Sevagoths Shadows claws Still Cannot damage arbitration drones!!!!

[AegidiusF]

Le 13/04/2023 à 02:12, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

And for over 2 years Shadows Claws have been allowed to damage arbi drones. Even after it was brought up on the forums a month after his release.

Le 13/04/2023 à 01:03, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

and there’s nothing in the patch notes about this being a deliberate change.

I've seen many answers here saying the the Claws should not work on the Drones because they are an Exhalted weapon, but I think this is a bit off topic.

Your point was perfect and clear : for 2 years the Claws could damage the Drones and there is no mention on the subsequent update notes about any change on the way the Claws used to work on the Arbitration Drones.

It's very clear and I totally agree with you that there is a problem. If it was something non intended and that got fixed, so the update notes should have mentioned this on the "Fix List". If it was intended, it is curently bugged.

This being said, I don't know what will be the future solution for this problem : a fix to make the Claws work again on Arbitration drones, or a mention on the next update notes saying that this change was a fix (and not a bug), that they forgot to mention before.

And also, there are still many abilities that are not working as intended since the last update, such as Valkyr Hysteria (not Healing), Banshee Sonic Boom (got innate 30% Armor strip). So, it's not impossible that the Claws not damaging Drones could also be a bug.

Edited April 14, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

9 hours ago, rhoenix said:

Excalibur, Garuda, Mesa, and others cannot damage the drones with their Exalted weapons.  Why should Sevagoth's be the exception to this rule?

Look - I get why you feel like something got taken away from you.  I understand that.  However, while I can sympathize with that, I don't see a valid reason why Sevagoth should have the ability to damage Arbitration drones, and other Warframes' abilities, Exalted or otherwise, cannot.

So, as I mentioned earlier - should there be conditions under which Warframe abilities be able to damage the drones, while retaining the drone's intended difficulty increase?

Or if we’re going for consistency here. How about DE makes it so when you switch to Equinox’s other form you can no longer damage arbi drones with your weapons. It’s accessing a new frame via an ability. Same as Sevagoth and Shadow. Only makes logical sense to remove the ability to damage drones with weapons for her too.

But Equinox can still use your any weapons. It's like Xaku in skeleton form.

Where can I get Dex pixia to use on any frame? Or Shadow's claws? Excal's excalibur melee? So on and so forth. I cannot. They are "created from air".

[rhoenix]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Or if we’re going for consistency here. How about DE makes it so when you switch to Equinox’s other form you can no longer damage arbi drones with your weapons. It’s accessing a new frame via an ability. Same as Sevagoth and Shadow. Only makes logical sense to remove the ability to damage drones with weapons for her too.

Unless you mean using Equinox' Day form for Maim to damage the drones, which Equinox cannot do, I'm not sure what your point with that was.

 

Hey!  How about you can only damage the Arbitration drones with your Operator, to keep it nice and consistent? :)

More seriously,  I've asked you twice now for what a reasonable solution to this might be.  Both times you've given an answer based on wanting others to feel hurt & angry as you feel hurt & angry.

I understand you're mad about this. So, in order to keep it fair for you and for others, which Warframe abilities do you think should be able to damage the drones, given that the drones' intended effect is a difficulty spike of making themselves and enemies around them immune to Warframe abilities?  Melee abilities only?

[AegidiusF]

il y a 46 minutes, rhoenix a dit :

Unless you mean using Equinox' Day form for Maim to damage the drones, which Equinox cannot do, I'm not sure what your point with that was.

I think he was talking about the 1st Ability augment, that creates a "specter" of the outgoing form, whenever you change your form.

I'm perhaps wrong, but I think he was doing an analogical argument "a pari" like this :

Sevagoth's Shadow can't damage drones with its weapons because it's an ability.
Equinox specter (and perhaps also Wukong's twin) should not damage drones with its weapons for the same reason.

[rhoenix]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I think he was talking about the 1st Ability augment, that creates a "specter" of the outgoing form, whenever you change your form.

I'm perhaps wrong, but I think he was doing an analogical argument "a pari" like this :

Sevagoth's Shadow can't damage drones with its weapons because it's an ability.
Equinox specter (and perhaps also Wukong's twin) should not damage drones with its weapons for the same reason.

Fair, thank you for expanding on that.  I was not aware that those abilities could affect the drones, so I would have no issues with them being prevented from damaging the Arbitration drones as well.

Wukong's twin is more arguable, as it would use your weapon loadout, which would be an effective sidestep of the issue.  However, while still being arguable, it would still give Wukong an advantage over Arbitration drones that other frames would not have, so ultimately I wouldn't agree with the twin being able to damage them either.

[Traumtulpe]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

The claws have been allowed to damage arbi drones for 2 years despite it be brought up very early on and it being a very easy thing to code onto the claws. Suddenly changing that without even putting it in the patch notes makes zero sense.

Dude welcome to Warframe. This stuff happens all the time. 5 years down the line you'll get either a shadow nerf, or one line in the patchnotes (hidden in an unrelated section), saying something like "We fixed a bug with X that we had intended to be different all along".

Fact of the matter is, his claws are an exalted weapon. And exalted weapons don't work on those drones. Be happy DE didn't get to fix this particular bug for 2 years, I guess? Though 2 years is by no means a long lifespan for bugs in this game.

[Tiltskillet]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

The claws have been allowed to damage arbi drones for 2 years despite it be brought up very early on and it being a very easy thing to code onto the claws. Suddenly changing that without even putting it in the patch notes makes zero sense.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were so new to Warframe.  It's a very cool game and the developers are brilliant in many ways, but the product is buggy and inconsistent and it's not rare for these to stick around a lot longer than two years.  And, like every game company, they miss things in patch notes all the time.   Usually minor stuff, but not always.  :(

That being said, I think you'll have a great experience in this game, and I hope you stick around.  Check out Revenant when you get a chance!  Very good in Arbitrations, and definitely one of the coolest frames from a thematic standpoint.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I've seen many answers here saying the the Claws should not work on the Drones because they are an Exhalted weapon, but I think this is a bit off topic.

Your point was perfect and clear : for 2 years the Claws could damage the Drones and there is no mention on the subsequent update notes about any change on the way the Claws used to work on the Arbitration Drones.

It's very clear and I totally agree with you that there is a problem. If it was something non intended and that got fixed, so the update notes should have mentioned this on the "Fix List". If it was intended, it is curently bugged.

This being said, I don't know what will be the future solution for this problem : a fix to make the Claws work again on Arbitration drones, or a mention on the next update notes saying that this change was a fix (and not a bug), that they forgot to mention before.

And also, there are still many abilities that are not working as intended since the last update, such as Valkyr Hysteria (not Healing), Banshee Sonic Boom (got innate 30% Armor strip). So, it's not impossible that the Claws not damaging Drones could also be a bug.

The fix is simple. Give the claws back the function they had. End of issue.

And Yeah, I’m hoping it is just part of the issue of other frames abilities also not working as intended.

9 hours ago, quxier said:

But Equinox can still use your any weapons. It's like Xaku in skeleton form.

Where can I get Dex pixia to use on any frame? Or Shadow's claws? Excal's excalibur melee? So on and so forth. I cannot. They are "created from air".

Technically so are regular weapons if you disable “seen when holstered”.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, rhoenix said:

Unless you mean using Equinox' Day form for Maim to damage the drones, which Equinox cannot do, I'm not sure what your point with that was.

 

Hey!  How about you can only damage the Arbitration drones with your Operator, to keep it nice and consistent? :)

More seriously,  I've asked you twice now for what a reasonable solution to this might be.  Both times you've given an answer based on wanting others to feel hurt & angry as you feel hurt & angry.

I understand you're mad about this. So, in order to keep it fair for you and for others, which Warframe abilities do you think should be able to damage the drones, given that the drones' intended effect is a difficulty spike of making themselves and enemies around them immune to Warframe abilities?  Melee abilities only?

No I’m talking about disabling your weapons from damaging arbi drones when you switch Equinox’s form. Since you’re playing a different Warframe that was created via ability. Thus an ability is wielding weapons. And by your logic the weapons should not deal damage to arbi drones.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Dude welcome to Warframe. This stuff happens all the time. 5 years down the line you'll get either a shadow nerf, or one line in the patchnotes (hidden in an unrelated section), saying something like "We fixed a bug with X that we had intended to be different all along".

Fact of the matter is, his claws are an exalted weapon. And exalted weapons don't work on those drones. Be happy DE didn't get to fix this particular bug for 2 years, I guess? Though 2 years is by no means a long lifespan for bugs in this game.

 

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Sorry, I didn't realize you were so new to Warframe.  It's a very cool game and the developers are brilliant in many ways, but the product is buggy and inconsistent and it's not rare for these to stick around a lot longer than two years.  And, like every game company, they miss things in patch notes all the time.   Usually minor stuff, but not always.  :(

That being said, I think you'll have a great experience in this game, and I hope you stick around.  Check out Revenant when you get a chance!  Very good in Arbitrations, and definitely one of the coolest frames from a thematic standpoint.

Again, there was literally a post on the forums talking about how Shadow Claws could damage arbi drones. You can’t use the excuse “it was overlooked for 2 years” when people made an effort to bring it to light very early on.

If it was truly unintended it would’ve been swiftly fixed in one of the updates following that. Not 2 whole years after.

[rhoenix]

Just now, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

No I’m talking about disabling your weapons from damaging arbi drones when you switch Equinox’s form. Since you’re playing a different Warframe that was created via ability. Thus an ability is wielding weapons. And by your logic the weapons should not deal damage to arbi drones.

The logic used by DE is "Warframe abilities, Exalted or not, cannot damage the Arbitration drones."

So, no - your example does not follow that logic.  This is because no matter which form Equinox is in, one is still using weapons to damage the drones, not abilities.  Unless you're talking about using Maim specifically, which wouldn't work because, again, it's an ability. 

 

I'll ask one last time - if you would like to keep Sevagoth's ability to damage the drones, which other Warframe abilities do you think should be able to do so, and why?

[Cr4zyDoc]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)GearsMatrix301:

 

Again, there was literally a post on the forums talking about how Shadow Claws could damage arbi drones. You can’t use the excuse “it was overlooked for 2 years” when people made an effort to bring it to light very early on.

If it was truly unintended it would’ve been swiftly fixed in one of the updates following that. Not 2 whole years after.

Do you know how many overlooked things got patched years or month after? DE is not known for fixing stuff swiftly. especially if its such a niche thing on a frame thats not played by many. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by AstrayRed84

[quxier]

30 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

9 hours ago, quxier said:

But Equinox can still use your any weapons. It's like Xaku in skeleton form.

Where can I get Dex pixia to use on any frame? Or Shadow's claws? Excal's excalibur melee? So on and so forth. I cannot. They are "created from air".

Technically so are regular weapons if you disable “seen when holstered”.

That's just for gamer's convenience. When you gathering loot you are not physically caring it with you in some bag/box. Your companion is too stupid to do such things (it cannot even survive).

To be honest I'm talking with you for long time and we don't get any consensus. I could argue more but honestly it's not great for such topics (bug reports). If you want you can pm me.

[emmyemi]

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but Sevagoth's claws shouldn't be able to damage arbi drones. They are a weapon that is accessed via an ability, and I don't see how they should be any different from Mesa's Peacemakers or Titania's Dex Pixia, etc.

The fact that the bug was in the game for ~2yrs is kind of irrelevant here, because the core of the issue is that it gave Sevagoth an advantage that other frames didn't have, that also goes against the intended design of the drones being invulnerable to all abilities. I get that it's frustrating for the change to come so suddenly out of nowhere, but it isn't an illogical or unfair change.

Edited April 14, 2023 by emmyemi

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

19 hours ago, AstrayRed84 said:

Do you know how many overlooked things got patched years or month after? DE is not known for fixing stuff swiftly. especially if its such a niche thing on a frame thats not played by many. 

Yes, but they put those fixes in the patch notes. There’s nothing in the patch notes about this.

19 hours ago, rhoenix said:

The logic used by DE is "Warframe abilities, Exalted or not, cannot damage the Arbitration drones."

So, no - your example does not follow that logic.  This is because no matter which form Equinox is in, one is still using weapons to damage the drones, not abilities.  Unless you're talking about using Maim specifically, which wouldn't work because, again, it's an ability. 

 

I'll ask one last time - if you would like to keep Sevagoth's ability to damage the drones, which other Warframe abilities do you think should be able to do so, and why?

I want shadow claws to damage arbi drones like they have for the last 2 years. Nothing else.

18 hours ago, emmyemi said:

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but Sevagoth's claws shouldn't be able to damage arbi drones. They are a weapon that is accessed via an ability, and I don't see how they should be any different from Mesa's Peacemakers or Titania's Dex Pixia, etc.

The fact that the bug was in the game for ~2yrs is kind of irrelevant here, because the core of the issue is that it gave Sevagoth an advantage that other frames didn't have, that also goes against the intended design of the drones being invulnerable to all abilities. I get that it's frustrating for the change to come so suddenly out of nowhere, but it isn't an illogical or unfair change.

It was brought up in the forums shortly after Sevagoths release. So it was definitely on DE’s radar. If it truly was unintentional they soundly have waited 2 whole years to change it.

[Cr4zyDoc]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)GearsMatrix301:

Yes, but they put those fixes in the patch notes. There’s nothing in the patch notes about this.

I want shadow claws to damage arbi drones like they have for the last 2 years. Nothing else.

It was brought up in the forums shortly after Sevagoths release. So it was definitely on DE’s radar. If it truly was unintentional they soundly have waited 2 whole years to change it.

Wrong. they changed stuff in the past without it being in the patch notes. 

you just dont get it. the claws belong to Sevagoth ability. no ability is supposed to be able to dmg drones.  So no, they wont change it back. even if you used this unintended feature aka exploit for two years.

And dont argue with them being weapons. they are not independent from sevagoth. they cant be used on other frames therefor ARE Part of his ability. Theres nothing to argue about that.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

23 hours ago, AstrayRed84 said:

Wrong. they changed stuff in the past without it being in the patch notes. 

you just dont get it. the claws belong to Sevagoth ability. no ability is supposed to be able to dmg drones.  So no, they wont change it back. even if you used this unintended feature aka exploit for two years.

And dont argue with them being weapons. they are not independent from sevagoth. they cant be used on other frames therefor ARE Part of his ability. Theres nothing to argue about that.

But Shadow is effectively its own frame an should have a form of attack that’s not considered an ability.

So it’s either let claws damage arbi drones to make DE let other melee weapons be used by Shadow and try and get those animations working on that character rig.

[Cr4zyDoc]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)GearsMatrix301:

But Shadow is effectively its own frame an should have a form of attack that’s not considered an ability.

So it’s either let claws damage arbi drones to make DE let other melee weapons be used by Shadow and try and get those animations working on that character rig.

 

Or keep it like it is now to bring him in line with all the other frames. None part of any Frames ability can damage the drones. its supposed to be like that. 

Shadow IS an ability. same as Razorwing or Equinox day and night forms. with the only diffrence being the diffrent weapons they use.

Asking to rework a frame just so his ability can hit arbi drones is becoming nonsense at this point. as does this thread. No they wont do it.

Its like people would start to ask for DE to make us use other arch guns on titania to damage said drones. pure nonsense.

 

But at this point im sure you refuse to understand or accept.  Not able to see that ur alone with this opinion. everyone else being able to see it was unintended from the start by just reading the title. 

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, AstrayRed84 said:

 

Or keep it like it is now to bring him in line with all the other frames. None part of any Frames ability can damage the drones. its supposed to be like that. 

Shadow IS an ability. same as Razorwing or Equinox day and night forms. with the only diffrence being the diffrent weapons they use.

Asking to rework a frame just so his ability can hit arbi drones is becoming nonsense at this point. as does this thread. No they wont do it.

Its like people would start to ask for DE to make us use other arch guns on titania to damage said drones. pure nonsense.

 

But at this point im sure you refuse to understand or accept.  Not able to see that ur alone with this opinion. everyone else being able to see it was unintended from the start by just reading the title. 

 

Except Sevagoth is the only frame who’s exalted is a completely different frame.

So making it follow the rules of frames with only exalted weapons is asinine. It would be like holding exalted ranged weapons to the same standards as exalted melee weapons.

[Cr4zyDoc]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (XBOX)GearsMatrix301:

Except Sevagoth is the only frame who’s exalted is a completely different frame.

So making it follow the rules of frames with only exalted weapons is asinine. It would be like holding exalted ranged weapons to the same standards as exalted melee weapons.

wrong it makes for consistency.  and oh well, warframes have unique powers. But it doesnt change a simple FACT: ANY warframe ability is supposed to NOT work on Arbitration drones!!! frames having diffrent forms etc does NOT change that. we already have frames who change forms and guess what, their abilitys do NOT WORK on these drones. 

 

Im not sure if you at this point just act stupid to troll. ignoring the facts and trying to desperatly find an excuse for an exploit that got fixed. 

I mean everyone says the same here... should make you think. But well maybe this is expected to much from someone playing a Mature rated game. 

 

But go on crying. I wont explain those facts to you any further if you are not able to accept facts.

[cute_moth.npc]

On 2023-04-12 at 5:14 PM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Her razor wing weapons are her exalted weapons.

Shadow is the exalted Warframe of Sevagoth. And it has its own unique melee weapon which are its claws. Also, making it so the character you’re controlling completely incapable of damaging certain enemies is terrible game design. There’s a clear reason why the claws were allowed to damage drones.

And it was already brought up far far earlier. And DE didn’t nerf the claws then. There’s no reason they suddenly would now with zero documentation of the change.

the claws not working is clearly a but, but that doesn’t make me any less furious about it.

I mean.. Arbitration is just terrible game design? Actually it might be some of the worst design in this game. It comes so close with some neat ideas like the death / coin mechanic but then turns around and nullifies itself with a massive flaw:

It rewards the player more and more for using spammier, wider AoE weapons more than any other mode in the game while blocking things like Dex Pixia and now Sevagoth claws saying "no no we are trying to get you to engage with the content"

Your reward is dependent on killing the drones as fast as possible + the best way to destroy the drones is to literally just spam explosives. Arbitration heavily encourages you to cheese it as hard as you can.

The faster you completely trivialize the content and make it one of the easiest game modes in Warframe, the more Vitus you get ^^;

I would not expect smart adjustments to begin with, lol.

Edited April 19, 2023 by cute_moth.npc

[rhoenix]

13 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I mean.. Arbitration in general is just terrible game design? Actually it might be some of the worst design in this game.

It rewards the player more and more for using spammier, wider AoE weapons more than any other mode in the game while blocking things like Dex Pixia and now Sevagoth claws saying "no no we are trying to get you to engage with the content"

The faster you completely trivialize the content and make it one of the easiest game modes in Warframe, the more Virus you get ^^;

I would not expect smart adjustments to begin with, lol. 

Yeah, point there.

On the one hand, there's "NO USING WARFRAME ABILITIES, that'll make it harder and more challenging!", and on the other hand, the Zarr, Tonkor, and many others exist and work with no issues whatsoever.

What's the solution for that?  Well, one lame idea is to tie it into Void / Corrupted influence - change it so enemies have a strong chance of being empowered in some way (Corrupted, infused with spooky Infested larvae, etc.), and killing the empowered enemies drops the shinies.

EDIT: And yes, I'd say Warframe abilities should work on those empowered enemies.

Edited April 16, 2023 by rhoenix

[cute_moth.npc]

14 minutes ago, rhoenix said:

Yeah, point there.

On the one hand, there's "NO USING WARFRAME ABILITIES, that'll make it harder and more challenging!", and on the other hand, the Zarr, Tonkor, and many others exist and work with no issues whatsoever.

What's the solution for that?  Well, one lame idea is to tie it into Void / Corrupted influence - change it so enemies have a strong chance of being empowered in some way (Corrupted, infused with spooky Infested larvae, etc.), and killing the empowered enemies drops the shinies.

I'm evil so I have a different suggestion:

1. Increase the vitus drop chance per each drone kill. Everyone loves Vitus!!

Wait for it..

2. Destroying a drone using AoE causes the super fragile Vitus essence trapped inside to SHATTER AND YOU GET NOTHING

Edited April 16, 2023 by cute_moth.npc
My phone keeps auto correcting Vitus to virus

[rhoenix]

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

I'm evil so I have a different suggestion:

1. Increase the virus drop chance per each drone kill. Everyone loves Vitus!!

Wait for it..

2. Destroying a drone using AoE causes the super fragile Virus essence trapped inside to SHATTER AND YOU GET NOTHING

 

 

You know... I wouldn't be against that.  Let Warframe abilities work just fine, and use of AoE weapons will prevent the Vitus drop.

[Tiltskillet]

9 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I'm evil so I have a different suggestion:

1. Increase the vitus drop chance per each drone kill. Everyone loves Vitus!!

Wait for it..

2. Destroying a drone using AoE causes the super fragile Vitus essence trapped inside to SHATTER AND YOU GET NOTHING

Before the AoE nerfs, I'd often propose AoE disintegrating loot.  No need for an ammo nerf then!

Kind of a joke, but not totally a joke.