Do Specters benefit from Incarnon Evolutions?

[SolarDwagon]

Specters do not benefit from mods as far as I know, but do they benefit from the Evolution options on Incarnon family weapons?

[(PSN)Sentiel]

They do not, it at least it seems that way.

I've tested this with by giving my Specter Phenmor with Retribution's Vessel Evolution that adds 50% magazine size (30 -> 45) and let it shoot enemies in Simulacrum. I've counted the shots and I'm certain it never went above 30.

I know it's not the best method but I was testing something else at the time and this was just an afterthought.

[SneakyErvin]

Looking at the dagger they do, since a specter with the +20% movement evolution indeed moves faster than without it. It is very likely the straight up passive evolutions work, but things like more ammo wont due to the specter A.I. We know ammo is wonky on them and they ignore reload fully on some weapons etc. So it is possible the A.I doesnt properly register an increased ammo pool.

I think the easiest would be to check on the shotgun with the perk that increases fire rate based on reload. That is if the specter is smart enough to do a full reload before firing again.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

2 minutes ago, LittleLeonie said:

The 2000% damage buffs seem to work since they definitely do damage on SP with an unmodded felarx

I'll have to test this! Thanks for the inspiration!

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

 

I've tested this with by giving my Specter Phenmor with Retribution's Vessel Evolution that adds 50% magazine size (30 -> 45) and let it shoot enemies in Simulacrum. I've counted the shots and I'm certain it never went above 30.

I know it's not the best method but I was testing something else at the time and this was just an afterthought.

That seems like a pretty good test to me, although it doesn't rule out some other evolutions working for whatever reason.

One question: was the specter using the whole magazine before reloading?  I don't know about true specters, but Celestial Twin does tactical reloads, lol.  With Phenmor he usually does 6 or 7 shots before reloading.

3 hours ago, LittleLeonie said:

The 2000% damage buffs seem to work since they definitely do damage on SP with an unmodded felarx

A lot more so than with a non-Incarnon weapon of similar or higher damage?  I'd just want to rule out their level scaling, and I don't pay enough attention to specter damage output to know whether one having impact in SP is unusual or not.

 * * *

_{It's only vaguely related, but I'll mention here that the Twin either gets Phenmor   Devouring Attrition or there's something very weird going on.  Its damage output is astronomically better with Phenmor than with similar slashy dps weapons.  But not as quite as much so if I mod for crit.}

_{Unlike conventional Tenno specters, Twin benefits from mods, so I'd have assumed it would benefit from Evolutions.  But I've assumed plenty of things about this game before and been wrong.}

[(PSN)Sentiel]

16 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

That seems like a pretty good test to me, although it doesn't rule out some other evolutions working for whatever reason.

One question: was the specter using the whole magazine before reloading?  I don't know about true specters, but Celestial Twin does tactical reloads, lol.  With Phenmor he usually does 6 or 7 shots before reloading.

The Spectre does both. I've no idea what makes it decide. So, yes, sometimes it 'tactically' reloaded but sometimes it went through the whole clip.

I do have the Devouring Attrition on and haven't noticed any spike in DPS. The damage was rather pathetic. Specters are still good for status priming, so Kuva Nukor, Proboscis Cernos, and Basmu work well with them.

 

[Tiltskillet]

23 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

The Spectre does both. I've no idea what makes it decide. So, yes, sometimes it 'tactically' reloaded but sometimes it went through the whole clip.

I do have the Devouring Attrition on and haven't noticed any spike in DPS. The damage was rather pathetic. Specters are still good for status priming, so Kuva Nukor, Proboscis Cernos, and Basmu work well with them.

 

Twin -always- reloads early.  It's pretty funny.

And yeah, Probo Cernos was my favorite specter primary for a long time, but I started using Basmu and Shedu after the specter ammo change.  I guess if I ever want DPS out of a specter I might look at Laetum though.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

1 minute ago, Tiltskillet said:

Twin -always- reloads early.  It's pretty funny.

And yeah, Probo Cernos was my favorite specter primary for a long time, but I started using Basmu and Shedu after the specter ammo change.  I guess if I ever want DPS out of a specter I might look at Laetum though.

I gave all Incarnon guns one by one to my On Call and went to Simulacrum. Not once did they trigger Devouring Attrition. I'm assuming Celestial Twin and Umbra will have the same behaviour.

Back to Basmu. 😎

[Tiltskillet]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

I gave all Incarnon guns one by one to my On Call and went to Simulacrum. Not once did they trigger Devouring Attrition. I'm assuming Celestial Twin and Umbra will have the same behaviour.

Back to Basmu. 😎

What do you mean by "trigger"? You didn't see unusual damage compared to another weapon?

I think the assumption about Twin is wrong though.  Devouring Attrition seems like the simplest explanation for it killing the same level enemy in about 4 seconds using a Phenmor rather than over a minute using P. Grinlok or Nagantaka Primes, all unmodded.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

16 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

What do you mean by "trigger"? You didn't see unusual damage compared to another weapon?

I think the assumption about Twin is wrong though.  Devouring Attrition seems like the simplest explanation for it killing the same level enemy in about 4 seconds using a Phenmor rather than over a minute using P. Grinlok or Nagantaka Primes, all unmodded.

Let me elaborate then.

I gave my On Call fully modded Phenmor, Ferlax, and Laetum and not once have I noticed any major spikes in the damage the enemies received. I assume when Devouring Attrition triggers, enemy HP bar will take a noticeable plunge if the enemy even survives.

It was in Simulacrum against lvl180 Exo Gokstad Officers. The damage was generally underwhelming (Ferlax was especially disappointing) and it took around 6-10 seconds to get a single kill. This difference was affected by Slash/Heat procs.

Curiously, the weapons perform MUCH better when I use them.

To compare, I normally use Basmu on my On Call and they clear all 20 lvl180 Exo Gokstad Officers in a few seconds.

Edited March 26, 2023 by (PSN)Sentiel
Typo

[Tiltskillet]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

To compare, I normally use Basmu on my On Call and they clear all 20 lvl180 Exo Gokstad Officers in a few seconds.

Unmodded?   Oops, didn't notice you specified modded for the Incarnon weapons.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[(PSN)Sentiel]

23 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Unmodded?   Oops, didn't notice you specified modded for the Incarnon weapons.

Basmu is modded as well of course. Viral damage, maximum fire rate, crit and Hunter Munitions.

On Call never stops shooting with it so it spreads Viral, Heat, Electric, and Slash everywhere and annihilates anything within seconds, even Acolytes.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Basmu is modded as well of course. Viral damage, maximum fire rate, crit and Hunter Munitions.

On Call never stops shooting with it so it spreads Viral, Heat, Electric, and Slash everywhere and annihilates anything within seconds, even Acolytes.

It's interesting that your results are so much different with Crew than mine are with Twin, since they should all function the same basic way. I'll play around with Laetum and Felarx on Twin (and maybe Duality and Umbra) and see what happens, although not today.  (Unfortunately I don't have Crew to compare.)

edit: ok, I did a quick Twin test comparing Laetum and Akvasto Prime because they're pretty similar, both modded for radiation to reduce slash proc variance.  Again, Laetum is a lot better on Twin.  Average for 3 samples was about 13 seconds with Laetum.  I only did one Akvasto test for now, but that was 85 seconds.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[Tiltskillet]

I did a  test comparing a Devouring Attrition and Lingering Judgement Phenmor.  Both did about the same, which shouldn't happen if the evolutions were active since Specters don't aim for heads. 

It could be there is something odd about how evolutions on NPC incarnon weapons are set though.  I've got a couple of ideas percolating for a different test.

[krimit]

from my testing the best i have come up with for a specter so far is nidus for healing/pwr str, with a kuva zarr for lots of aoe dmg, staticor for radiation with fast fire rate good status and aoe, and a sancti magistar for passive aoe healing and passive 20% status negation.  i find running nourish is devastating as it gives all allies (teammates,kavats,specters,eximus specters, nekros shadows,etc) viral damage which stacks to give an extra 325% dmg to hp so um....yeah....

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

On 2023-03-26 at 12:51 PM, (PSN)Sentiel said:

have the Devouring Attrition on and haven't noticed any spike in DPS. The damage was rather pathetic. Specters are still good for status priming, so Kuva Nukor, Proboscis Cernos, and Basmu work well with them

I've equipped my 5 forma Felarx and had every spectre using this for months and it's not exactly memorable. In terms of status and nukor, I wish we could have only one gun instead of both. But WF doesn't let you do that, spectres have to be fully equipped for some reason.