Valkyr Could Use A Health Recovering Skill.

[TunaMayo]

For a frame with such pitiful shields, Valkyr obviously relies heavily on her high armour and middling health to absorb damage. 

 

The only issue here is, you are either required to use certain mods (Equilibrium), polarize to have a certain aura (Rejuvenation) or play with a certain warframe (Nekros or Trinity) to recover health reliably.

 

This is a tad annoying and makes her feel very squishy even with max vitality and steel fibre on and personally I would prefer it if at least one of her skills had some method of recovering health reliably.

 

Option 1. % of Ripline damage is recovered as health.

Option 2. Casting Warcry causes health regeneration on top of armour buff.

Option 3. % of Paralysis damage is recovered as health. (Could work quite nicely, sacrificing shields for health effectively).

Option 4. Damage enemies during Hysteria recovers health.

Option 5. Replace Paralysis entirely with some sort of health recovery power.

 

Those are the options I can think of, do people agree with me or disagree?

 

On a side note:

 

Valkyr's effective health with no mods : 300 * (1 + 200/100) = 900

Valkyr's effective health with max Vitality and Steel Fibre : 740 * (1 + 420/100) = 3848

Saryn's effective health with no mods : 450 * (1 + 125/100) = 1012,5

Saryn's effective health with max Vitality and Steel Fibre : 1110 * (1 + 262.5/100) = 4023.75

 

Here you can see that the high armour is all for show without a high level of health as Saryn has more effective health than Valkyr, who is meant to be a melee-based warframe. Perhaps she could use a Health buff also?

Edited November 22, 2013 by TunaMayo

[Yg-Dosst]

Paralysis should mark people hit by it for life-steal akin to the old Well of Life, but only for the Zerker.

Perhaps a "Bleeding" effect could be applied to identify them.

And if the name does not fit anymore rename it to Bloodrage.

 

Doing this would basically make both Ripline and Hysteria heal her.

But only when pulling the Risk-Reward gamble of popping her own sheilds, and only on specific targets.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[Braken]

She really does need a survivability buff. She feels like the most fragile Frame in the game at the moment, and that REALLY goes against what her theme is.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Braken

[Otaiken]

Yes, and her aura polarity slot doesn't make any sense. She should have D imho, I realize that the V is there probably to equip Steel Charge, but D would make more sense on her, allowing her to equip Physique or Rejuvenation.

 

And you really need the extra mod points on double V frames.

[Yg-Dosst]

Yes, and her aura polarity slot doesn't make any sense. She should have D imho, I realize that the V is there probably to equip Steel Charge, but D would make more sense on her, allowing her to equip Physique or Rejuvenation.

 

And you really need the extra mod points on double V frames.

 

Rejuvenation would be absolutely wonderful on her.

Then again you're talking to the person who Forma'd a rhino to put Physique on him.

1600 health, 150 armor is no joke.

It's a shame DE reversed the way health is calculated though.

[Keltik0ne]

Rejuvenation would be absolutely wonderful on her.

Then again you're talking to the person who Forma'd a rhino to put Physique on him.

1600 health, 150 armor is no joke.

It's a shame DE reversed the way health is calculated though.

Eh ? When did they change the way health is calculated, my Rhino still has exactly what he's pretty much always had with max Vigor/Vitality.

 

As to health recovery, i'm relevelling Valkyr post formaing again, and I think the frame has way worse problems than health.

 

I'll need to test more though.

[Keltik0ne]

She really does need a survivability buff. She feels like the most fragile Frame in the game at the moment, and that REALLY goes against what her theme is.

It depends on her mods, with 1 from top equilibrium fitted, I can keep max energy/health pretty much constantly, although, running her ult constantly means you can junk the equil mod.

 

I think her biggest prob is a total lack of team use.

[TunaMayo]

It depends on her mods, with 1 from top equilibrium fitted, I can keep max energy/health pretty much constantly, although, running her ult constantly means you can junk the equil mod.

 

I think her biggest prob is a total lack of team use.

 

I did mention this. However I do not believe this is a valid statement of Valkyr's ability to survive in the same way that I don't believe Volt was fine pre-damage 2.0 just because of how Synapse interacted with Electric Shield.

 

A frame should have a mix of skills and stats that provide a solid playable foundation that you can build upon in different directions.

 

Not a wonky, buggy set of skills with meager stats that require specific mod loadouts to be played as intended.

[Nedwin]

+

[DarcnyssWolfe]

On the Armor, I personally believe it should be buffed to 300-400, cause the way its calculated is: 100/(armor+100)= % of damage taken, currently resualting in 81% damage reduction for Valkyr with maxed steel fiber. At 400 and maxed steel fiber that'd give her roughly 90% damage reduction or she'd only take 10% of any incoming damage (for reference Ember's overheat USED to reduce incoming up to 4% or 6%). Now 90% damage reduction seems extreme but given her low shields and the lack of any healing capability, the damage redux is all she has for survival (since hysteria will slowly kill you due to difficulty killing enemys and thus recieving a % of the damage you'd have taken).

 

Also to compare someone more common to Valkyr, Frost has 150 armor and a helm that boosts it by 25% (giving him a base 187.5). With maxed Steel Fiber he has 393.75 armor, this gives roughly a 80% damage redux with a massive shield pool to go through before the health pool (the health pool being the same as Valkyr's), compared to Valkyr's 81% redux and far less shields, but hey SHE'S the melee/tank frame.

[TwiceDead]

I like Option 3. 

But to be honest I would prefer Option 4 with a tweak.

Considering you're already invulnerable for a good 30 seconds or more if you use Hysteria, it would be ridiculous to give her life-leech at the same time. 

 

if it came with something akin to Nightmare Mode's Vampire HP drain, at the same time as it came with a life-steal, I could see this work nicely on top of her already invulnerable state. So in essence using Hysteria purely as a heal skill wouldn't do unless you had targets to punch to a pulp for the entire duration of the encounter. 

First they need to do something about that melee hit-detection though... Make it actually reliable. Increase the AoE to rival Orthos on Reach mods or something. 

[Otaiken]

You forget that enemies recieved dmg type with dmg 2.0 overhaul, so certain enemies, especially on high levels, will actually do armor piercing/bypassing damage. So armor is less useful than before, in light of that I would like to see Steel Fiber get a buff, especially since it's already pretty expensive to level.

 

Her 3rd ability is also very strange. It cuts half of your shields and then does damage based on the amount of shield cut this way. As you level the skill that damage gets multiplied up to 3.5x on max. So for this ability to be of any decent use you would have to boost your shields, but that won't give you much survivability and you won't be able to slot more armor/health in... and once you use this ability you cut your already weak shields in half. This ability makes no sense on her... either you build shields and you're complete squishy, but do decent damage with this skill. Or you build health/armor and this skill is utterly useless.

 

I think that skill should be changed to sap your health instead and then provide short life leech, or reworked completely. Maybe a skill that turns % of shield to health. That woul allow for some very interesting builds.

 

Maybe her 3 could give back health based on the damage you do to enemies. You sacrifice your shields and restore some of your health as long as there's enough enemies around you... could even make it sap ALL your shields.

Edited November 22, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[TwiceDead]

I think that skill should be changed to sap your health instead and then provide short life leech, or reworked completely. Maybe a skill that turns % of shield to health. That woul allow for some very interesting builds.

 

This is the notion I support. Draining your own life-pool, either gradually over time or instantly, in order to regain it through manly tears, sweat and blood...

 

Specifically the opponents blood. 

Edited November 22, 2013 by TwiceDead

[Otaiken]

This is the notion I support. Draining your own life-pool, either gradually over time or instantly, in order to regain it through manly tears, sweat and blood...

 

Specifically the opponents blood. 

 

Keep the scream though, that is absolutely vital part of that skill.

[TunaMayo]

I totally agree that the ultimate still needs a little work. You can actually do more damage just using orthos prime and warcry that her ultimate. it definitely needs some AoE on the furax like fists.

I guess steel fibre could use a buff also, bearing in mind that it caps at 110%, yet vitality and redirection at 440%. Yet due to how damage mitigation is calculated, steel fibre gives diminishing returns the higher you go, wh whereas the other two scale linearly, making them the better choice.

Loco does make a good point though, srmour is still iffy for us to use reliably giving the variety of enemy damage. Also I totally agree that paralysis is messed up, the way it functions given her stats makes no sense unless it gives her some sort of health regain.

The way I see it, the least exploitable manner would be to have a % of damage done by paralysis be converted into health for valkyr. Given that it is a feeely spammable power, but the damage relies on you having some sort of shields, this means you couldnt repeatedly use it for invincibility, just to regain health in a tight spot.

[yiN_]

The ult made me dyslexic, just too much color and flash :/

[MDG3ist]

+1 to this, a berserker-based frame should offer an exciting risk/reward style of gameplay, where you're continually putting yourself in harm's way and managing your health pool to power your abilities.  Gaining life back whenever you kill someone in hysteria mode would allow you to run Rage in one of the existing V polarity slots, rip line into a bunch of enemies, take enough damage to pop your ult, and then at least partially heal whilst you're punching face.  As Vitality and Steel Fiber are practically required parts of any build, the frame doesn't inherently allow you to play her in loads of different ways (although it's great fun to equip Stretch, Overextended, Fleeting Expertise, Streamline and Flow for the ultimate Spidey frame, but not hugely viable for gameplay), so at least let her be good at what she's intended for!

[SirFluffKillington]

+1 to this, a berserker-based frame should offer an exciting risk/reward style of gameplay, where you're continually putting yourself in harm's way and managing your health pool to power your abilities. [Edited]

 

 

Very much in agreement. I'm not sure which option in the OP I'd pick.

 

I've currently had more joy running in like a nutter with provoked and undying will equipped than actually trying to play her seriously. She just tends to go squish in a big puddle of disappointment.

[c0ldh4nds]

That ulti,can't see enemies from the amount of effects it makes.Especially when u need to target every one of them with the reticule.

Edited November 22, 2013 by c0ldh4nds

[yiN_]

That ulti,can't see enemies from the amount of effects it makes.Especially when u need to target every one of them with the reticule.

 

Yeah there is just WAYYY to much effects on this ult, it's just irritating in the end.

[Otaiken]

Yes, she needs health recovery.. badly. Imho I think that Hysteria should get big dmg and speed buff (both attack speed and movement speed) as well as CC immunity. To balance that make Hysteria drain health and provide life leech, meaning you need to keep slaughtering to come out even or even heal yourself some. It also fits the Berserker theme perfectly.

 

And make her 3 into something else entirely. This one is the number 1 candidate for rework into some health regaining skill.

Edited November 22, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[KornyWayz]

Option 5 is the only way to go. 

As it stands Paralyze is useless, she should just have a sort of BloodRage install like the Vorcha is Mass Effect 3 multiplayer. Make it a life steal thing, make it so while it's active you lose your shield, hell, make it so you have to do squats to regen health. Anything. 

 

It can't be something on her ult. It costs too much energy and you can't have it as melee only, she's a berserker but you aren't always going to be that close. 

Edit: With continuity/streamline it wouldn't be too hard to keep your energy up, but it would be boring to have to be in Hysteria all the time. And even if they went that way, they would still need to buff Hysteria. 

Edited November 23, 2013 by KornyWayz

[GTG3000]

"Told you". To be a healthtank, you need some way to replenish health, and without Trin it's next to impossible to do in a tight spot.

Personally I think it would be better to rework her ulti.

Ontop of much needed animation rework (not only effects, but also overall fighting style. Say no to slow-mo ballet), the ulti could be changed to work how it was supposed to work - you still take damage normally, but can't be downed while it's up, while dealing damage would give you % returns in health, about 10-20% max. Healing upon kill sounds nice, but that would make her less viable the higher enemy level goes.

Also, slow drain on health would make her very annoying to play, either because they'd rework animations/melee reach/charge attack/slide attack and you could kill whole room before it runs out, or because they'd keep it like it is, and you'll spend half the time watching her claw thin air while the health drains. Not to mention how you'd just waste health if someone came along and nuked the room.

[LukeAura]

She needs more options. All her abilities are cool, but they basically all amount to aggressive Hysteria+Warcry spam with a little Paralysis and Hooking for utility. 
BloodRage(Or maybe Blood lust) as a third skill and Hysteria should be like a schizophrenic pair of ults, using one while the other is active will switch her over, recasting one while in it will prematurely end it. Each one has its own benefits and draw backs.
Basically we take this tortured psyche of a frame and make its volatile a nature a part of her abilities. Having three states, Contained(Normal), Bloodlust(Aggressive Health tank), or Hysteric(Reckless berserker), each using the Hookshot and Warcry abilities as support for their twist on her playstyle. 

Normal state should be her regular mode, maybe even buffing her to 75/100 base shields for this. Decent at gunplay now with the extra shielding, can make use of Warcry and her hook to play like a mobile hit and run fighter. Aggressive, but not altogether really sturdy. Warcry may need to deal a bit of AoE damage to make this a viable mode. 

Blood lust should be the kill to live, fight to survive mode. Sapped shields down to half or less(Maybe another drawback as well) but a buff to her armour and damaging enemies returns a portion of her health relevant to the damage she deals. Hookshot into a group of enemies or to take out the foe that is damaging her faster than she can heal, Warcry to further buff her armour and minimize enemy movement and damage. Moves a lot less often than her other two modes in order to squeeze the last drops of juice from a single target in order to get the most life back before moving on to tank the next incoming wave.   

Hysteria is how we know it now more or less. Kill fore the sake of the cruel enjoyment, kill to revel in bloodshed. Speed boost, melee damage boost. Wide aggressive moves hitting multiple foes. Warcry to speed up her killing potential. At the end she takes a portion of the damage she received from it, as well as applying it to her foes, can bring her down to 1 Health but not die from it. She is constantly moving from group to group in this mode, never hiding like in her normal state, or using that last punching bag to gain health back before moving on to the next target like in blood lust. Her priority should always be the heaviest mob of enemies in the area.  

Open to discussion of course. 
 

[TunaMayo]

"Told you". To be a healthtank, you need some way to replenish health, and without Trin it's next to impossible to do in a tight spot.Personally I think it would be better to rework her ulti.Ontop of much needed animation rework (not only effects, but also overall fighting style. Say no to slow-mo ballet), the ulti could be changed to work how it was supposed to work - you still take damage normally, but can't be downed while it's up, while dealing damage would give you % returns in health, about 10-20% max. Healing upon kill sounds nice, but that would make her less viable the higher enemy level goes.Also, slow drain on health would make her very annoying to play, either because they'd rework animations/melee reach/charge attack/slide attack and you could kill whole room before it runs out, or because they'd keep it like it is, and you'll spend half the time watching her claw thin air while the health drains. Not to mention how you'd just waste health if someone came along and nuked the room.

I agree, I always thought she would come with a health regen power of somesort, needless to say I was disappointed

Her ulti has it's own issues, low damage compared to some weapons, ckunky furax style floaty punchiness and very short range (and potential suicide should one enemy escape). Also I feel of health regeneration was based arouns the ultimate, valk would be even more reliant on hysteria than she already is.

Personally, I would be ok with a bllod lust type skill in replacement of paralysis :

Shields are removed, aggro is drawn, movement speed is buffed and health is regenerated based on a % of damage dealt.

This would synergise nicely and make the most of hysteria, allowing for a good supply of health regeneration with weapons despite living on the edge with no shields. Or allowing for fullheal with hysteria.