SP Circuit can be Cheesed Legitly as Operator; Why the Strict Random Choices?

[Metalgearfox]

On 2023-05-25 at 11:44 PM, CosmicHermitCrab said:

The point of this thread is to show that SP Circuit can be easily cheesed with a customized Operator (legitly)

You can also get melee perks and just press E over and over and do just fine.

It's not a big deal.

Warframe is built to be cheesed.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

6 hours ago, Metalgearfox said:

You can also get melee perks and just press E over and over and do just fine.

It's not a big deal.

Warframe is built to be cheesed.

So why not buff/add the other perks, the gun ones? It's already cheese, why not more cheese?

Has it always been CheeseFrame?...Always has been.
 

 

Edited June 6 by CosmicHermitCrab

[Lord_Drod]

Also, maybe you're right and the reception is mostly positive.  Reading some others things and combining that with my limited pub experience, it seems like this mode was mostly designed for new players and beginners.

New players start on the easy circuit, get hooked on the gameplay and are sure to check out the SP rewards.  Then decrees and static defense and basic missions is also for them.  DE then thinks any veteran will do it regardless and probably isn't giving them $ anyway.

So I guess they know what they're doing here and I'm just an outlier or in that 0.5%.  

They also have to time gate the circuit or it would not get completed.  Apparently, people need that pressure to get them to play.  It's not really SP.  That's just to make SP junkies feel like they're included in this update.

Also, it's a refresh of starter weapons that are either easy to obtain or many beginners have.

Maybe all this was already mentioned and I was confused by people acting like this is some end game for the elite.  It definitely seems the opposite.

It's still seems like quite a bit of grinding for a newer player to me and getting those broken incarnons early would ruin the huge lot of weapons.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

22 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

Sorry if I sounded rude when you were speculating about the community viewing this update as medium positive or generally positive etc.  I guess its because from my point of view I see so many issues with this update, specifically the circuit and I couldn't have a more opposite view than yours.  It sounded worse through text, as most things do if you don't know the person.  You obviously reached your own conclusions and saw a lot of positive comments that made you feel that way.

 

All good, no worries, you didn't come off as rude, just dismissive. Which isn't the worst thing, just not always the best for conversation. For example I am a pretty friendly and chill person, but that probably won't come through as much, if I have to deal with dismissive points, because well I can either be as dismissive too, which some people do, but eh, not really my style. Just leads to people being dismissive of each others points, or I can question the purpose behind that, but sometimes people can infer negativity from that too. 

To myself, the two are inherently seperate. The issues I personally see, won't always be the same as how others view it. It also gets more complicated, because people have different expectations, and that can influence how they end up feeling. If you are good at predicting outcomes, you can still be critical, but not necessary express as much. For example, I know that some people wanted the New War quest to be larger and more epic, with giant space battles, and more Corpus, and Grineer involvement, and for it to last months, and be on a larger scale, and so would I... in a more ideal situation, but eh, with the pandemic, lock downs, and certain costs. Like creating a mission the likes that some can envision, versus the reality of a situation... So people can shift around expectations. 

Oh and small correction, but I haven't actually reached any conclusions. Also I don't feel that way. Some people may think or operate in such ways, but I am not invested in any one conclusion. Are you big on science? Like approaching things from a scientific viewpoint? I'm actively taking in more data constantly, and my outlook may change significantly depending on what new data I may come across. For example, if we get a survey on Duviri that has over 1000 participants, and the majority are in the negative category, (like if you had five options, two negative, one neutral, two positive) I'd conceded thats pretty compelling evidence, a majority may be negative on the Duviri. 

For example, DE is pretty open about how Railjack's launch could have been a lot better, and acknowledges many fans were disappointed and fairly so. Reb has talked about Lunaro not resonating with fans quite a bit. It may happen as much as some people wish, but they do touch on certain aspects of the game, that are more miss than hit. So lets say at Tennocon they decided that Circuit would get massive overhauls to some of its aspects (like the RNG part is totally done aware with), as opposed to additions or bug fixes, then that would also probably be a sign too. If the RNG aspects stay, could be a sign that a silent majority of players are fine with it. 

So there is a lot that could shift my perspective and change my mind. It also doesn't just always coincide with how I feel. I am perfectly fine being a minority on a lot of different topics, Warframe specific and in general. Its usually what actually gives me a pretty good neutral ability to analyse stuff more fairly/neutrally because the two things are innately different and separate in my mind. 

 

23 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

I believe there is a shared ground that DE is capable of hitting that would make you and I both happy. 

 

Not necessarily. Some Warframe fans preferences actively clash with each other. Some people play this game for the loot and farm, some for the movement tech and weapons, some for the sci fi setting and plot, some for the characters, some for the collecting, well, also, more likely, is that many play for a combination of some of the aforementioned and more, just that overlap will vary and differ. Some people want more challenge, which can come at the cost of power fantasy, many want DE to rework and focus on what we have and not new stuff, some prefer getting new stuff, so even of there is some overlap, clashes will occur. 

Then you add in expectations too. If you expect more from anything and it doesn't deliver, its natural that disappointment may set in. Which is fair, just not always the case for everyone because of that difference in expectations. Like I don't really need for DE to try make me unhappy, if I wasn't adequately happy with the content, I would take a break, but for others they may not want to, or view that as a negative and thats fair too. 

 

23 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

This is not a discussion I want to have. 

 

We do not have to dwell on it, it was mostly brought up because of your usage of it. I don't use such terms often, unless we are in a situation where both people are already sharing general common ground with terminology, and where all participants have a general similar intent, as far as acknowledging potential biases and putting term aside. This is how you can often distinguish people who want to use facts for the same goal, versus facts for rhetorical reasons to sound more convincing. With the latter you don't really have to use the term facts, just establishing a decently objectively minded criteria is solid enough, if one wishes to make an argument beyond just their opinion. Such arguments usually come from a place of transparency and openness though rather than attempting to reenforce ones own established belief. 

Which may be worth noting, because earlier you concluded that I had obviously reached my own conclusions?" Probably, and correct me if I am wrong, you may encounter people who tend to be that way a lot, and don't offer that they are willing to take on new info, and that they may change their mind, and acknowledge they may be wrong? Since a lot of people online, often just have a belief and defend it tirelessly? 

 

23 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

You mentioned you enjoy this mode for the decrees.  Well the decrees aren't really something I care about in that sense.  Without them, it would be a lot harder to kill with my amp, but it would also be harder on the community who is mostly reliant on fodder instead of their amp.  I don't like to grind just for grind, just for mechanics and I don't like to just do things for reward (or I'd play arb defense).  I'm sure the decrees make certain weapons fun, but they don't allow you to solo high level excavation or defense.  You don't earn decrees fast enough.  You're at the cap after 17 rounds, which is 34 decrees and if half are rares,  you have 42, and still a good 70 left to acquire.  It's not really optimal to reroll and you can burn those fast.  So I could have fun with whatever weapon or things you're having fun with, but not alone at enemy lvl 1392+ excavation, where they can easily oneshot.  In any random pub group, most do not go very many rounds, so you aren't going to have more than 5 or 10 decrees in an avg run, unless you play solo, use recruit, or have a good group of friends, so they are often not a factor in many of these runs that are not going for a while.

 

Which is totally fair and valid, but also plays a role in perceptions of why/how people may enjoy this update on the whole. I don't really like super competitive PVP games. I have played a few, and enjoyed a few, but eh. Now if we start talking about games like Fortnite or Overwatch or Apex, regardless of my personal stance, I do know that many, many, many people enjoy PVP games. I can acknowledge I may potentially be in a minority when it comes to peoples attitudes over PVP, and thats okay by me. There are still a lot of games that aren't PVP based. 

I am probably in the minority of players in Warframe that prioritises testing over taking a powerful or strong weapon into gameplay. Well, can depend on the context, like if I know i may have to carry a game. I am not taking the Stug to Tridolons when helping out new players. So with say the Circuit, even though its not an issue for me, I imagine they would want decent good rewards as an incentive. Which we spoke of earlier when discussing what happens after people have Incarnons. 

My main point though, is if we focus too exclusively on our personal preferences, habits etc we can narrow our own views about other peoples experiences. 

What do you mean by high level Defence and Excavation? Post round 10 or prior to round 10? I'm going to say this is a variable that depends on players. I don't mean this as an elitist argument ether, my past self would struggle with basic Steel Path with my best load outs, current self finds it easy with a variety of mediocre load outs. Can I consistently solo past round 10 with RNG choices? No, but I also don't enjoy just playing the game for excessively long, even if I have the capability, so unless I had a good group that were friendly, and we wanted to try push our limits, I would often leave around round 8/9 regardless. So more variables around how different players prioritise and experience the game. 

Its also fine if you don't enjoy the weapon I was using, just because you don't like the weapon or the affect a Decree has on it. A lot of people like the Bramma for example. I wasn't really a big fan, I preferred weapons like the Daikyu. I know I am in a minority in that sense (at least as far as usage numbers, which don't necessarily distinguish using from enjoying, since you could argue some players prioritise effectiveness over personal enjoyment when it comes to weapons.)

 

23 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

I actually wanted to give DE money for that update,

 

Can you remember how negative those first few days and weeks were in the Forums though? I could still probably find a lot of the "worst update ever" and "I quit" threads. 

Oh and also to clarify, I am reading all of your points, i just do not feel the need to address every point. I either agree generally, or see nothing disagreeable or worth having to address. Since these are longer replies, should save time. 

 

23 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

When playing this mode, it feels like a job to me, and then I stopped and thought, do I even care about these incarnons?  I determined that I didn't, and it just felt so much better, realizing that I don't actually have to farm these.  I don't actually have to play this mode.  It's all of these things together that kind of suck the fun out of the mode for me.  And I don't want to support things like this.  My thought process is, man, is DE hurting that bad for money?  I'd almost rather pay a sub, if it meant to not have modes like the circuit, or if it meant they could hire a team that could fix bugs, or just the very basic matchmaking bugs that are breaking the experience.  Their strengths are obviously not fixing bugs, but creating new frames. 

 

Thats a pretty negative reaction, and again, totally valid and fair. I would hate playing Warframe and having it feel like a job. Ironically, if they went to a sub system, I would probably dislike that and think it was more like a job to me. Since then the expectation would be that I would be obligated to play even If I didn't enjoy something but was locked into it. 

That also being said, Circuit doesn't feel like a job to as current. I find it decently pleasant. I just imagine that you and I have very different play style preferences and priorities though. I don't imagine mine are the majority, but I am not sure yours may be either (I have limited info on that, but mostly based on the degree/intensity of your dislike). Since the majority preferences can be pretty nebulous and hard to pin down, and is probably more accurate to say, there can be some common consensus that overlaps broadly. Since Warframe, can actually be quite appealing to a whole different type of people for different reasons, which can create certain complications.  

 

23 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

These issues are what I'm interested in, not the definition of facts, or arguing about lack of effort, or misapplying generalizations.  So I hope we can focus on the real issues, that will bring players like you to me in the middle ground where we both think the update is awesome.  That is the goal and challenge DE faces.  I realize I misspoke with some language, and said somethings that maybe weren't 100% factual and did some generalizing, but its all with a goal in mind to improve the circuit where it appeals to that diverse group of players DE is trying to make it appeal to.

 

All good! Facts and language are important to me for context and making communication more effortless and enjoyable with other people. When I say something along the lines of "I think this proposition/claim has more potential weight behind it, because of factors A, B, C, and some historic examples of similar behaviours, and patterning, but this is limited info at present, may be inaccurate or flawed" thats not me saying "Oh, I personally really like this update, I found some people agreed and therefore I have a correct conclusion that can't ever be questioned or disagreed with". How I approach people and communicate with them fairly is way more important to me, than my views on Warframe. 

I can find a lot of people who have different takes (including Warframe), and such takes will often be valid and fair to that players expression. I am not really here to change peoples minds or argue their preferences though. Even if my own experiences are different. I am not against improving things, but I am weary of many Warframe players ideas about what the community wants. Like we often get threads in General, there was this one user who insisted that DE needs to make more Kavat armours otherwise they would fail... That example, I am super skeptical towards. Another thread a bit more reasonable, wanted bosses to guarantee drop different Warframe parts each time.. (so no boss would be needed to be fought a max of 4 times)... Uh interesting, but probably not something DE would do. Might be something player base might like, for convenience, but ehh, FTP model... almost too convenient. Also sometimes those ideas for improvement clash (see a subscription model). 

Hey I appreciate your reply and thoughts. Sorry my reply is late. All the best! 

[Lord_Drod]

5 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

So there is a lot that could shift my perspective and change my mind.

I'm a little more negative on new things because I hate change in general, so just take whatever I say with a grain of salt.  I definitely think I'm in the minority.  It seems like a lot of newer players are getting into it before they are ready because of the regular circuit.  Since there's two circuits, they basically have to keep the same game types and it has to be like beginner/casual friendly, hence the game types.   Without the time limit, there's less incentive to complete it.  I just find it kind of a slog to get through tier 10 on a regular basis right now.  The archon/kahl missions are not too involving, but weekly stuff starts to add up.

 

5 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

What do you mean by high level Defence and Excavation?

Basically at round 10 and beyond, or whatever enemy lvl 1392 it starts to get a little serious, where with no CC they can oneshot the excavators and since the other missions fly by, you'll find yourself in this position a lot.  Defense is like the road block in the mission and just being able to do 3 separate rounds of defense and you're at or very near the cap.  So it comes up a lot more frequently than other modes.  I'm just kind of burned out on those modes in there in general, minus flood because its newer, but its not that special and they butchered it as well. 

It's not like I'm some elite level cap runner(I mostly don't have time for that), but I found it was pretty easy to get there, if I just had a frame that can CC a bit.  And since I really just wanted to get it done as quickly as possible, I wasn't interested as much in just trying out different combos of decrees - although I would definitely enjoy how different weapons perform with a lot of decrees.  I think that's pretty interesting, but it just isn't as interesting as it could be, because of the game modes being offered kind of waste that potential.  I'm with you on the bramma - I have hardly any kills with that weapon.  I can't use a weapon with 5 ammo. 

I usually try and find the value in lower tiered weapons than meta and max them out to be on par with top weapons.  It's not really fun investing in weapons like scoliac or catchmoon, only to see them nerfed to completely unuseable in the name of balance.  Even Kuva Nukor, which most used for damage, I just used for priming and then they nerfed the chaining part away instead of the damage.  Maybe if they actually knew the meaning of "balance", but scoliac is a sock now.  I actually don't really melee that much because its too physically demanding in SP.  I just can't tap F like that continuously and I'm glad they buffed guns, so I could stop with that.  The melee changes were overall good because I got into a lot of the other stances I was missing out on, just spinning around.  Another update, I was clearly negative on at first haha.  

 

5 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Not necessarily. Some Warframe fans preferences actively clash with each other.

This is true, but I still think most could agree on a tile if it was good enough.  Even so, the undercroft is better than many defense tiles, but still feels kinda empty to me.  I don't really get that "this place is amazing" vibe.  It's just alright, and serving a purpose kind of thing.  I think to get people to feel like its amazing, you need a lot of the same features to get there.  The divide is more along trying to balance for the different types of players.  Like some are elite level cappers, that want arb insta death, and others would hate that, and everything in between.

 

5 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Can you remember how negative those first few days and weeks were in the Forums though?

I actually had taken a year off or so from Warframe and hadn't even played the New War then.  I think it came out in July or June and I picked it back up in August.  Actually, I think the Zariman update and the wanting to play the New War brought me back, but I was not following too closely on the forums around release.  I remember playing it and was blown away and thought it was amazing - Zariman, and I googled and found some negative posts on reddit and was perplexed.

Oh and yes, I agree on the pay to play model.  I was just wondering what DE could do with a bigger payroll.  It's hard to do things that feel like work/chores.  Nightwave is also in that category for me.  I have mostly ignored NW ever since release, unless I want a cosmetic or exclusive thing that I can only purchase that week.  I end up getting to 30(and that's all I'm interested in) without looking at it mostly, then spend it all on nitain.  I see streamer guys that are elite players that log in and cross these things off weekly like they need quests to do or something.  I can't relate to that(perhaps its for views, but I don't think so).  So that kinda ties into the circuit where, for some reason, a large % of the base needs to be told what to do or they lose interest.  I have 4k hrs in game and have never run out of things to do, but I have run out of time.  There's plenty of builds I don't have etc, plenty of rivens and frames I could learn.  I'm sure DE will keep updating Duviri and the circuit for a while.

No worries on reply time.  Sometimes, I have to do things in real life also.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

4 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

I'm a little more negative on new things because I hate change in general, so just take whatever I say with a grain of salt.  I definitely think I'm in the minority.  It seems like a lot of newer players are getting into it before they are ready because of the regular circuit.  Since there's two circuits, they basically have to keep the same game types and it has to be like beginner/casual friendly, hence the game types.   Without the time limit, there's less incentive to complete it.  I just find it kind of a slog to get through tier 10 on a regular basis right now.  The archon/kahl missions are not too involving, but weekly stuff starts to add up.

 

Thats pretty fair. I am like that with some things too, like whenever G-Mail or Youtube or some other website I use regularly, has a large visual/IU shift change, when I preferred the other style. Though yeah, can also colour expectations too. 

 

4 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

Basically at round 10 and beyond, or whatever enemy lvl 1392 it starts to get a little serious, where with no CC they can oneshot the excavators and since the other missions fly by, you'll find yourself in this position a lot.  Defense is like the road block in the mission and just being able to do 3 separate rounds of defense and you're at or very near the cap.  So it comes up a lot more frequently than other modes.  I'm just kind of burned out on those modes in there in general, minus flood because its newer, but its not that special and they butchered it as well. 

 

Noted. I rarely go past round 10 solo, unless I am having a lot of fun with an unusual build. I also tend to get decent luck with Circuit too, my last five picks for some of my longer runs, were Mesa, Saryn, Citrine, Vauban, Saryn. Warframes, I can't remember my guns as well, but Stahlta, Basmu, Corinth P, Spectra Vandal were some. Basically I had adequate tools for either clearing enemies fast or CC. 

Oh and I rarely go past round 10 for two reasons, I don't like super long missions, generally. I have found that round 9 is the sweet spot for efficiency. So if I only cared about the rewards, I would only aim to do 3 games, each to round 9, should unlock all the rewards. So if someone wasn't enjoying themselves, I probably wouldn't recommend going past round 10.

 

4 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

It's not like I'm some elite level cap runner(I mostly don't have time for that), but I found it was pretty easy to get there,

 

Yeah Cascade and Circuit have been a nice small blessing for people who might occasionally like to do some level cap gameplay, but don't have 2 plus hours to get their in Disruption or Survival lol. Oh and speaking of the Kuva Nukor, if you like the Ocucor, its augment sounds pretty good, if you are looking for another beam primer.

 

4 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

I actually had taken a year off or so from Warframe and hadn't even played the New War then.  I think it came out in July or June and I picked it back up in August.  Actually, I think the Zariman update and the wanting to play the New War brought me back, but I was not following too closely on the forums around release.  I remember playing it and was blown away and thought it was amazing - Zariman, and I googled and found some negative posts on reddit and was perplexed.

 

It was pretty negative at first. Granted, some of it was likely just frustration from people, because there were a lot of progress ruining bugs. As in you play for an hour to get the new parts, you finally get one, go to extract but can't. Then you lose that part. Then you play a few hours and can't get that part again, or you do eventually, but then lose progress again. Then you find out one of the Gyre parts you are trying to go for has a bugged drop table... People were also really annoyed by certain design issues, like Mobile Defence failing? Why? Well everyone was out looking for Plumes and one guy started an Angel fight on the other side from the objective, so only one guy was actually doing the mission objective... Some people didn't like Angels, they were too hard or forced you to have to play Operator... A lot of people hated the new Thrax. 

I can always empathise with such complaints and criticisms, just personally I enjoyed that we got some new game modes. I was also doing a lot of the missions solo, because I really liked the new visual aesthetics of the Zariman tileset, and I like to look around and notice small details, secret areas, enjoy the design of the lay outs (lots of vertical areas, interesting curved architecture, which is interesting distinction from Corpus/Grineer style architecture. I liked the Void Angels aesthetics, sound design, and liked fighting them. Which also meant I could progress quite fast, as being able to fight Void Angels efficiently meant getting Pinions... Gyre also reminded me a bit of how I play Mag, which for me is a positive, so I enjoyed playing the newest Warframe. I really liked Cascade and Void Flood. Void Armageddon a bit less so, but I didn't find it bad or anything. I could do it enough for the rewards or for NW etc So basically, I felt like the minority in those first few days, at least on Forums and Reddit. Oh, the biggest thing I was bothered by, apart from bugs/losing progress (I think I lost two hours progress in the first three days of playing) was actually Gyre's sig weapon the Alternox just feeling... very underwhelming. Had a cool visual style, a really cool and unique reload animation, but just seemed very lacking in terms of DPS. Even when using with Gyre let alone other Warframes without the same synergy. 

Anyway, I do know that its a general trend that Forums can be a bit more negative initially. Its a general human nature thing that is fun and interesting to discuss, but with time more neutral and positive sentiment started to appear more and more. Doesn't mean the negativity is invalid, just that overall, may not necessarily be representative of all players. Let alone those in a Forum. I even remember a few weeks/months later a few surveys with decent participation and polls, where Zariman was viewed as quite positive overall. Which also doesn't mean thats reflective either... Could be survivor bias at play too. Maybe all the people that hated Zariman, did quit, so a few weeks later, only those that enjoyed it, were invested enough to participate in a survey or poll... So you have to account for that too, but with enough consideration, you can usually take into account relevant factors to make some generally decent assertions/observations pending new info. 

 

5 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

Oh and yes, I agree on the pay to play model.  I was just wondering what DE could do with a bigger payroll.  It's hard to do things that feel like work/chores.  Nightwave is also in that category for me.  I have mostly ignored NW ever since release, unless I want a cosmetic or exclusive thing that I can only purchase that week.  I end up getting to 30(and that's all I'm interested in) without looking at it mostly, then spend it all on nitain.  I see streamer guys that are elite players that log in and cross these things off weekly like they need quests to do or something.  I can't relate to that(perhaps its for views, but I don't think so).  So that kinda ties into the circuit where, for some reason, a large % of the base needs to be told what to do or they lose interest.  I have 4k hrs in game and have never run out of things to do, but I have run out of time.  There's plenty of builds I don't have etc, plenty of rivens and frames I could learn.  I'm sure DE will keep updating Duviri and the circuit for a while.

No worries on reply time.  Sometimes, I have to do things in real life also.

 

That makes sense, i can see that. 

Not as an argument or disagreement, but just to illustrate another perspective, if you would like the insight. I don't feel as negatively on Nightwave (well, as a concept I am a bit critical, because I don't like time gated content too much, because I do think it can breed feelings of commitment and expedite FOMO, which I view as a negative), but just for myself personally, I don't mind, because often Nightwave just overlaps with what I would normally do. Like kill a bunch of Steel Path enemies? I mean sure, I do that anyway. Also since there is so much in Warframe, I occasionally like doing, but also don't have the time for, I can also multi task. Like I enjoy fighting Profit Taker now and then, doing a Tridolon as well, I like seeing my times improve with age. Sometimes I'll just randomly do a few here and there, but its not something I enjoy like... doing every day or every week. So if it pops up in Nightwave, its not a big deal either. Its a bit like adding a small incentive for something I might have wanted to do anyway. If there is anything there I don't want to do, I just don't do it. I usually make more than enough progress just being selective. 

So I don't necessarily need to be told what to do, I am already always picking my own stuff to do, just often it overlaps with what I might want to do. Or there is an incentive that enables doing something else I might want to do. Like I burn through a lot of Catalysts, because I like testing a lot of different weapons, so any mission/system that offers a Catalyst as a reward, I'd probably be keen to do, unless it was like... Grendel style missions. Thats just me though, since I totally get that there are people like you, and many others with different perspectives and preferences. I know some people who hate Eidolons and Profit Taker, so those are big roadblocks. They hate they can't get some of the Arcanes they need, so they want alternatives, and they hate there is a pressure to do that content or else pay a lot of Plat for them, and I know there are a lot of Warframe players who dislike content that makes them feel like they are working or as if its a chore. I have just never felt that way myself, personally. Game has always just felt like a game. I acknowledge I may be lucky or fortunate in that sense though. 

Cheers! Ah yeah, real life, the one true enemy of games! Take care! 

[Lord_Drod]

On 2023-06-06 at 11:37 PM, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

People were also really annoyed by certain design issues, like Mobile Defence failing

I remember this and thrax guys would just launch onto the console and oneshot it.  I was surprised and wasn't paying attention, but once you know to look for it, its okay.  I also thought the thrax guys were pretty beefy, before getting incarnons and not stripping them, they were a force.  Like all things in warframe, you quickly adapt and can oneshot them.  I see they are still an annoyance in the circuit!  I actually really like the kuva tarkorian guys that would knock you out of your frame.  I'd love to see those guys elsewhere, basically like Grineer nullifier. 

Zariman was really fun to explore.  I liked all the hidden passageways that were right off and interconnected to the main pathways.  It was just very well done.  I really need to play there more, if there were some other game modes and I had navigation there.  So many rooms in there are fun.  Every mission type would be good there and I'd love to see more mission types available there.  I guess that's what I consider a good tile.  I mainly just do exterms for the pinions now to get kuva since essence is capped now, but I'm pretty lazy about keeping those up.

I'm pretty similar to how you play NW.  If it's convenient, I might do something.  It's nice to be able to skip missions.  I got into Warframe a year or so before NW came out, so I had already gotten all the alternate helmets, and weapons.  I thought it would be harder as a newer player to obtain all of those things, since you'd have to do a lot more work.  That was a trade-off for convenience of being able to just do those missions when you want.  It would have been cool to see them still keep the alerts for those that wanted them.  It's exciting to see time limited exclusive things in navigation.  Usually the alerts were around a certain time, and you could get an app that told you when they were up and usually lasted for like 2 hrs for those who didn't have time to play.  Anytime you switch to a system like NW or the circuit etc, expect to pay more in grind.

Getting back to the circuit, and after reading some more, it seems like the circuit is system progressing towards a battle pass like system.  You have these shiny rewards, limited time, play a week, and weaker rewards for going past that since the goal is to keep you playing weekly.  I wouldn't really want to see this integrated everywhere, where anytime there is a rework for a frame or weapon, instead you receive an adapter and a circuit, to grind for, pay for, and install on your frame.  It does depend on the reward, how and where you're grinding as well.  So I just think that's something to think about.  The game really hasn't ever felt like a chore to me, except with actual to-do lists.  I do enjoy it, many parts of it, and still have plenty to do, but others need that guidance and value different things.  It's hard to please everyone.  I'm not sure anyone enjoyed those Grendel missions! haha

Sorry for the late response, but I guess we killed this thread.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

6 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

I remember this and thrax guys would just launch onto the console and oneshot it.  I was surprised and wasn't paying attention, but once you know to look for it, its okay.  I also thought the thrax guys were pretty beefy, before getting incarnons and not stripping them, they were a force.  Like all things in warframe, you quickly adapt and can oneshot them.  I see they are still an annoyance in the circuit!  I actually really like the kuva tarkorian guys that would knock you out of your frame.  I'd love to see those guys elsewhere, basically like Grineer nullifier. 

 

I'll have to be a bit more careful with those guys now, my number one strategy was to use Magus Lockdown, but they have changed that interaction now. Though yeah, I personally like the idea of enemies having a priority order. As far as gameplay variety. Some enemies you just have to prioritise and target focus, you can't just passively slaughter enemies haphazardly, its also why I liked the Eximus rework too, and Nox. Like I totally sympathise with people who don't like such changes, but I like the variety with enemies and how I have to counter play as well. Yeah the Kuva Trokarians are great, I like them as well. 

 

6 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

Zariman was really fun to explore.  I liked all the hidden passageways that were right off and interconnected to the main pathways.  It was just very well done.  I really need to play there more, if there were some other game modes and I had navigation there.  So many rooms in there are fun.  Every mission type would be good there and I'd love to see more mission types available there.  I guess that's what I consider a good tile.  I mainly just do exterms for the pinions now to get kuva since essence is capped now, but I'm pretty lazy about keeping those up.

 

Yeah it has a great atmosphere. Its one of my favourite testing grounds for experimenting with new weapons or new configs. I like its ambience. I feel like it has one of the better ratios of enemy density on maps as well. I often just play solo games there, so I can change my pace up, plus being able to pause can be nice. Actually at the moment? One of my biggest wishes for the game, is to add Relic Cracking to the Zariman missions. The endless modes and Extermination. I really like the NPCs there too. 

 

6 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

I'm pretty similar to how you play NW.  If it's convenient, I might do something.  It's nice to be able to skip missions.  I got into Warframe a year or so before NW came out, so I had already gotten all the alternate helmets, and weapons.  I thought it would be harder as a newer player to obtain all of those things, since you'd have to do a lot more work.  That was a trade-off for convenience of being able to just do those missions when you want.  It would have been cool to see them still keep the alerts for those that wanted them.  It's exciting to see time limited exclusive things in navigation.  Usually the alerts were around a certain time, and you could get an app that told you when they were up and usually lasted for like 2 hrs for those who didn't have time to play.  Anytime you switch to a system like NW or the circuit etc, expect to pay more in grind.

Getting back to the circuit, and after reading some more, it seems like the circuit is system progressing towards a battle pass like system.  You have these shiny rewards, limited time, play a week, and weaker rewards for going past that since the goal is to keep you playing weekly.  I wouldn't really want to see this integrated everywhere, where anytime there is a rework for a frame or weapon, instead you receive an adapter and a circuit, to grind for, pay for, and install on your frame.  It does depend on the reward, how and where you're grinding as well.  So I just think that's something to think about.  The game really hasn't ever felt like a chore to me, except with actual to-do lists.  I do enjoy it, many parts of it, and still have plenty to do, but others need that guidance and value different things.  It's hard to please everyone.  I'm not sure anyone enjoyed those Grendel missions! haha

Sorry for the late response, but I guess we killed this thread.

 

All good, I didn't have too much to add. To be fair, I did enjoy the Grendel missions a little bit the third time i had to do them, because I did it with a friend, and found it fun how much they had to suffer, but I also got creative with my build to put together a Hildryn build that used Helminth and her Augments (which can work in those missions for some reason). I wonder if Laetum and Phenmor would also be good in those modes as well?

Oh and no worries, hah, well, sometimes I think many threads thrive off conflict and disagreement. If you have two people just neutrally talking about the game, it can yeah, sometimes kill the thread. Not the worst way to kill a thread though. 

[Lord_Drod]

5 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 Actually at the moment? One of my biggest wishes for the game, is to add Relic Cracking to the Zariman missions. The endless modes and Extermination. I really like the NPCs there too. 

Yes! I totally want this.  It's fine for endless or exterm, interception, disruption, captures, anything really.  Cascade/flood relic cracking would be cool too.  It seems like a waste to leave it isolated there. 

Maybe that's why we got something like the circuit this time.  I don't see why they couldn't integrate it better into the game.

Rolling guard definitely helps with the legatus thrax, if I remember to do it.  They go down easy to many things after stripping, so dodging or clearing those first mag procs helps.  Mag procs are pretty annoying.  I can relate to the community there.  It can be an issue using OP too.

[Lord_Drod]

Well I did two circuit runs.  One with Khora and extracted right before level cap defense.  I had some decent gear, but nothing compared to Operator.  It was cool rakta dark dagger was red critting, but I could not defend with that.  So it was fun, more like a gimmick, since I still need my cc or a power aoe weapon.  On my second run, I had nezha roar with my broken simulor build, but I forgot there's no vacuum, so I had to be selective with my shots and hunt for ammo drops on foot.  I also had no CC, and had to extract before defense at  8.3k.

For some reason, I find the progress bar incredibly hard to read.  It's showing tier 10 on the right, but I figured that's what I was progressing towards, not what I'm on and I can barely even see where the meter actually is.  So I end up going halfway to tier 11.  Awful.  Fix this DE - You and I both don't want 1 second spent past rank 10.  I AM NOT ENGAGED! 

So what was fun about it?  It was fun gambling on sim with some really good decrees to play defense at enemy level 2500, and I didn't even have nezha's 4.  I actually thought it was tough at enemy level 468 with that setup, so I don't know why I continued.  And there is no way I could have done that with any melee or half the crappy fodder you get.  I needed my broken gun, with the right decrees and had to really focus to get through that. 

Excavation at 6.7k with that was hard too, but it's passable, especially with spawns still slow in that mode on some versions of the tile and multiple excavators to distract them.  If any guy has Los on the excavator at that level, its done.  You need some CC for defense/excavation and if you get it, you basically go to the cap.  There's too much variance in decrees and they still aren't powerful enough to allow you to solo defense without CC with the huge lot of mid tier and lower tiered weapons that you normally get.  That's such a high amount of weekly grinding, so its not ideal to just do short runs for me.  I'll maybe do a few weapons that are really strong when its convenient.  OP is still better than 99% of the weapons.

How is no vacuum a thing?  I had a primed ammo mutation in my loadout, but just forgot to select it cuz you know in SP you don't need it, unless you're not running vacuum.  Lol and to all the people who say your build is bad if you have energy problems, when really you just weren't aware you have to walk over every piece of energy.  I did not have energy problems, but I could see a lack of vacuum being an issue for some.  I don't see what's fun about that.

Also, back to the tile.  When you start stacking decrees, and already have a super fast frame(that isn't titania), its not ideal to be playing defense in the undercroft, because you will slide 100m and completely all over the map and past the enemies and there's tons of gaps, so you have to really watch your speed or you are quickly 200m away from the defense target.  The movement decree is insane, but horrible on a small map, with lots of drop offs and disconnect.  It would be more enjoyable with a live guy I could res and wouldn't have to walk on eggshells. 

This would definitely be more enjoyable to play on Zariman for sure imo (make it happen DE), but I'd really appreciate some new modes or at least some changes to excavation/defense.  It's hilarious when they hit it with 1 bullet as its going up, and you get 1 cryo.

I think its progress.  The update is good overall, but there's a lot of issues with it and certainly things DE could have done better that has been mentioned a bunch everywhere, that just makes you feel happier, instead of annoyed etc.  And then I'm still not a fan of the weekly system.