +status -crit one) and that nerfs the 3x crit incarnon mode had. You basically evolve out incarnon mode.

I find this a baffling design decision - you're not even presented with a choice of building for base or incarnon, you have one choice that locks in base, nobody uses incarnon mode (except when they run out of shotgun ammo).

Why does incarnon mode do less damage? Why is it lower damage AND semi/slower fire? How did this get through playtesting? Why is it still a mess over a year later.

I love the art design, I want to be able to use it, but honestly having a useless incarnon mode is just frustrating.

It wouldn't be hard to fix this gun:

- give it the 5th level evolutions from the Laetum and have all of them affect incarnon mode.

- boost the incarnon mode:

  1. Add AoE

  2. Make it home in on targets

- basically, incarnon mode should work something like the Akarius

- if this ends up too powerful just reduce how many incarnon shots it gets.

Incarnon mode should feel like a brief supercharged boost, not an objective nerf.

[Zaghyr]

Incarnon Mode for this gun is so disappointing, which is baffling considering how great the others are. IMO, the Incarnon Mode needs the following:

• Much Higher Damage, prob around 900 or more.
• Slash Damage mixed into the damage spread, with a higher weight than Impact.
• Much Faster Fire Rate
• Be AOE like the projectile itself suggests and possibly larger
• Work with Ammo Efficiency Evolutions

As long as this this mode does so little damage and fire so slowly, it will never be worth using.

[Mazifet]

I find the Incarnon mode is actually much better when dealing with crowds due to the high punch-through. If I see a large group of steel path enemies coming towards me, a couple shots of the Incarnon mode kills them all, where the base form can't really do that.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

9 hours ago, Zaghyr said:

As long as this this mode does so little damage and fire so slowly, it will never be worth using

It's the fire slowly combined with lower damage. It's about ⅔ of the shotgun damage.

I think that would be OK with AoE...

6 hours ago, Mazifet said:

If I see a large group of steel path enemies coming towards me, a couple shots of the Incarnon mode kills them all

Yeah, you can punch down a corridor with it and you can sort of snipe (but no zoom and the shotgun mode is already quite long range for a shotty), but these are situational - it would make sense for an alt-fire that gave you another tool.

But this is incarnon mode - you have to build up to it, switching is slow, and then if you switch back you've lost it. It's explicitly not a situational tool.

6 hours ago, Mazifet said:

a couple shots of the Incarnon mode kills them all, where the base form can't really do that

There's an evolution that adds fire rate on reload, and shotguns get both prime reload and prime magazine. With both the shotgun becomes like the Kohm, you can just mow down corridors, burning through an extended clip faster than you can fire the incarnon mode twice.

Even the narrow situation where punch through trumps shotgun spread the base mode is better or comparable.

It's just baffling how poor the incarnon mode for this gun is.

[(PSN)BuzzZaw82]

I've built the other three Zariman Weapons but not this due to cost and yea, it's a mixed bag of a mess. Plus I have far better Shotguns at hand to begin with...Kuva Hek, Phantasma, Khom...even my Phage (with Riven) is better than this....shame as it's one nice gun but needs some re-work...

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

39 minutes ago, (PSN)BuzzZaw82 said:

I've built the other three Zariman Weapons but not this due to cost and yea, it's a mixed bag of a mess. Plus I have far better Shotguns at hand to begin with...Kuva Hek, Phantasma, Khom...even my Phage (with Riven) is better than this....shame as it's one nice gun but needs some re-work

It's weaker than the Laetum or Phenmor, due to those having awesome incarnon modes. However, despite the Felarx having a weak incarnon mode its base shotgun is right up there.

It's not really fair to compare it to the Phantasma or Phage as they're beam stat spreaders that work quite differently.

It doesn't quite match the Kuva Hek for raw damage, that still has alt fire highest burst damage of any shotgun, but I find the Felarx is better at consistent damage, especially for bosses.

The Kuva Kohm is an interesting comparison - the Felarx gets an evolution that boosts fire rate per shell, combined with the primed magazine mod for shotties and it can empty a clip as fast as the Kohm at full tilt and it does a lot more damage per shot.

That's what makes this such a weird, conflicted mess. The design doesn't work at all, but what does work is excellent.

[Skoomaseller]

I quite like Felarx's Incarnon Form, more so than Phenmor's or Laetum's. Though I agree Evolution V for Felarx is rather lackluster.

Sure, devastating attrition leads to le funny damage, but having it be the only perk that affects Incarnon Form is a bit odd.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Famecans]

incarnon sound reminds doom plasma rifle, i like that

Spoiler

 

 

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

6 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

, devastating attrition leads to le funny damage, but having it be the only perk that affects Incarnon Form is a bit odd.

It also means you can't build for crit, and incarnon mode really needs to build for that 3x crit multiplier.

6 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I quite like Felarx's Incarnon Form

I want to...

6 hours ago, Famecans said:

incarnon sound reminds doom plasma rifle, i like that

The art and especially sound design on it are fantastic. I love the sound, but I still don't end up using it because it's a downgrade.

[Almxce]

Felarx is definitely very strange. Base form can shred, the Incarnon form is weird but very enjoyable and they buffed it from its initial release. As mentioned earlier in the thread the Incarnon mode can shred in Steel Path if you can group enemies and take advantage of the high punch through, having a Frame or another method that can increase Fire Rate adds to that as well. Currently I use it with Gauss (Redline)/Mach Crash. It requires a bit of thinking/set up so it probably isn't a weapon that everyone will enjoy or be meta but I'd actually like them to release more weapons that are a bit weird/require some thinking and use of other systems in-game to find good interactions.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

3 hours ago, Almxce said:

I'd actually like them to release more weapons that are a bit weird/require some thinking and use of other systems in-game to find good interactions

I'm a fan of these kinds of guns, but this...

3 hours ago, Almxce said:

Incarnon mode can shred in Steel Path if you can group enemies and take advantage of the high punch through, having a Frame or another method that can increase Fire Rate adds to that as wel

Is a lot of effort to made what should be the super bonus mode of the gun work.

And if you have grouped up enemies like that the shotgun still shreds faster and can get extra punch through from an evolution.

It's not that it's bad in isolation, if this was an MR12-14 dual pistol you'd slap pistol crit mods on it and have a blast. It's that it's the effort and setup ends up being a downgrade for the gun.

It's baffling. It looks and sounds so good, but then every time you use it you're killing enemies slower than you were before.

[-AncientWarrior-]

I hated the Felarx when i first used it for a week.. Phenmor and Laetum just work so much better and they gel well with their incarnon forms.. so I put the Felarx away.  But lately i have been using it again, only I dont bother using the incarnon form, I find it a really crazy incarnon form that doesnt activate the incarnon mode very well and it just doesnt gel well, shoots slower, kills a lot slower.. seems like a downgrade to me  .. If you look at both others that get massive increase fire rate full auto DE should have made the Felarx incarnon form that equates to the same as these 2.. But the shotgun mode is pretty good with the +2000 damage bonus.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

I hated the Felarx when i first used it for a week.. Phenmor and Laetum just work so much better and they gel well with their incarnon forms.. so I put the Felarx away.  But lately i have been using it again, only I dont bother using the incarnon form, ...

But the shotgun mode is pretty good with the +2000 damage bonus.

This is pretty much what everyone who has used it says.

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

If you look at both others that get massive increase fire rate full auto DE should have made the Felarx incarnon form that equates to the same as these 2

If it worked like the other two it would switch from Boar/Strun mode to Kohm mode, and while that would be cool (super infinite-ammo Kohm appeals) I like how inventive the design is... like, wait, incarnon mode is a dual pistol? That should be more fun.

It's just...

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

it just doesnt gel well, shoots slower, kills a lot slower.. seems like a downgrade to me

Yeah. That.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

I was just going to make a thread of my own to feedback on the Felarx, but I'm glad I noticed this thread first. 

The usability in my opinion is a complete mess just like you said. The shotgun mode is offensively much better than the Incarnon form, and the Incarnon form's only real advantage is that you no longer have to reload, for a while that is. With my current build, the shotgun mode deals approximately 30% more damage per shot with a higher rate of fire, and since the shotgun mode has base slash damage, it also gets massive slash procs thanks to its innate slash damage. You also proc more status with the shotgun's several pellets. Meanwhile the other Incarnon weapons just get a flat bonus to their DPS along with the infinite ammo economy.

The gun is amazing, but it could also be so much more fun to use.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Wyrmius_Prime

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

23 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Meanwhile the other Incarnon weapons just get a flat bonus to their DPS along with the infinite ammo economy.

Honestly I like the idea of the Felarx being completely different. Phenmore and Laetum just go semi->auto, I think there's real potential here for a fun weapon.

On 2023-01-07 at 5:36 PM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The gun is amazing, but it could also be so much more fun to use.

Exactly! What should be a really fun weapon ends up feeling disappointing just because of that wasted potential.

[Kaichi16]

i think the only thing this gun needs is "being able to use Internal Bleeding". 

that'd make her incarnon mode hellish stronger. 

it also doesnt make much sense... a shotgun(normal mode) being faster than dual pistols(incarnon mode)? maybe if it was another kind of weapon.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

9 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

i think the only thing this gun needs is "being able to use Internal Bleeding". 

that'd make her incarnon mode hellish stronger

That's a pistol mod, it would have to mod as a pistol.

However, as a primary the Felarx can use Hunter Munitions, so you can max crit and do heavy 3x crit Slash procs with the incarnon mode.

Only...

That does less damage (a lot less damage) more slowly (wait for Slash ticks) than +2000% on 45% of your shots on a min crit rapid fire shotgun.

If it had the Laetum's 5th evolution that added +400% for 10s that HM Slash build would work, but it would probably still work better on the rapid fire shotgun mode (as it would be much easier to keep the stack of buffs up).

11 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

it also doesnt make much sense... a shotgun(normal mode) being faster than dual pistols(incarnon mode)? maybe if it was another kind of weapon

Yeah, so many of the Felarx's evolution buffs end up being about rate of fire, it feels like the dual pistols should be full auto, or even beam weapons.

Actually, we don't have an akimbo beam weapon yet, so that would be interesting and unique.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2023-01-04 at 10:34 PM, Zaghyr said:

Be AOE like the projectile itself suggests and possibly larger

If that's what you want the Incarnon Strun seems to be the gun that does that

 

 

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

Why is it such a big deal that one incarnon weapon's normal mode is better then the incarnon? We all know how insanely strong the primary fire is.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Why is it such a big deal that one incarnon weapon's normal mode is better then the incarnon? We all know how insanely strong the primary fire is.

I don't know that it's a big deal, but it grates on me a bit. Phenmor and Laetum have a very pleasing feedback cycle that gets my pavlov glands flowing:  hit headshots, hear the angel's chorus sing in triumph, get access to ZOMG Mode for a while.  And repeat. 

But with Felarx when those angels start hollering, it's like junkmail that I instantly delete because it just says that  Meh Mode is available, hooray.  I still love headshotting with it, but going akimbo is basically not worth pressing the button and sitting through the animations to me.

To this day, I think DE might have accidentally left a radial damage component off of its Incarnon mode, since there is a visual explosion-like effect.

People will hate me for even saying this, but I'd personally be fine with a somewhat weaker regular mode in return for a better Incarnon mode.  Best of all would be something where Incarnon is really enticing, but I could still see some situational advantages to regular.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

People will hate me for even saying this, but I'd personally be fine with a somewhat weaker regular mode in return for a better Incarnon mode. 

I mean, that is the Strun Incarnon. One big explodey beam instead of two smaller ones, but same corridor clearing effect.

The fact that that exists makes the Felarx look like an oversight, not a choice.

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

o this day, I think DE might have accidentally left a radial damage component off of its Incarnon mode, since there is a visual explosion-like effect

Yeah, exactly.

[Famecans]

I'm not sure if the information below is useful/functional for [Ferlax] as I have my [Ferlax] build focused on Archon hunts.

I was watching Braton Incarnon, Evolution 4 / Perk 3: Prelude of Might: With Critical Chance Below 50%, Increase Critical Damage by +3.4x (Braton) / +3.3x (MK1) / +3x (Prime) / +3 ( Vandal), It showed me a different path.

This means that exaggerated values of critical damage at small percentages of critical chance are enough to make [Serration] and [Split Chamber] mods really insignificant, with this it is possible to use mods like [Vigilante Set], [Arcane Avenger] and [Abilities of Warframe] to make scary red numbers.

The shotguns in general are very unbalanced because there are many incompatible mods, the multiple shot is out of control and there are many primed mods that when combined with riven mods easily exceed the maximum capacity of the weapon.

Whenever I activate Ferlax's incarnon mode I feel like I have two very powerful pistols in my hands causing impact damage that goes through several enemies "however" the [Hemorrhage] mod is not a shotgun mod because there are many shotguns with impact damage.

Particularly, I would love to improve only one stat in Felarx Incarnon mode, the recoil should be lower, 50% lower.

thanks for reading👍