CC effects that work[ed] through Overguard [before Dante Unbound, mostly]

[SpiritTeA]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Ah, that was pretty painless.  I only had to do a little more formatting.  TYVM! 

@SpiritTeA , @Uan91 How does that look now?

That looks good, thank you very much. I appreciate your effort!

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 11 heures, taiiat a dit :

technically the uh, whatever the Laser thing was called is supposed to Stun the Enemy(ies) it hits.

I think you are talking about Vaporize precept (which makes the laser thing 😆). It can indeed stun Eximus with active OG. I'll change the text.

Thank you very much 👍

Edited March 29, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi
Correction after testing

[AegidiusF]

Le 29/03/2023 à 02:53, Tiltskillet a dit :

Titania: Lantern can draw aggro, but seems worse at distracting OGs than regular enemies.

I've forgotten one very important thing about Titania : the Razorflies drones from Razorwings (4th ability) offer a really nice aggro for OG enemies and they can also stun them for a shot period of time. As you can get up to 10 Razorflies, they can offer a nice CC if the number of Eximus is not too big.

[CoffeeElemental]

В 29.03.2023 в 03:53, Tiltskillet сказал:

Grendel: None

Grendel's Regurgitate slows down Eximus units through overguard and also strips their armor.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2023-03-28 at 8:53 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Warframe Abilities

Ash through Gyre:

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Ash:  Bladestorm isn’t what I’d call a CC ability normally, but OGs can be stunlocked with it.

Atlas: None

Banshee: Silence prevents eximus from using their -active- special abilities, OG or not.

• Silence does not disable the personal AoE resistance of Guardians, which was a feature that was documented in the Eximus Reborn patch notes but not implemented. Not that she especially needs it, lol. 
• Unalerted OGs under the effect of Silence usually won’t be alerted by damage until Oveguard is broken.  (Occasionally this happens even without Silence.)

Baruuk: None

Caliban: Lethal Progeny seem to have better aggro draw than the average minion.

Chroma: Spectral Scream, Elemental Ward, and Effigy set to cold can inflict cold procs.

Citrine:  Prismatic Gem will inflict cold procs.

Equinox: None. 

• OGs can't be targeted with Rage, and none of its effects can be spread to them.  This includes the damage vulnerability, which is not itself a CC.
• Pacify's damage reduction debuff doesn't affect OGs.

Excalibur: The blind on Exalted Blade spin attacks.

Excal Umbra: Same.

Frost:  Freeze, Ice Wave, and Avalanche will apply the maximum 4 cold procs that are allowed on OGs.  Additionally, the separate slow on Snow Globe and the Ice Wave augment work.

Gara:  Blind on Passive.  Forced Taunt on Spectrorage

Garuda: None.  

• Dread Mirror and Blood Altar can’t even target OGs.  So no jumps work and no shield refresh either.

Gauss: Thermal Sunder inflicts cold status.

Grendel: None

Gyre: None

Harrow through Nyx:

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Harrow: None

• OGs will not restore shields through Condemn

Hildryn: None

Hydroid: The tentacle function on Undertow can move OGs. Nerf him.

Inaros: None.  (Sand Shadows are adequate at drawing aggo.)

Ivara: None

• Prowl is not able to loot OGs, which is one of the weirder things in this list since Prowl has no CC components at all.  Also Noise Arrow doesn’t affect them.  Which is perhaps justifiable, but still annoying considering how bad Noise Arrow is as even quasi CC.

Khora: Venari in attack mode can force an OG to do a “Oh god, bees!” animation periodically.  Regular enemies caught by Strangledome can be very good at distracting OGs.

Lavos: Vile Rush inflicts cold procs, and imbues cold procs into his other abilities. Strangely, it can also move OGs a bit, though this is minor.  

Limbo: Passive works if you consider it CC.  Banish works. Stasis won’t freeze OGs themselves, but will timestop their projectiles if they’re riftbound. 

Loki: Switch Tele works.  Decoy is quite good at drawing OG aggro if you can keep it alive.   Radial Disarm won’t disarm, and the Irradiating augment won’t confuse OGs directly, but if there are any non-OGs around they can get the OGs attention.  Perhaps better than simple radiation procs would.

Mag: Ah, Mag.  Magnetize can be cast on OGs and becomes a mobile effect if they move around.  It can be used for indirect CC on OGs by sandwiching them with fodder.  And OGs in its radius will have most projectile attacks reflected back at them.    The augment will Disarm OGs.  Polarize’s augment jams OG weapons, which ends up working more like a Stun than a Disarm on ranged OGs, as they stand in place and won’t cast special abilities for the duration.  Crush’s augment immobilizes OGs, though they can still turn, shoot and cast.

Mesa:  Shooting Gallery augment’s Blind, though can be a little finicky.

Mirage: Sleight of Hand’s Blind, but again, seems not completely reliable.

Nekros:  Minions created by Soul Punch and SOD are decent for drawing aggro.

Nidus: None.

Nova: None.

• Naturally Molecular Prime won’t slow OGs..  It also won’t speed them up.   Technically CC, but is it actually?  See also: Equinox Rage

Nyx: Chaos indirectly works against OGs as long as there are plenty of non-OGs to be directly affected..  MC is a decent aggro draw.

• The Psychic Bolts augment doesn’t work on OGs. But just noting that it stuns normal enemies rather than the confusion effect  in the description.  I think it’s better this way.

Oberon through Zephyr, plus Helminth:

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Oberon: Reckoning’s blind works on OGs.  Hallowed Ground and Reckoning can inflict radiation procs on normal targets, distracting OGs.

Octavia:  Mallet and Resonator with Mallet active are very good at drawing OG attention.

Protea: None.

Revenant : Thralls are decent aggro distractors.

Rhino: Rhino Stomp slows OGs..  It’s a 97.5% slow, so near paralysis, and will short circuit some eximus abilities.

Saryn: Molt is solid at drawing aggro.

Sevagoth: None.

Styanax: None.

• If it hits an OG Axios Javelin will do damage but won't create a vortex.

Titania: Lantern can draw aggro, but seems worse at distracting OGs than regular enemies.

Trinity: None.

Valkyr: None.

Vauban:  Bastille and Vortex variant inflicts slow on OGs.  These can be combined  for what I’d estimate is around a 50% slow.   Beyond that, multiple casts from one Vauban won’t stack, but will with cold procs.  

Volt: Discharge’s stun will stick OGs in place.  They can still fire weapons and cast abilities.  And a few enemy abilities allow movement, for example Chargers.

Voruna: Fangs of Raksh can inflict random cold procs, and radiation procs on normal enemies can draw OG attention.  Ulfrun’s Descent lunges knocks down OGs.

Wisp: Will-O-Wisp seems to have extremely high aggro and is very good at attracting OG attention.  Breach Surge blinds OGs.

• But what never stops being funny about Breach Surge is it won't spark off of OGs. So the CC works and the non-CC doesn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wukong: The Twin functions as an ok distraction.

Xaku: Xata’s Whisper can inflict void status and reflect or interfere with OG weapon fire.  Accuse’s corrupted fodder can be decent distractions.

Yareli: None.

Zephyr: Tornado inflicts a moderate slow on OGs.   

Helminth:  Marked For Death inflicts a brief stun.  

 

Wukong twin can CC eximus with the celestial stomp augment because it's the same tech as Rhino's stomp. Same with exodia epidemic.

[Tiltskillet]

7 hours ago, CoffeeElemental said:

Grendel's Regurgitate slows down Eximus units through overguard and also strips their armor.

Oh, nice, thanks.  I didn't even realize Regurgitate had a slow. :/

It looks like the strength and duration of the slow aren't moddable.  Is this correct?

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Wukong twin can CC eximus with the celestial stomp augment because it's the same tech as Rhino's stomp. Same with exodia epidemic.

Adding, thank you.

[Tiltskillet]

9 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I've forgotten one very important thing about Titania : the Razorflies drones from Razorwings (4th ability) offer a really nice aggro for OG enemies and they can also stun them for a shot period of time. As you can get up to 10 Razorflies, they can offer a nice CC if the number of Eximus is not too big.

Good catch!  The stun you're talking about looks like an attempt to get mosquitos away, right?

[CoffeeElemental]

33 минуты назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

It looks like the strength and duration of the slow aren't moddable.  Is this correct?

Yep, only armor reduction and impact radius scale with stats. Slow is always 80% for 6 secs.

 

40 минут назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

I didn't even realize Regurgitate had a slow. :/

Well, before the rework it didn't have it.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, Tiltskillet a dit :

Good catch!  The stun you're talking about looks like an attempt to get mosquitos away, right?

Yes, it's exactly this.

Edited March 30, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[Tiltskillet]

- Added a note about Nekros Soul Punch, thanks to @(PSN)rexis12 and this thread.

[Tiltskillet]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:27 AM, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Dethcube : Vaporize secondary effect - works on Eximus : it can stun OG on hit. 

 

Hey, Aegis, in today's update, under bugfixes:

Fixed Dethcube’s Vaporize Mod not respecting Overguard’s crowd control immunity and bypassing their defenses to deal damage. 

I skimmed through the patch notes and did a word search for "overguard" and found no other changes

[AegidiusF]

il y a 10 minutes, Tiltskillet a dit :

Hey, Aegis, in today's update, under bugfixes:

Fixed Dethcube’s Vaporize Mod not respecting Overguard’s crowd control immunity and bypassing their defenses to deal damage. 

I skimmed through the patch notes and did a word search for "overguard" and found no other changes

Well, perhaps they are reading this thread. Sadly for the Dethcube 😂

[Tiltskillet]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Well, perhaps they are reading this thread. Sadly for the Dethcube 😂

The fact they mentioned damage seems like a small insight.  The implication being, maybe, some CC effects have to be manually decoupled from some damage effects.

I'll test Vaporize today and see if it's still doing damage to OGs.

[taiiat]

that Wording sounds like a bruh moment

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2023-04-26 at 10:16 AM, Tiltskillet said:

Hey, Aegis, in today's update, under bugfixes:

Fixed Dethcube’s Vaporize Mod not respecting Overguard’s crowd control immunity and bypassing their defenses to deal damage. 

I skimmed through the patch notes and did a word search for "overguard" and found no other changes

And yet it seems like some new enemies with Overguard react differently to at least one ability, Garuda’s 1. I can use it on overguarded Dax enemies, new with the update. I still cannot target old overguard enemies with it, like one of those corrupted butcher arctic eximus units, until I strip their overguard. 

[Tiltskillet]

Added a couple more "Non-CCs that seem like they should work through Overguard  but don't."

• Sevagoth Consume won't damage OGs, which also means he can't revive himself using them as targets.  Thanks to @(XBOX)Upl0rdYT.
• Volt's Discharge damages Overguard, but the Capacitance augment's shield restore disregards this damage.

I'm thinking maybe a separate thread for issues like these would be nice.  I suspect there are more, but testing everything individually sounds more tedious than testing the CC's was.  There's also the issue of some OGs being treated differently than others that @sunderthefirmamentnoticed...which starts to make my head hurt.

So a thread just for these would show  what's been tested better, and might encourage more people to share their knowledge.  Whereas some people I'm sure are reluctant to become involved in this one due to anxiety about nerfs.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[Tiltskillet]

Added

• Primary Obstruct:  Jams ranged weapons through Overguard.  Also CCs at least some melee units, OG or not, that Counter Pulse doesn't.
• Parazon Out of Sight:  does not blind OGs.  Which ruins my observation that every Blind in the game works through Overguard.  DE: consistently inconsistent.

[Tiltskillet]

Added:

Kullervo:  None.

• Collective Curse does have an odd, restrictive mechanic with different hp layers, including Overguard.  For example:  mixed group of Heavy Gunners all chained by Curse, two OGs  and the others standard.  Hit one of the OGs with a single target attack that doesn't break through Overguard.  The second OG will have its Overguard layer reduced through Curse, but the standard enemies won't take any damage to their health.

And all this time I somehow forgot to include my second most used frame, lol:

Nezha: None.  (I'll note that Divine Spears applies its damage instances to OGs without CCing them.  Just a case of a CC ability with a damage component that -seems- like it might depend on the CC taking effect but does not. )

• Blazing Chakram's damage vulnerability does not apply to Overguard, only to health and shields.  This was not the case early on after the introduction of OGs, but I don't know when it changed.

 

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

• Blazing Chakram's damage vulnerability does not apply to Overguard, only to health and shields.  This was not the case early on after the introduction of OGs, but I don't know when it changed.

that is hella wack.

[Tiltskillet]

I have some updates for Dagath, Qorvex, and Nautilus Cordon...

Dagath:  None.

Qorvex:  Chyrinka Pillar does apply its slow to OGs, in addition to being a decent distraction through its radiation proc utility as long as normal units are around.

• As expected, Containment Wall's grouping effect doesn't work on OGs--however its  damage vulnerability is not applied to them either.  Juggernaut is also unaffected, which may mean that all targets immune to the grouping are immune to the debuff.  More testing needed to verify.

Nautilus Cordon: No longer works on OGs as of today.

 

@(NSW)AegisFifi  I did verify this in game.

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Nautilus’ Cordon Precept affecting enemies that should be immune to crowd control effects. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[Traumtulpe]

I'd still really appreciate if Garuda could get her jump and the shield on overguarded enemies, I don't even need the orb or the bit of damage that comes with it.

The problem is that sometimes there are *only* enemies with overguard around, and they usually die literally the very instant their overguard is depleted, meaning Garuda basically has no abilities whatsoever in those situations.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[Tiltskillet]

9 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I'd still really appreciate if Garuda could get her jump and the shield on overguarded enemies, I don't even need the orb or the bit of damage that comes with it.

Totally agree.

[VibingCat]

On 2023-03-29 at 2:57 AM, Tiltskillet said:

Bronco Dizzying Rounds:  doesn't stun OGs but does open them to finishers

If I remember correctly, the finisher is possible only after breaking all the overguard.

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

If I remember correctly, the finisher is possible only after breaking all the overguard.

It is at least working in the Sim without breaking Overguard.  Tested with non-Incarnon Bronco Prime, and can do 3 finishers in a row if I don't dilly-dally.

[VibingCat]

22 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It is at least working in the Sim without breaking Overguard.  Tested with non-Incarnon Bronco Prime, and can do 3 finishers in a row if I don't dilly-dally.

My bad, you're right. I confused Finishers with Mercies. 

Anyway, you did a great job on this list, it must have been a long work. Well done!