Overguard prevents Nekros' Shadow Punch from instantly turning the enemies into Shadows, and by extension doesn't apply Marked for Harvest

[(PSN)rexis12]

I noticed something was off when I used Soul Punch and then instantly killed one of the enemies to get a specific Eximus unit, but it failed. So I tested it and realised that Overguard blocks the Instant Shadow Turn and by extension the Marked for Harvest ability.

For whatever reason.

You see here that Soul Punch, which applies Marked for Harvest and instantly kills the enemies doesn't do so with the ones with Overguard, while the ones that don't have it, well get turned into Shadows.

This is really annoying, since Soul Punch is already a meme, but the fact that we can't even hyper focus on specific targets to get them for Shadow's Of The Dead is just painful.

[AsffluffyZ]

What out if overguard was removed does it convert eximus then?

[(PSN)rexis12]

5 minutes ago, AsffluffyZ said:

What out if overguard was removed does it convert eximus then?

Yeah it does, the Leech that I manually removed the Overguard from can be turned.

Meaning that the problem is with Overguard.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Hmm, seems Overguard absorbs all special effects from abilities, as it was intended to.
If you are at a level where you can insta-kill / convert with a single cast of Soul Punch, even with Overguard, then it probably isn't that much of a bummer.

[Vryheid]

Yeah, that's a weirdly specific interaction but it comes off as more of a bug than a balancing issue. It makes sense that if you blast through an Eximus unit in one hit, through both their health and overguard, that any "on-death" status effects should in fact apply. I'd honestly suggest reporting it as one because I can't see why anyone would think being able to resurrect dead enemies that you're already killing anyways in one hit might somehow be overpowered.

[(PSN)rexis12]

9 minutes ago, Vryheid said:

Yeah, that's a weirdly specific interaction but it comes off as more of a bug than a balancing issue. It makes sense that if you blast through an Eximus unit in one hit, through both their health and overguard, that any "on-death" status effects should in fact apply. I'd honestly suggest reporting it as one because I can't see why anyone would think being able to resurrect dead enemies that you're already killing anyways in one hit might somehow be overpowered.

You think so?

More clarification, the Marked for Harvest effect that happens when you use Soul Punch doesn't apply on Overguarded enemies. You see even though I kill the Eximus immediately after, it doesn't turn into a Shadow but the normal Ancient does.

I did another test, didn't record this time, but even if I punch though Overguard it still doesn't apply the mark and doesn't spawn a Shadow on death.

[Tiltskillet]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Hmm, seems Overguard absorbs all special effects from abilities

Not all; some. 

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

as it was intended to.

As far as we've been told, the intended impact on abilities and weapon effects was this:

"While Overguard is active, it will keep Eximus units immune to Warframe crowd control abilities and anything that will stagger, knockdown, stun, mind control, ragdoll, and blind. Additionally, Overguarded enemies will be unaffected by Radiation Status Effects and will be susceptible to a maximum of 4 Cold Status Effects at one time."

Lots of exceptions and oddities--way too many, particularly after a year--but not so many that they make the stated intent false.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 42 minutos, Tiltskillet dijo:

Not all; some.

Lack of proper wording from my part; by absorb I mean abilities that are only applicable while aiming at targets, such as Ensnare, or that apply unique effects, such as Petrify, Radial Blind or Avalanche. I guess those that have "direct" impact on the target, is a better way to put it.

This is most surely due to the different internal behaviour of abilities, some work as weapons, some directly. Soul Punch is one of those "direct" abilities and due to it not being a projectile, like Oberon's Smite, or coming from a "source" be it something that spits out projectiles or the frame itself, Overguard straight-up "eats" the effect it should have on kill.

I've read those oddities you researched and a lot of them actually seem really normal things to me, like Chroma's inflicting cold as intended and so on.
In the case of Silence, it is really strange that eximus barriers are unaffected by it, am guessing they are not an actual ability but something else?
It seems that the way abilities interact with Overguard indeed has a lot to do with whether they are treated as weapons, projectiles, "direct effects", or summons, like Bladestorm.

Mind if I request you to try something, since you seem pretty avid at this theme?
Could you pick the Vaykor Sydon and test if the special attack it has does blind Eximus with OG? This could confirm my suspicions.

[Tiltskillet]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

ack of proper wording from my part; by absorb I mean abilities that are only applicable while aiming at targets, such as Ensnare, or that apply unique effects, such as Petrify, Radial Blind or Avalanche. I guess those that have "direct" impact on the target, is a better way to put it.

Maybe, although offhand it doesn't seem to explain Magnetize.  I wish I had a list of abilities that require targets, or just had a more thorough knowledge of what non-CC effects are blocked by Overguard.

57 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

I've read those oddities you researched and a lot of them actually seem really normal things to me, like Chroma's inflicting cold as intended and so on.

Well the title of that thread is "CC effects that work through Overguard" not "CC effects that work through Overguard BUT SHOULDN'T".  :P  (And things like cold procs and Silence that are expressly intended to work are differentiated from the other kind.)

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Could you pick the Vaykor Sydon and test if the special attack it has does blind Eximus with OG? This could confirm my suspicions.

That's already in that thread.  It does work.  Notably -all blinds- work through Overguard, even though that's one of the CC effects expressly stated to be disabled.

[Venefik]

Spoiler

*Casually changes mind and erases the ted talk about Overguard*

 That probably happens because Soul Punch has a ragdoll, and instead of blocking just the cc, Overguard ends up blocking all the effects. The same thing happens with some other skills, such as Nightynox's Pacify (last time I tested anyways). The base ability is just a debuff that decreases enemy damage, and the augment is what adds a slow. Overguard blocks the whole thing, even if you cast it without the augment.

 Actually, this doesn't happen with abilities only: last time I tried to use the Zymos, I noticed how the headshot Swarms (which follow a mini-stun) don't work because overguard blocks the little brief cc that comes before them.

 All we can do is report the issues, which are hopefully unintended, and see if these get fixed. Who knows, maybe they'll even realize that the ragdoll is detrimental and replace it with a knock down or stagger. This way Nekros can actually kill the enemies he marks for death instead of marking them and sending them to a safe base far far away in space. 😋