Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×
  • 9

[Explained] Damage 2.0 Builds, With Cheatsheets!


_Aahz
 Share

Question

Okay, first and most important thing to realize:

  • Do NOT compare the new damage system to old damage system. It is completely different and you're just going to confuse yourself trying to somehow translate new mechanics into the old stuff.

Scott/Grineeer tried to explain it in the livestreams, and DERebecca tried to explain more in the forum, but the great majority of people who logged into U11 were completely confused. So start from scratch, forget the old damage/enemy/weapon system, and realize everything is going to be okay. Now onto some explanations... (btw, TL:DR, pics at the bottom to tell you how to build your weapons, if you don't care about the mechanics).

MblYCuA.png

Info in next spoiler is outdated according to 11.3.2/11.3.3 update. There is currently no rational explanation, or simple way of explaining, damage 2.0 according to Update 11.3.x. Check back later when they've settled on... idk... whatever they're trying to do.


Physical Damage
We have 3 physical damage types that (almost) all weapons have, in different amounts. Here they are:

  • Impact - Most effective on shields
  • Puncture - Most effective on armor
  • Slash - Most effective on health/flesh (non-robotic)

That seems simple enough, right? Well, those of you who have been enjoying Pokemon Snap in space, if you check the enemies in your Wardex (Codex), you may notice:

  • Corpus - Have health and shields, but NO armor
  • Grineer - Have health and armor, but NO shields
  • Infested - Have health, but NO armor OR shields

Using those 2 key pieces of knowledge about damage types and enemy types, you should now be able to look at your weapons properly. Let's take a few examples, starting with the loudest complaint: Soma
MjOpCd3.png
Using what you just learned about damage types, you SHOULD be able to see that this is probably never going to be a good weapon to use against high level Corpus. Why? Because Corpus rely on heavy shields which are weak to impact damage, of which Soma sadly has little to begin with. Soma is fairly even on puncture and slash however, with high crit. This means you should boost your puncture/slash damage, slap on some crit mods, and you'll be able to destroy Grineer and Infested. Soma is now most efficient and effective against Grineer and Infested, so stop taking it into missions against Corpus and expecting miracles.

R2ZFOkj.jpg
So now looking at the Boar, out of the 3 physical damages, it has high impact and medium slash damage. Judging from that alone, your most beneficial build will be as an anti-Corpus weapon, because Corpus shields are weak against impact damage, and Crewmen's health is weak to Slash. Also, the extra slash damage Boar has is nice, because when elemental damages are calculated, they're based on the percentage of your total physical damage (Impact + Puncture + Slash). So it may be worthwhile to boost Boar's slash damage as well.

3GjUIoW.png
Despair has a large chunk of base puncture damage, which is most effective on armor. The proper build here would be focusing on boosting puncture, slapping on a max No Return mod for +60% puncture damage. Why not use a max Razor Shot mod too, so I can boost Slash damage by 60%? Well, look at the math:

  • Base puncture damage * 60% is equal to 44 * 1.6 = 70.4 damage
  • Base slash damage * 60% is equal to 8.2 * 1.6 = 13.12 damage... kinda feels like you wasted power points by using this mod for an extra ~5 damage, huh?

Here's a quick cheat sheet for determining builds at a glance (Updated for 11.0.7):
5W8yb5u.png



Elemental Damage
There are 10 possible elemental types, but that doesn't mean you should use all of them at once. Just like with the physical damage types, some elemental types are more useful on certain weapons than others. Here's a quick overview of what they are and how they combine:
uqSxITt.png
Well, if you played with the old damage system, you know Corpus shields are weak against Cold, and they can be stunned by Electricity if they don't have shields up. Infested have resistance to electricity, but are particularly weak to Heat. Grineer are really tough, but Corrosive causes heavy damage to their thick armor, leaving the exposed flesh open to Heat, Viral, and Blast damage.

The number one rule with Damage 2.0 is:

  • Use the right tool for the job, and compliment your weapon's base stats.

Learn to think of your weapons as anti-Corpus, anti-Grineer, or anti-Infested. When you start viewing it like that, it becomes completely obvious that you need to use an elemental that Corpus are weak against on your anti-Corpus weapon. If you've got a high puncture weapon, you're going to want the Corrosive element as well, because that's what Grineer are weak against.  A heavy impact weapon? That's great for Corpus, so add on some Magnetic element. Slash weapons are particularly useful for... you guessed it, Infested! Simply add some Heat and Blast damage and go eradicate some Infested areas of the galaxy.

The primary elementals are fairly straightforward, but I also like to divide the combined elementals into 2 categories:
Utility

  • Blast - Stun/knockdown
  • Gas - Poison AoE
  • Radiation - Confusion and slowed fire rate/reduced accuracy

Direct

  • Magnetic - Shield reduction
  • Viral - Health reduction
  • Corrosive - Armor reduction/removal

Utility is most useful as a secondary effect, on top of a primary effect you've given your weapon. For example, Embolist already defaults to Toxin damage (a primary), and it's really nice to have Blast (secondary from fire and ice) on top of that to keep things locked down.

29uixir.jpg



Hopefully that explains most of what DE Scott intended, and it really is an elegant design for weapons and enemies, once the kinks are worked out and it's explained to players better in-game. Any more questions?

Updates:

  • DE_Steve has suggested Radiation against Grineer, and testing it out with Synapse shows little penetration through Armor, but to non-armored Grineer health it's fairly effective. (Although in-game codex states no weakness)
  • Added FAQ below based on questions in this thread.
  • Updated information further based on testing and feedback (Thanks to: Phoenix86, NegimaSonic, MeduSalem)
  • Updated according to U11.3.3, I guess.  Hugely controversial update to Damage 2.0, which... dunno... I can't think of any way to explain it in its current state, sorry guys.  Updated the cheat sheet at the top at least.

FAQ Follow-up Questions


Q: Is it true that there are no more armor-ignoring damage types in Damage 2.0?
A: Boost your weapon's Puncture to gain better damage against armored enemies.  You can also use the Corrosive element to reduce/remove armor, along with the Aura mod, Corrosive Projection.

Q: Do bullet type damage not work on Pure Elemental weapons (Ignis, Synpase, etc.) or was that a UI thing?
A: The unique elemental weapons (Ogris, Ignis, Synapse, etc.) use their elemental damage type as default, instead of physical damage. You can still increase this damage by using same element and generic damage mods like Serration. Example: Ogris is 300 Blast damage base, equipped with max Serration (+165%) gives it 300 * 2.65 = 795 Blast damage.

Q: Also how does status chance work? Does it allow for every damage type that the weapon has to hit special effects?
A: In patch 11.0.2, they added icons to damage numbers indicating when Statuses proc from your weapons. You'll notice the status chance is somewhat low for certain weapons, and higher for others. Unfortunately now, just because you're using Cold on your Kunai, it doesn't mean you'll be freezing enemies with every shot; the Frozen/Slowed status effect only has a small chance to proc, depending on the weapon's Status Chance. A further note, is that most of the time when a Physical status procs, it will be the status of type of damage that you have the most of on that weapon. So if you have high impact on a weapon, if a physical status procs, it will most likely be Impact's stun/knockback.

Q: What does armor/puncture damage amount do, exactly? Do enemies now have a set amount of armor (like shields and health) that you blast through before doing damage to health? Or does armor prevent X% of damage from reaching health, and when you deplete the armor you do 100% health damage?
A: Armor does not deplete like shields, but you can reduce/remove an enemy's armor using Corrosive status effects, the Corrosive Projection aura mod, and possibly other mods/abilities. Armor works like mitigation and prevents X % of damage from reaching health, so you'd probably want more puncture than the other two physical types.

Q: Is slash the only physical damage type that lowers health, essentially making the other physical damages useless on low level Infested?
A: No, all damage types are supposed to be able to damage health, but Slash is more effective at reducing non-robotic health fast. It's also cautioned that Impact and Puncture are up to 50% less effective against Infested, meaning you would be better using a weapon whose physical damage was mostly focused on Slash.

Q: So we're pretty much forced to go a one build kind of way with weapons?
A: Somewhat, but not really. For physical damage you're usually better off complimenting your weapon's base stats, but you can find a lot of versatility in the effects you put on it. Technically you could also fit up to 3 elemental effects on your weapon, utility and otherwise, but they may be competing for proc chance (we're not sure yet). It's really just up to your personal preference at the time, what you want to go for...

For example, Synapse is a beautifully versatile weapon. It defaults as electric damage, which can be:

  • Boosted purely as Electric, or
  • Combined with Cold to form Magnetic and drain Corpus shields fast, or
  • Combined with Heat to form Radiation to debilitate and confuse most enemies, or
  • Combined with Toxin to form Corrosive and melt Grineer armor, or
  • Combined with one of the above and Blast/Gas for even more crowd control possibilities...
Edited by _Aahz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Updated the OP and cheatsheets with corrected information. Looking at redesigning or adding a new infographic to have enemy weakness/strength more easier to see at a glance.

Responses to questions:

what happened to melee charge attacks and bows charge attacks?


do they work like they did before, or do they scale with the weapons base damage stats?

They work mostly like before it seems, charging the bow even slightly multiplies the base damage according to how long it's charged. Bows seem to do fairly well because of this. I'm unsure about changes to melee weapons however, as some of the damage seems kinda hit or miss (buggy).
First, well done on your explaination, but Please cite your source. Where are you getting this data from?

My own testing mostly, and I updated just now based on information from the Design Council someone posted publicly. Sadly I'm not on the design council myself, so I have to do all the hard testing on my own for information.
Great explanation of the new damage 2.0, My only question after this is how does the new positions of mods work for elemental procs, I heard that where your elemental dmg mod are place from top left to bottom right affect procs. Most of my dojo weapons top left slot are forma to a V slot for Damage (serration). For example my embolist has hornet strike in the top left slot, if I wanted to add the viral damage I would add cold but is it possible to have the embolist do a direct dmg like viral and a utility dmg like blast? or just blast and corrosive? and If so what would that look like on the mod loadout screen?

Currently not sure, hard to see the status procs and they don't last for very long (or enemy dies too fast). I've been doing tests on solo 30+ min survivals in order to better see and isolate stacking procs from a single weapon, but still needs more testing (or an official response please!). Might even stream some tests.
i guess (personally) i'm struggling to see why we would use physical damage mods at all. I mean, they provide less damage for the same mod point cost as elemental mods -- so why bother?

Well, (I think) the amount of elemental damage you gain is a percentage of the sum your weapon's physical/default damage type. So if you can boost your physical damage, it will increase your elemental damage as well. I could be misreading DE's intentions however, so... probably needs more testing and may be subject to change.
_Aahz deserves free plat. C'Mon, ppl, reward good deeds.

Would be nice lol, but I'm mostly just happy to help ease a lot of the confusion. Tired of seeing rank 7's and 8's come into my Corpus survivals relying just on Soma, lol.



JJigbeE.png
Also I'm an indie game dev/programmer, but I do have some experience with graphic design, so the infographics aren't all that much work. Just thought if DE wasn't going to supply something solid and easy-to-understand, SOMEONE needed to do it fast, before Update 11 got too much badmouthing. Grineeer/Scott did some great work and it was starting to feel like nobody was appreciating it properly.

Edited by _Aahz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Huh..? Now I'm little bit confused with the new infographic, as it was stated that Corpus don't have armor, only Health and Shields, but according to the sheet now some do have it, because of the sheet stating Puncture weapons are useful and that they are weak against Corrosive...

 

Which Corpus enemy types do have armor accoding to the sheet?

 

Edit: Actually I looked into my Codex, and as far as I have it, at every Corpus it states "Armor: 0", with the exception of one Corpus Boss i did so far, being Jackal who has ridiculously 100 Armor ^_^

Edited by MeduSalem
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Huh..? Now I'm little bit confused with the new infographic, as it was stated that Corpus don't have armor, only Health and Shields, but according to the sheet now some do have it, because of the sheet stating Puncture weapons are useful and that they are weak against Corrosive...

 

Which Corpus enemy types do have armor accoding to the sheet?

 

Edit: Actually I looked into my Codex, and as far as I have it, at every Corpus it states "Armor: 0", with the exception of one Corpus Boss i did so far, being Jackal who has ridiculously 100 Armor ^_^

Sorry, that's me trying to sneak around some of the weird ways they worded what damage is good against this and bad against that.

 

Apparently Robotic health is resistant to Slash damage, and weak against Puncture damage.  So once you've taken down the Corpus shield with impact damage, puncture damage will be most effective on Corpus health.

 

So the best Combined Elements against infested is Viral damage? It doesn't even have fire in it though.

Possibly... going by the numbers given to the Design Council:

  • Viral is +100% vs Flesh, and
  • Heat is +75% vs Flesh and +50% vs Infested

So it's somewhat unclear if Heat's effect is +125% vs Infested (because they are also Flesh), or +75%.  But an even better option might be trying to get both Viral and Heat on your weapon at the same time...

Edited by _Aahz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Sorry, that's me trying to sneak around some of the weird ways they worded what damage is good against this and bad against that.

 

Apparently Robotic health is resistant to Slash damage, and weak against Puncture damage.  So once you've taken down the Corpus shield with impact damage, puncture damage will be most effective on Corpus health.

 

That makes perfectly sense... As robotics don't have "health" in ways humans do, I guess... ^_^

 

So going up for Impact+Slash only is awful when dealing with hordes of MOAs and Ospreys... Should consider that in my loadout ... xD

 

And maybe that should be also included into the graph... Dividing Corpus into humans and robotics...!

Edited by MeduSalem
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I'm testing stuff...turns out I just accidentally deleted it all switching tabs.

Anywho from memory Blast + Corrosive is the best vs infested and Corpus. I didn't make it to Grineer.

 

I was using a Snipetron Vandal for testing up to that point but now I'm going to use a Braton. But before I go, I'd like to remind you that current infested have zero armor except for the leaper. So if you want to know what your real infested damage is, you can only shoot them.

 

EDIT: Here are the results. Short version. Blast + Corrosive appears to be global king.

 

Pluto (Infested) Palus (leaper only):

90% elements on all. 135% serration. No other mods. Though honestly this doesn't matter much.

Blast + Corrosive = 128

Radiation + Viral = 73

Gas + Magnetic = 87

Viral + Heat = 67 <--btw, I won't waste any time on testing dual with singular unless it is supposed to be a "really" sure better one because I believe in theory EVERY 2 dual combo yields more damage than a single dual combo + singular element.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ceres (Grineer) Ludi =   (minor note, heavy gunners don't seem to appear here ever, unless they've been removed from the game or something)

 

Blast + Corrosive =

171-187 (average units, bombard, commander included).  132-134  (trooper).    196-203 Scorpion.   234  Powerfist, Shield Lancer.

Radiation + Viral =

166-187 (average units, bombard, commander included) | 70-79 (trooper). |  220 Scorpion. | 286-288 Powerfist, Shield Lancer.

Gas + Magnetic = (I skipped powerfist. The pattern is obvious by now)

149-156 (average units, bombard, commander included). |  78 (trooper). | 177 Scorpion.     Powerfist, Shield Lancer.

Quick test

Corrosive + Heat

176 for Scorpion. 204 Shield lancer. Based on this assumed to never be better than Blast + Corrosive.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Pluto (Corpus) Archron =

Blast + Corrosive

223 Shield | 266 Health (224 for corpus tech)

Gas + Magnetic

287 Camera Shield | 223 Camera health (actually this seems to apply to all general units here so I'll move on)

Radiation + Viral

223 Shield | 223 Health (sometimes I swear it seems lower though)

-------------------------

Blast + Corrosive appears to win on Infested and Corpus

Blast + Corrosive ties with Radiation + Viral on regular grineer. R+V wins slightly due to light units, but loses much harsher to troopers. Personally I'd stick with Blast + Corrosive.

 

Now if you want to know what comes out on top amongst all of the single dual elements because this is very point heavy...you'll have to ask someone else haha...I don't want to do more :D

Nor do I claim any of this is right but that's what I see.

Edited by NegimaSonic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Damage works same as before. Always on. Always adding to your damage just for having it.

It's just "effects" are no longer guaranteed, they're chances to inflict status.

 

Using freeze as an example, instead of inflicting slow every shot, it has a CHANCE to inflict slow. But it still will always deal "freeze" damage. So if you don't care about effects or have to give up slots for other mods, it is extra damage, simple as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Just wanted to note a significant thing about Corrosive status effects.  Apparently they can remove Armor completely... tested with Corrosive Synapse on Saturn, Cassini, 30+ min survival.  After you get the armor off, Grineer are extremely squishy to Slash, Radiation, Heat, and Viral...

 

Also the Codex is lies and slander (or at the very least misleading), because the following Corpus have significant armor at higher levels (tested on Pluto, Narcissus, Wave 25+):

  • Shockwave Moa
  • Fusion Moa
  • Railgun Moa
  • Corpus Tech

 

Would suggest a change to the codex, that after >max scans are reached per enemy, a slider opens up underneath the enemy stats, ranging from 1-100 or so, and moving that slider shows how the enemy's Health/Shield/Armor increases with level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Is the shotgun damage listed in the codex a per pellet damage or is it per round?  If it's per round then how does multi-shot in shotguns work now?  The same as on pistols, rifles, etc? 

 

I second _Aahz's the call for more info in the codex, including charge damage, DPS calculations, etc.

 

 

Grineeer/Scott did some great work and it was starting to feel like nobody was appreciating it properly.

 

 

I was under the impression that it was a team effort, mostly Steve and Scott.

Edited by ThePresident777
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

That seems simple enough, right? Well, those of you who have been enjoying Pokemon Snap in space, if you check the enemies in your Wardex (Codex), you may notice:

  • Corpus - Have health and shields, but NO armor
  • Grineer - Have health and armor, but NO shields
  • Infested - Have health, but NO armor OR shields

 

 

Going to have to add to the argument the Codex lies. Infested Leaper's have armor. This makes things more complicated and lean toward needing slash/piercing or use of Corrosive at higher levels (survival) which is not mentioned on any of the the cheat sheets on this post.

 

Great work on explaining things as the Codex states and some DE members have commented on. 

 

Tossing armor onto mobs that the codex says has none is pretty misleading IMO.

Edited by inde
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Going to have to add to the argument the Codex lies. Infested Leaper's have armor. This makes things more complicated and lean toward needing slash/piercing or use of Corrosive at higher levels (survival) which is not mentioned on any of the the cheat sheets on this post.

 

Great work on explaining things as the Codex states and some DE members have commented on. 

 

Tossing armor onto mobs that the codex says has none is pretty misleading IMO.

 

Yea,, it was a great surprise for me when I've noticed the insane damage mitigation on lvl60+ alerts while gunning down other infested left and right.

Each leaper beacomes a miniboss LOL..  It's ragter funny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I'm sorry, but there seems to be some conflicting information out there.  Either you or the wiki is wrong

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0#Damage_Type_Multipliers

 

Granted I've seen both your cheat sheet AND the wiki get changed in the last day.  According to the wiki, Infested, Corpus and Grineer all have DIFFERENT base health types with different weaknesses and strengths.  The wiki calls them Flesh (grineer unarmored), Infested (all infested), Robot (Corpus without shields).

 

For example, your sheet says infested are VERY WEAK to Viral, when the wiki says that Viral is ONLY good against flesh.  Same with Toxin, Gas, Blast, and Radiation.  None of those have bonuses towards Infested, but rather Flesh, or Grineer.  (Apparently Radiation no longer has a bonus towards Grineer, even though a dev said it at one time and your old graphic had Grineer VERY WEAK to it).

 

This also affects physical damage types.  Slash is good against Flesh and Infested so good for Grineer and Infested.  Impact is good against shields and robotic, so perfect for Corpus.  Puncture is good against Armor and Robotic, so Grineer and Corpus.

 

Since yours got stickied, inferring some sort of reasonably official information, I want to ask what the hell is the correct answer here?  And on top of all of this, apparently DE threw a wrench into the wrench pit because now we are seeing armor coming back on Infested and Corpus on high levels.  All of this miss-information is making my head spin.

 

(OP, I mean no offense when I assumed the wiki is more correct than your post, I just chose a side for this post)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...