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Waverider probably needs an overhaul


LtGerres
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This quest is a bane for players who want to collect frames but do not care about hoverboarding. Sure, it's an interesting travesal mechanic for about 10 minutes, until you remember that Archwing is still faster and can go in a line as opposed to following natural features. But doing tricks? No thanks. I tried it, because I want the frame for my collection, but it's just not fun and now I'm stuck on that quest. I appreciate the idea of giving the players something different. But it would also have been nice to not limit the group of players able to complete the quests to the few people who love hoverboarding and some others who like breaking their heads through walls with sheer tenacity. Personally I know noone who completed that quest and they all are various degrees of miffed.

Here's my ideas:

1) Remove the "achieve XY points in tricks" and change pretty much every single entry except for the race points on level 5 (according to the wiki that all also falls under the category of "you no good at tricks, piss off").

2) Remove the "copykavat" debuff so chains are easier to do by mindlessly - but at least successfully - repeating the same trick over and over without being arbitrarily hit with reduced points and sudden end of the streak.

Alternatively, if you really don't want to change anything, please give an "abort quest" button, the quest notifier on the top of my screen bothers me for over a year by now.

Edited by LtGerres
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I might agree if this was the case for 10 or so warframes. But this is one warframe that actually has a k-drive. I do not see a problem if this is a bit difficult for some players.

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i had no problem doing this quest, except it's really fking boring.

like, wao, seriously, DE? you lock a frame behind a secondary mechanic quest that nobody uses?

it's like locking titania behind a 30min archwing quest where you have to do tricks. 

oh and it's even worse: you have to finish each part, then go back to your ship, then go back to fortuna, then do another part, then ship, fortuna, ship, fortuna, ffs

just let me finish this in one go, i didn't even want to play it from the start.

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There will always be elitist pricks that say that you are no good if you can't finish this or that. I pity those poor souls who feel the need to crap on others. They don't seem to understand the insanely hard concept of preferences.

And yes that quest is awful. I'm on part 4 and nothing in me wants to have anything to do with this piece of sh1t anymore. My brain refuses to learn the tricks and finish the quest.

For reference, as a programmer my daily job is 50x harder and I STILL don't want to learn the K-Drive tricks. It's not about lack of ability; it's about hating that content with a passion.

I suspect I'll leave my wife to do the remaining parts of the quest for me. This is  truly one of the very few parts of Warframe that made me grind my teeth.

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12 hours ago, Gofretko said:

There will always be elitist pricks that say that you are no good if you can't finish this or that. I pity those poor souls who feel the need to crap on others. They don't seem to understand the insanely hard concept of preferences.

And yes that quest is awful. I'm on part 4 and nothing in me wants to have anything to do with this piece of sh1t anymore. My brain refuses to learn the tricks and finish the quest.

For reference, as a programmer my daily job is 50x harder and I STILL don't want to learn the K-Drive tricks. It's not about lack of ability; it's about hating that content with a passion.

I suspect I'll leave my wife to do the remaining parts of the quest for me. This is  truly one of the very few parts of Warframe that made me grind my teeth.

Thanks for calling out the Elitism problem with this quest.

 

as for me, even with a willingness to try and learn the tricks

I simply found that I lacked the coordination to actually pull off the chains needed for the X Score milestones.

-even the supposed 'easy' cheeze methods I wasn't capable of

2 weeks of people just saying to try harder isn't help

eventually gave up and just bought yareli

 

-so now, my only problem is getting triggered every time I visit the fortuna and have to see a kid with a broken neck laying there -forever-

 

 

Quest really needs to be reworked. DE should check the statistics for how many planers have it activated, but stalled.

 

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I agree the copy kavat thing is trash and it only exists to make farming vent kid standing harder than it already is, and given daily standing caps are a thing it's incredibly pointless and anti-fun. I'll also add the fact that the game doesn't count anything you do unless you have more than a certain amount of momentum in any given direction except up or down is a bit odd and frustrating.

But the quest isn't difficult and it's asking you to learn mechanics that the frame you earn from it is specifically built around using. If you hate k-draves so much that you can't be bothered to figure out the relatively simple things the quest asks you to do you'll hate Yareli so why bother with it?

The one thing I can think of that might stump people are the "gain x standing form a k-drive race" ones. And that's because different races award different amounts of standing based on how many checkpoints they have. You can do a short one 100 times and not clear these objectives. But completing a longer one is nearly a guaranteed clear for even the highest value it asks you to get (seems to be roughly 200 standing per checkpoint in the race + a time and/or trick bonus). That'll mostly be rng on what k-drive races are available at the time. That's a bit of knowledge the game doesn't think to give you.

If you only care about Yareli for mastery, then you'll be caring about k-drives for mastery too anyways.

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I will never understand the types of people who want k-drive frame but don't want to put in the effort to learn the basics of k-driving.

It's not hard. Just stop spamming the same trick twice in a row and learn to do copter -> flip -> sideswipe or something. I won't pretend waverider is a great quest but come on. Git gud.

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13 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

I will never understand the types of people who want k-drive frame but don't want to put in the effort to learn the basics of k-driving.

Mastery rank points.

There. You can sleep in peace now. You finally understand the secrets of the universe.

And no I won't git gud on that particular skill that I care zero about. I'll have somebody else do the quest for me. Hopefully you will live knowing that such things happen.

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Just did it again going for K-Driven.

Sure it might need improvements but if you know about grinding on Orb Vallis which is one of the main features of the K-drive and a somewhat built out board then most of your problems are taken care of.

I'd say go to the Plains to get K-Drive slam kills cause the hitbox on that is about the same size as Jigglypuff's rest and Grinner hitboxes are a lot bigger than corpus'. Once you are done with that step I'd doubt you'd do another K-Drive slam kill afterwards unless DE increases the hitbox.

 

One area of improvement it to make it so that our chain doesn't get broken if we stand on solid ground since the only reason you can even get up 1K points with a K-drive is by grinding.

 

I'd say its on par with deadlock protocol in terms of difficultly but not overhaul level. It still teaches you the ins and outs of the K-Drive and then lets you go on and master it.

 

On 2023-01-19 at 2:07 AM, LtGerres said:

1) Remove the "achieve XY points in tricks" and change pretty much every single entry except for the race points on level 5 (according to the wiki that all also falls under the category of "you no good at tricks, piss off").

 

I was able to do the race points without doing tricks. Just with a modded K-Drive.

Combo points, the questline literally tells you what the combos you can use you don't have to just do the same one over and over again. Just grind and you'll get it done.

On 2023-01-19 at 2:07 AM, LtGerres said:

2) Remove the "copykavat" debuff so chains are easier to do by mindlessly - but at least successfully - repeating the same trick over and over without being arbitrarily hit with reduced points and sudden end of the streak.

 

Yeah, losing the combo chain because you touched solid ground is counterintuitive considering you can only stay in the air for so long.

On 2023-01-19 at 2:07 AM, LtGerres said:

Alternatively, if you really don't want to change anything, please give an "abort quest" button, the quest notifier on the top of my screen bothers me for over a year by now.

Fun fact it bugged out for me and soft locked me on the last step of going to an inbox to claim Yareli BP in which I already crated Yareli using said blueprint. That was fun having to explain that to support even though they said they can't do anything about it. I left up the notice for about 3 months until I made support not forcing me to spend plat to get Yareli into Helminth.

Edited by XHADgaming
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9 hours ago, Gofretko said:

Mastery rank points.

There. You can sleep in peace now. You finally understand the secrets of the universe.

And no I won't git gud on that particular skill that I care zero about. I'll have somebody else do the quest for me. Hopefully you will live knowing that such things happen.

Lol you're one of those players who's so used to having the game play itself that any kind of new challenge short circuits your brain.

You're exactly the problem with Warframe that prevents us from having any hard content that's not just a gear check.

P.S. you realize you need to rank up not one but five k-drives for full mastery right? They all give the same MR as a warframe since they're all vehicles. Not only that but you need max rank vent kids to get the kompressa. Better get learning.

Edited by thetdw2000
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It's not that much of a pain because the objectives are actually easy to cheese. The hardest might be doing a certain amount of point, but by grinding back and forth on the big ass pipe behind Fortuna and rolling my head on my keyboad while in the air it eventually went good. 

But I agree this quest is not really fun to play. It's basically doing 5 times almost the same S#&$ in a row.

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16 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

Lol you're one of those players who's so used to having the game play itself that any kind of new challenge short circuits your brain.

Yeah bro, I am also responsible for the starving children all over the world. You got me.

Unclench your arse now, you're embarrassing yourself.

The game is big, some parts of it players are bound to not like.

And yes I've levelled all K-Drives already... by doing ZERO tricks. Wonder how you'll live through that lol.

14 hours ago, Legeno said:

The hardest might be doing a certain amount of point, but by grinding back and forth on the big ass pipe behind Fortuna and rolling my head on my keyboad while in the air it eventually went good. 

Yeah that's where I stopped, couldn't do 1500 for 2 tries but I'll cheese it eventually.

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7 hours ago, Gofretko said:

Yeah bro, I am also responsible for the starving children all over the world. You got me.

Unclench your arse now, you're embarrassing yourself.

The game is big, some parts of it players are bound to not like.

And yes I've levelled all K-Drives already... by doing ZERO tricks. Wonder how you'll live through that lol.

I'm laughing at your inability to complete one of the easiest challenges in the game and insistence on begging DE to change it.

And WOW you're worse than I thought. So you actually went through the process of leveling up all the k-drives (and presumably the process of leveling up ventkids, since you're refusing to just buy yareli for plat for some reason) and never learned to do a single trick? That's just downright embarrassing.:crylaugh:

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11 hours ago, Gofretko said:

Yeah bro, I am also responsible for the starving children all over the world. You got me.

Unclench your arse now, you're embarrassing yourself.

The game is big, some parts of it players are bound to not like.

And yes I've levelled all K-Drives already... by doing ZERO tricks. Wonder how you'll live through that lol.

Yeah that's where I stopped, couldn't do 1500 for 2 tries but I'll cheese it eventually.

3 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

I'm laughing at your inability to complete one of the easiest challenges in the game and insistence on begging DE to change it.

And WOW you're worse than I thought. So you actually went through the process of leveling up all the k-drives (and presumably the process of leveling up ventkids, since you're refusing to just buy yareli for plat for some reason) and never learned to do a single trick? That's just downright embarrassing.:crylaugh:

this whole conversation is embarassing. can't you guys respect each other? both of you.

some people like k-drives, some people don't. 

all we want is a way to obtain a frame (real content) without being forced to do a long a boring quest focused on a SECONDARY mechanic. 

 

also all those tricks, all those races, all unnecessary. why? because in normal stages, where you'll use yareli, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO TRICKS. NOR THERE'S ANY BENEFIT FOR DOING THEM.

why did i have to do a whole 30min quest with lots of tricks and whatever for a frame that will never have to use it? 

the quest should also be shorter considering how average/bad yareli is.

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Il y a 9 heures, Kaichi16 a dit :

the quest should also be shorter considering how average/bad yareli is.

Shorter, I don't know, because the quest is actually not that long. You don't have craft to make, no ressources to farm, the biggest deal is to actually learn the K-drive controls just enough to cheese it. Just one session in the evening and you're done with it. There is other Warframe quests that actually took more time to do.

Insteed of being shorter, we should have more diverses objectives between each reveal of the comicbook pages.

Also, something that actually get you involved in the story, because so far you actually have ... litteraly no impact on what happens, you just do tricks in the Orb Vallis which magically unlock some comicbook pages, and that's all, you don't really solve any problem with Nef Anyo, Roky's coma (no, I don't admit that reading a comic book magically heals head injury, even in Warframe) or rejection that she and Boon are facing. The whole stuff is solved by itself.

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10 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

this whole conversation is embarassing. can't you guys respect each other? both of you.

lord-of-the-rings-no.gif 

10 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

some people like k-drives, some people don't. 

all we want is a way to obtain a frame (real content) without being forced to do a long a boring quest focused on a SECONDARY mechanic. 

Again, if you don't like k-drives why play a frame whose whole gimmick is that she has a k-drive? Yareli's survivability and her aquablades augment both require you to stay on merulina for the full effect, and the rest of her kit isn't special enough that anyone would want to play her for any reason other than merulina.

10 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

also all those tricks, all those races, all unnecessary. why? because in normal stages, where you'll use yareli, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO TRICKS. NOR THERE'S ANY BENEFIT FOR DOING THEM.

why did i have to do a whole 30min quest with lots of tricks and whatever for a frame that will never have to use it? 

This is simply incorrect. While there's no direct benefit to chaining tricks with merulina (yet) learning how to maneuver on a k-drive, grind, and perform tricks (which are how you double jump) can help you a ton in certain tilesets. Even if you do the standard strategy of simply grinding on Fortuna's pipe until you rack up the required trick score you still will learn how the grind mechanic works, how to use your double jump effectively, and how to turn on a dime. Also you absolutely CAN do tricks, you just have to have good spatial awareness and proper timing.

K-drive races, especially the ones that go through caves, are a great teaching tool for throttle control and general maneuverability. The main challenge with k-driving on normal tilesets is that you have a bunch of 90 degree turns and general tight spaces that are hard to take if you hold shift the whole time, but are easier to manage if you know how to control your boost.

The only area of the quest I would get rid of is the dumb "kill enemies with slam attacks" requirement, since k-drives are always going to be useless in combat until DE figures out how to make them scale. It's not hard, but it is annoying. But other than that it's probably the best "gimmick" quest of them all. Titania's requires you scan plants for hours on end, Protea's makes you learn the Granum Void, and Nidus's forces you to play index. At least Yareli's quest revolves around the main gimmick of the warframe.

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10 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

Again, if you don't like k-drives why play a frame whose whole gimmick is that she has a k-drive? Yareli's survivability and her aquablades augment both require you to stay on merulina for the full effect, and the rest of her kit isn't special enough that anyone would want to play her for any reason other than merulina.

mastery fodder. i'm pretty sure someone else already answered this.

y'know what a lot of ppl do with yareli? subsume her merulina into a good survival tool and just play her, as her other abilities are kinda usable.

10 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

This is simply incorrect. While there's no direct benefit to chaining tricks with merulina (yet) learning how to maneuver on a k-drive, grind, and perform tricks (which are how you double jump) can help you a ton in certain tilesets.

could you give me one example of this? the only tilesets open enough for this are open worlds (where you can use archwing so... nope.) and maybe mars or corpus (where literally just bullet jumping is faster[also we have volt's speed, gauss's mach rush, titania's razorwing, the list goes on). but i'm waiting your answer.

10 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

Even if you do the standard strategy of simply grinding on Fortuna's pipe until you rack up the required trick score you still will learn how the grind mechanic works, how to use your double jump effectively, and how to turn on a dime. Also you absolutely CAN do tricks, you just have to have good spatial awareness and proper timing.

21 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

because IN NORMAL STAGES, where you'll use yareli, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO TRICKS. NOR THERE'S ANY BENEFIT FOR DOING THEM.

 

10 hours ago, thetdw2000 said:

The only area of the quest I would get rid of is the dumb "kill enemies with slam attacks" requirement, since k-drives are always going to be useless in combat until DE figures out how to make them scale. It's not hard, but it is annoying. But other than that it's probably the best "gimmick" quest of them all. Titania's requires you scan plants for hours on end, Protea's makes you learn the Granum Void, and Nidus's forces you to play index. At least Yareli's quest revolves around the main gimmick of the warframe.

it's okay, you can like the quest. but it's bad. like seriously. it's not just me saying that, just google "waverider" quest and you'll see how many people despise this quest.

i understand you, i love hydroid. but we have to be adults and understand the flaws of things we love.

k-drives are SECONDARY mechanics. players just want the frame. they dont want to do such boring secondary mechanic thing. 

btw, again: i, me, myself had no problem with the quest. i've done it in less than 30min. but the quest is boring. 

 

y'know a easy fix for this? make merulina moddable. so we have ANY reason to do tricks. then yep, i'd agree with almost everything you said.

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1 hour ago, Kaichi16 said:

mastery fodder. i'm pretty sure someone else already answered this.

And again, you need to level up five k-drives, one of which is locked behind completing a race on deimos, as well as kompressa (which is locked behind ventkids) to get full MR. Either way you don't need Yareli to get LR 2. She's entirely optional.

1 hour ago, Kaichi16 said:

y'know what a lot of ppl do with yareli? subsume her merulina into a good survival tool and just play her, as her other abilities are kinda usable.

I don't care about the helminth system, it's a really dumb idea that should've never been implemented, but that's a whole different issue. Sure you can turn Yareli into a different frame by using helminth, but why? Why not just use any of the other 50+ frames that don't have k-drive inherent to their kit?

 

2 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

it's okay, you can like the quest. but it's bad. like seriously. it's not just me saying that, just google "waverider" quest and you'll see how many people despise this quest.

i understand you, i love hydroid. but we have to be adults and understand the flaws of things we love.

k-drives are SECONDARY mechanics. players just want the frame. they dont want to do such boring secondary mechanic thing. 

Except that's not the main complaint. The main complaint throughout most of these threads is that the difficulty is too high. Just look at the OP, he's complaining about the copykavat mechanic. The copykavat mechanic which is designed to stop you from mindlessly spamming spacebar while in the air to get a free 5x combo, and which anyone with 2 braincells would realize is bypassable by just rotating through flips, copters, grabs, grinds, anything really. These players don't want to learn how to do a very simple quest that takes half an hour at most, so they'd rather cry to DE about how it's too harrrrd.

And while k-drives may technically be a secondary mechanic, they're still a traversal tool. I personally used them for open worlds before I unlocked the archwing launcher, and I still use them sometimes to get from point A to point B. They definitely mix far more organically into Warframe than other mechanics (*cough cough* KAHL *cough cough*). Are they perfect? No, their mods could be made more accessible, their combat mods could scale better, and the open worlds could be designed better so that flying over everything with archwing isn't always the only solution. But I still find them fun, and you can get them way earlier than archwings, so they're still useful for new players.

3 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

btw, again: i, me, myself had no problem with the quest. i've done it in less than 30min. but the quest is boring. 

I will admit that the unskippable cutscenes and repetitive objectives do make the quest take longer than it really needs to, but again, that's not exactly OP's complaint now is it? Although I will say that "get 500 points in a trick chain" gradually increasing to "get 2000 points in a trick chain" is a good way to get the player to slowly get better at k-driving. I'd also cut the "do X trick 5 times" down to just 1, and alternate between "do a race" and "do a trick chain" objectives.

 

3 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

y'know a easy fix for this? make merulina moddable. so we have ANY reason to do tricks. then yep, i'd agree with almost everything you said.

I totally agree, or at least Yareli should get an augment that gives her a bonus for doing tricks. No argument there.

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1 hour ago, thetdw2000 said:

And again, you need to level up five k-drives, one of which is locked behind completing a race on deimos, as well as kompressa (which is locked behind ventkids) to get full MR. Either way you don't need Yareli to get LR 2. She's entirely optional.

yet she's a warframe. main content. something people want to play or at least try.

1 hour ago, thetdw2000 said:

I don't care about the helminth system, it's a really dumb idea that should've never been implemented, but that's a whole different issue. Sure you can turn Yareli into a different frame by using helminth, but why? Why not just use any of the other 50+ frames that don't have k-drive inherent to their kit?

i agree. yet, helminth's being great to fix bad warframe design. the thing is: why wouldnt someone subsume merulina? lots of other frames have better survivability tools that dont restrict you that much.

1 hour ago, thetdw2000 said:

Except that's not the main complaint. The main complaint throughout most of these threads is that the difficulty is too high. Just look at the OP, he's complaining about the copykavat mechanic. The copykavat mechanic which is designed to stop you from mindlessly spamming spacebar while in the air to get a free 5x combo, and which anyone with 2 braincells would realize is bypassable by just rotating through flips, copters, grabs, grinds, anything really. These players don't want to learn how to do a very simple quest that takes half an hour at most, so they'd rather cry to DE about how it's too harrrrd.

And while k-drives may technically be a secondary mechanic, they're still a traversal tool. I personally used them for open worlds before I unlocked the archwing launcher, and I still use them sometimes to get from point A to point B. They definitely mix far more organically into Warframe than other mechanics (*cough cough* KAHL *cough cough*). Are they perfect? No, their mods could be made more accessible, their combat mods could scale better, and the open worlds could be designed better so that flying over everything with archwing isn't always the only solution. But I still find them fun, and you can get them way earlier than archwings, so they're still useful for new players.

well, tricks may be easy for us, but some people have problems. there are complaints from disabled people about this quest too. while yes, the quest is easy for most people, it's a bad quest. 

if you wanna make a quest for kdrives, make one where we had to fight that whatever guy from the comics. like kdrive race against him into a boss fight. 

i respect your opinion of liking kdrives, but objectively archwings are better. yes, you get them earlier than archwings but is there any reason to do open worlds before that? 

i mean, you get to mars which's really fast and get your archwing. 

but hey, you still havent answered it: could you give me examples of normal tilesets where kdrive mechanics are something good? with the exception of open worlds.

all maps are full of doors and close spaces that make it really unpleasant to use kdrives. it's literally easier and faster to bullet jump.

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