SP Circuit can be Cheesed Legitly as Operator; Why the Strict Random Choices?

[CosmicHermitCrab]

The point of this thread is to show that SP Circuit can be easily cheesed with a customized Operator (legitly) and it's not such an impressive feat to accomplish. Thus, why not just make it easier and more fun for the bigger casual playerbase? Also, I think extra Duviri intrinsics should be another form of currency for buying random (weapon choices) loadout rerolls. They are nonexistent of any use, atm.
Newer players are already overwhelmed by many layers of poorly explained content in Warframe and they, along with future generations, will be needed to grow the Warframe community.
For once I agree with the newbies, what's the point of making the game harder in this new game mode (if I can easily cheese it with the operator)? 
(Full live run of the SP Circuit Mission with only Operator in Video's Description)

Edit: New Argument: I am worried the Circuit game mode might be too limiting, atm. There is a need for balance with such a game mode and atm it's too limiting for mid-tier players. At least let them choose their basic (default) mods, from the current default mod pool, for the default mod loadouts instead of just giving them poorly optimized premade default loadouts.

Edited June 1 by CosmicHermitCrab

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Well first, newer players don't have nor should have access to steel path. 

Second, it takes some time to power up your operator, so if you have a good operator build I say great. Use that then. 👍

[CoffeeElemental]

Impressive, very nice.

The only downside I can see - is using the Operator.

exdee

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I do think the operators need improvements and melee, the fact that it said you got melee kill to me says the operators need melee (void melee).

Edited June 5 by (PSN)Vexx757

[TheRoyalBrook]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Well first, newer players don't have nor should have access to steel path. 

Second, it takes some time to power up your operator, so if you have a good operator build I say great. Use that then. 👍

exactly like, most players likely aren't going to have mobbing amps + a kit built to handle it. Can it be done? yes. I do it all the time, but its far from the norm, and I see it more as a "reward" for gearing out your operator/drifter to be able to handle steel path enemies

[cute_moth.npc]

I did this for the first week or so before I started selling gear, using Vazarin + 746 + Melt / Lockdown / Eradicate / Tempo.

It works, but it got boringly repetitive too.

I think it's literally just trying to create a challenge by randomly preventing players from picking their most faceroll gear because the game has massive design imbalances that have been unaddressed for years.

Edited May 26 by cute_moth.npc

[Tiltskillet]

DE: "...so,  to make the Circuit experience more consistent with roguelite play, Operator amps, arcanes, and nodes will now be randomized as well."

[AceOfCayde]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

DE: "...so,  to make the Circuit experience more consistent with roguelite play, Operator amps, arcanes, and nodes will now be randomized as well."

I think you're saying this as a joke, but I've actually made this suggestion 😂 If it's going to be randomized kit options, Randomize the whole kit. Lots of people have been saying "just use x focus school with a x amp if you get a bad loadout", and to me that completely defeats the purpose of the randomizer. I'm really stuck in the middle on the randomized loadouts concept as a whole, but I completely believe that if they're going to randomize your Warframe and weapon selections, they should do the same for Operator (focus school) and Amps to really level the playing field.

[Tiltskillet]

14 minutes ago, AceOfCayde said:

I think you're saying this as a joke, but I've actually made this suggestion 😂 If it's going to be randomized kit options, Randomize the whole kit. Lots of people have been saying "just use x focus school with a x amp if you get a bad loadout", and to me that completely defeats the purpose of the randomizer. I'm really stuck in the middle on the randomized loadouts concept as a whole, but I completely believe that if they're going to randomize your Warframe and weapon selections, they should do the same for Operator (focus school) and Amps to really level the playing field.

I mean, that seems fair to me.  But I wouldn't be as affected as many, as my operator use is relatively minimal.   Actually it could benefit me some in one regard, as there are plenty of random amps that would be better than what I've got. :P

But IMO DE often has a background agenda in nudging us more toward operator play, and a foreground agenda in the case of the Circuit  in encouraging more variety in general.  So I think if they're seeing an increase in operator usage, they probably think of it as a positive effect.

[(XBOX)McNersty]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

DE: "...so,  to make the Circuit experience more consistent with roguelite play, Operator amps, arcanes, and nodes will now be randomized as well."

You joke, but that's very likely to happen. They don't backpedal poor decisions, they double down.

[AceOfCayde]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I mean, that seems fair to me.  But I wouldn't be as affected as many, as my operator use is relatively minimal.   Actually it could benefit me some in one regard, as there are plenty of random amps that would be better than what I've got. :P

But IMO DE often has a background agenda in nudging us more toward operator play, and a foreground agenda in the case of the Circuit  in encouraging more variety in general.  So I think if they're seeing an increase in operator usage, they probably think of it as a positive effect.

I'm pretty much in the same camp. Amp is one area where I haven't bothered to do much of the syndicate farming except for very specific things, so if they gave me random amps I might actually like one and go farming to assemble it or something similar.

Also, yes... most updates seem to have some sort of nudge (and sometimes shove) toward operator usage. I don't usually mind, but I would like it a lot more if they actually made the operator more fun to use. Right now they're a bit too slow, too squishy, amp runs out of shots too fast, no melee, and imo they need some combat-focused abilities that aren't tied to a specific school. Each of these areas can already be improved a bit by certain focus schools, but you can't use them all at the same time and even for what you can unlocking them from the focus school is quite the chore.

[Mr.Holyroller]

I wouldnt really call it a "cheese"
Its a major investment to have your operator set up to handle 5-10 rounds of SP Circuit solo

[Packetdancer]

4 hours ago, AceOfCayde said:

they should do the same for Operator (focus school) and Amps to really level the playing field.

I would, however, then like to suggest that you should additionally be able to set a different Focus school explicitly as the target for the Focus gains you get from Thrax kills.

Because for folks who are trying to rank up Focus schools, being able to pick one and then max out their daily Focus gain in that school due to the Thrax kills in the Circuit is actually an immense benefit. If you randomize the Focus school, you not only prevent them targeting those gains to a specific Focus school, but now you also potentially spend their entire daily Focus cap on some entirely random school, rather than what they wanted to try to build up.

Which would not be the intent, no, but the result would sure as heck be counter-productive there.

[RobouteRob]

Whatever they do, they better not mess with my vazarinboi ability to gasp last. (Imagining myself get a random mote-amp with random poop tier amp/operator arcanes)

[Packetdancer]

36 minutes ago, RobouteRob said:

Whatever they do, they better not mess with my vazarinboi ability to gasp last.

*stage whisper* Last Gasp is an Unairu Waybound, not Vazarin.

(I agree otherwise.)

[RobouteRob]

1 minute ago, Packetdancer said:

*stage whisper* Last Gasp is an Unairu Waybound, not Vazarin.

(I agree otherwise.)

*Check ingame*

.

.

.

*clemface*

[Packetdancer]

1 minute ago, RobouteRob said:

*Check ingame*

I won't lie, I double-checked myself before I posted juuuust in case I was remembering wrong. 😅

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

They already made dinner and by god we're going to eat it whether we like it or not.  It doesn't matter that it's burned.

[MekaDovah]

On 2023-05-26 at 1:58 PM, AceOfCayde said:

I think you're saying this as a joke, but I've actually made this suggestion 😂 If it's going to be randomized kit options, Randomize the whole kit. Lots of people have been saying "just use x focus school with a x amp if you get a bad loadout", and to me that completely defeats the purpose of the randomizer. I'm really stuck in the middle on the randomized loadouts concept as a whole, but I completely believe that if they're going to randomize your Warframe and weapon selections, they should do the same for Operator (focus school) and Amps to really level the playing field.

More like destroy the playing field altogether.

[AceOfCayde]

51 minutes ago, MekaDovah said:

More like destroy the playing field altogether.

How is it any different than randomizing your warframe, guns, and possibly even mods? If you don't like the randomization in general, that's one thing, and totally understandable.

But when it comes to people who do enjoy the randomization, randomizing focus school and amps should be no different than randomizing warframes and weapons.

[TheRoyalBrook]

1 hour ago, AceOfCayde said:

How is it any different than randomizing your warframe, guns, and possibly even mods? If you don't like the randomization in general, that's one thing, and totally understandable.

But when it comes to people who do enjoy the randomization, randomizing focus school and amps should be no different than randomizing warframes and weapons.

I enjoy randomization but randomizing focus schools -especially- would dramatically mess with people. And in a far less fun way. Got all your points in zenurik and often use it for energy on your builds? too bad, naramon. Meanwhile guns and frames can all be built and it offers you choices rather than locking you into a strict option.

[RobouteRob]

1 hour ago, AceOfCayde said:

randomizing focus school and amps should be no different than randomizing warframes and weapons.

I like circuit, having a blast with it and finished with tier 50+ in my first week (second and third week's tier is way lower and I can see myself doing the bare minimun this week since the novelty wears out) and never do the operator cheese even once.

 

I'm not going to say randomization here, a "mismatch" focus school and warframe combo is definitely different than randomizing my 100% completed arsenal + limiting our gear pick and will definitely hurt the first couple of starting rounds especially when I carry other tennos.

Have you tried playing circuit (especially a long one) with a mismatched wf-focus combo bruv? I know masochistic people exist but....lets not dig deeper into that.

Like I said, I've played circuit extensively and sometimes I forget, sometimes I don't even bother to change it just to try it out and I did a couple runs with weird wf-focus combo such as hildryn with zenurik, or any of my 45 efficiency build without zenurik, or bringing naramon when I got 3 crap melee pick. With all these decree crutches? Sure, I can make it work, but those runs are some of my most painful runs and you want me to get more of that? I know masochistic people exist but....do I repeat myself?

29 minutes ago, TheRoyalBrook said:

I enjoy randomization

Just curious, what makes you enjoy it?

I spent all these circuit times and I found no enjoyable from the randomization and found it weird that people can enjoy it.

My only wild guess is if I was a whateverframe-main man and this whole randomization have expanded my horizon.

Edited May 29 by RobouteRob

[TheRoyalBrook]

12 minutes ago, RobouteRob said:

I like circuit, having a blast with it and finished with tier 50+ in my first week (second and third week's tier is way lower and I can see myself doing the bare minimun this week since the novelty wears out) and never do the operator cheese even once.

 

I'm not going to say randomization here, a "mismatch" focus school and warframe combo is definitely different than randomizing my 100% completed arsenal + limiting our gear pick and will definitely hurt the first couple of starting rounds especially when I carry other tennos.

Have you tried playing circuit (especially a long one) with a mismatched wf-focus combo bruv? I know masochistic people exist but....lets not dig deeper into that.

Like I said, I've played circuit extensively and sometimes I forget, sometimes I don't even bother to change it just to try it out and I did a couple runs with weird wf-focus combo such as hildryn with zenurik, or any of my 45 efficiency build without zenurik, or bringing naramon when I got 3 crap melee pick. With all these decree crutches? Sure, I can make it work, but those runs are some of my most painful runs and you want me to get more of that? I know masochistic people exist but....do I repeat myself?

Just curious, what makes you enjoy it?

I spent all these circuit times and I found no enjoyable from the randomization and found it weird that people can enjoy it.

My only wild guess is if I was a whateverframe-main man and this whole randomization have expanded my horizon.

That's a fairly odd question. I enjoy it -because- its randomized and balanced around it. I have tons of frames and weapons, and while I swap around fairly frequently there's some I hadn't touched in ages. And on top of that paired with decrees it makes a really neato roguelite style feedback loop. Eventually no matter what you get you'll be able to handle steel path enemies like they're nothing. ESPECIALLY with the status spread decree

[RobouteRob]

18 minutes ago, TheRoyalBrook said:

That's a fairly odd question. I enjoy it -because- its randomized and balanced around it. I have tons of frames and weapons, and while I swap around fairly frequently there's some I hadn't touched in ages. And on top of that paired with decrees it makes a really neato roguelite style feedback loop. Eventually no matter what you get you'll be able to handle steel path enemies like they're nothing. ESPECIALLY with the status spread decree

Just to be clear randomization and decrees both are part of the circuit and I'm not going to say anything about the "balanced around it"-looking at my team's two saryns, I like circuit, I loooove decrees, I have and still used tons of differently built frames too but randomization? at the very best I tolerate it.

Just legitly curious, I'm not disapprove of anything, just...maybe I can get some more fun if I apply the same mindset toward the circuit because I'm running out of gas now.

Edited May 29 by RobouteRob

[Frendh]

Go ahead and use your operator.