Atmo Systems drop rate bug

[YYdShee]

Atmo Systems have an unusual drop rate, I've done Profit-Taker - Phase 2 over 30 times with the goal of getting Atmo Systems, however, I've repeatedly gotten every other reward from this quest except no Atmo Systems, which is obviously a drop There is a problem with the mechanism, please fix it immediately. Furthermore, this material has WASTED a lot of my time, I have reason to ask you to send me an apology and send me compensation by email in the game.

[Nekomian]

I'm not sure if this is a weird troll attempt or not, but while it's unlikely there's still a 5% chance after 30 runs that you don't have the Atmo Systems from Profit-Taker Bounty Phase 2 (10% chance per run). Randomness is just that - random. There's no guarantees for the reward here.

Update: Ran 15 runs in about 35 mins or so and got it to drop, so I can confirm it does drop Atmo Systems.

In the event that you're just incredibly unlucky, Little Duck sells them for 2,500 Vox Solaris standing as well.

You've already had someone point this out in a prior post too with the same response towards these drop rates, so I'm unsure why you're demanding some formal apology and compensation when the game is working as intended.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Naroxas44
tested some runs

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

5 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

I'm not sure if this is a weird troll attempt or not, but while it's unlikely there's still a 5% chance after 30 runs that you don't have the Atmo Systems from Profit-Taker Bounty Phase 2 (10% chance per run). Randomness is just that - random. There's no guarantees for the reward here.

Update: Ran 15 runs in about 35 mins or so and got it to drop, so I can confirm it does drop Atmo Systems.

In the event that you're just incredibly unlucky, Little Duck sells them for 2,500 Vox Solaris standing as well.

You've already had someone point this out in a prior post too with the same response towards these drop rates, so I'm unsure why you're demanding some formal apology and compensation when the game is working as intended.

You've quoted me, and I of course stand by my original statement, but I stand by the whole thing.  That includes the part where I bad mouth the horrendous RNG that creates the illusion of a bug.  Is it working as intended?  Absolutely.  Is the intention completely heinous and predatory?  Also yes.

I ran PT bounty 2 for systems so many times before they dropped that I could speed run it, and be back in the back room standing at the bounty table (on an xbox one, with long load times.) before they had introduced all the directors you're supposed to kill.  They keep talking until you start another dialogue up, so I could literally finish the bounty and be back inside at the table to take another bounty before they had even finished telling me who the targets were.  My best time was right at 2 minutes on the game clock, and times were consistent.  I ran for hours (I want to say it was six) before they dropped, which put me well outside the "expected" range and into "statistical anomaly" territory.  I've seen player in game and here with similar stories.

I bring this up because if RNG screws enough people bad enough that it gives the appearance of a bug, it might be working as intended, but it also probably needs to be reviewed, and it has been like this and unreviewed for years.  Despite my point still standing about the statistics, you probably picked the worst person to tag because this farm is one of the things that pretty much sealed the deal on me having zero faith in DE.

[Markov]

Unfavourable RNG isn't a bug. When I ran PT phase 2 for Atmo Systems drops to rank up Vox Solaris (roughly 2.5 years ago), it took ~60-70 runs to get the two drops I needed (Update 31 actually reduced the number of Atmo Systems needed from 10 to 5, for what it's worth). It would of course have been possible to get them in two runs, but such is RNG.

7 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

In the event that you're just incredibly unlucky, Little Duck sells them for 2,500 Vox Solaris standing as well.

These are only available once you rank Vox Solaris to 3 (Hand). Before that, the only sources of Atmo Systems are Profit-Taker phase 2 (10%) and Profit-Taker phase 4 (11.43%).
 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

You've quoted me, and I of course stand by my original statement, but I stand by the whole thing.  That includes the part where I bad mouth the horrendous RNG that creates the illusion of a bug.  Is it working as intended?  Absolutely.  Is the intention completely heinous and predatory?  Also yes.

I ran PT bounty 2 for systems so many times before they dropped that I could speed run it, and be back in the back room standing at the bounty table (on an xbox one, with long load times.) before they had introduced all the directors you're supposed to kill.  They keep talking until you start another dialogue up, so I could literally finish the bounty and be back inside at the table to take another bounty before they had even finished telling me who the targets were.  My best time was right at 2 minutes on the game clock, and times were consistent.  I ran for hours (I want to say it was six) before they dropped, which put me well outside the "expected" range and into "statistical anomaly" territory.  I've seen player in game and here with similar stories.

I bring this up because if RNG screws enough people bad enough that it gives the appearance of a bug, it might be working as intended, but it also probably needs to be reviewed, and it has been like this and unreviewed for years.  Despite my point still standing about the statistics, you probably picked the worst person to tag because this farm is one of the things that pretty much sealed the deal on me having zero faith in DE.

There is an inherent selection bias here, though. The people with unfavourable RNG are far more likely to make posts complaining about it than the people with favourable RNG...

[Nekomian]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I bring this up because if RNG screws enough people bad enough that it gives the appearance of a bug, it might be working as intended, but it also probably needs to be reviewed, and it has been like this and unreviewed for years.

I don't disagree with that, especially some of the RNG on mods is horrendously low and needs to be reviewed (especially any mods below 1%). Most are fine, but it's bizarre how rare some are when their actual effects may not even be that good. In this case for atmo systems they could probably increase it a little, but 10% for how quickly the mission goes by isn't all that bad.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

They keep talking until you start another dialogue up, so I could literally finish the bounty and be back inside at the table to take another bounty before they had even finished telling me who the targets were.  My best time was right at 2 minutes on the game clock, and times were consistent.

Regarding this, it's been a hot minute since I've done fortuna content but I did notice this annoyance running them back to back today to test; it like requires the dialogue to complete to progress and just feels padded, though to be fair I could still get through them in about 1m 30s on a fast system (start to extraction, not including loads) so I can see why they probably did this to avoid players finishing the entire bounty in less than a minute.

It does feel a little silly though just waiting inside the building and LD goes "and be quick about it" when I'm like, OK spawn the directors then haha.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

20 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

but 10% for how quickly the mission goes by isn't all that bad.

10% to drop is a 90% failure rate.  With no bad luck protection or pity system of any kind.  Which means, like I pointed out in the original post you quoted, no matter how small the chance might be, you technically never have to get a drop.  It might just roll that 90% every single time and there's very literally nothing you can do about it.  That's the thing about pure RNG.  You make exactly zero progress toward a goal unil the RNG cooperates and you hit the goal.  You are no closer to being done on attempt 4,000 than you are on attempt 2.  It took me over 60 hours of farming Drekkar Butchers under absolutely ideal conditions before my first Condition Overload dropped.  It was past the "nearly guaranteed" mark when I was farming PT bounty 2 for systems.  It took so long to get Ordnance Velocity to drop that I ended up just spending that time in trade chat, trawling for someone that wasn't trying to charge me 400p for a mod no one uses, just so I could complete the mod collection.  I have an IRL friend that literally quit forever because the drop rate on Khora had them running SO twice a day, every day for over 2 months without a complete set.

Pure RNG is a cardinal sin in video game development and I do not care what anyone else thinks about that.  I will die on that hill.

 

20 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

just waiting inside the building and LD goes "and be quick about it" when I'm like, OK spawn the directors then haha.

About half the time I could have the crosshairs already lined up where the director's head would be on the first kill.  I actually completed the strain mod set from running this so many times.  

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

22 hours ago, Markov said:

There is an inherent selection bias here, though. The people with unfavourable RNG are far more likely to make posts complaining about it than the people with favourable RNG...

Which is absolutely idiotic design.  You're literally stating a huge part of the problem with pure RNG systems and acting like it's some defense.  The fact that some people will hit the 90% failure rate every time instead of a 10% success chance, and will get screwed over for absolutely no reason but others will get what they want first shot is complete trash.  You have someone putting in an order of magnitude more effort for the same reward someone else got basically for free.  What sense does that make to any reasonable, rational person?

[Nekomian]

45 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Pure RNG is a cardinal sin in video game development and I do not care what anyone else thinks about that.  I will die on that hill.

That's valid, I do wish this game had a "pity system" of sorts to handle terrible RNG. To be fair, the likelihood of someone having that horrible luck for higher probabilities is very very small though, but you're right that it's still possible and does not feel fair when things like running a mission 50 times and not getting an item occur. It doesn't feel like your time is being respected and starts to feel like a chore or job sometimes more than a game for some people, so I completely understand that sentiment.

I will say, I like what they're doing with later content now, where vendors sell the items and you can just buy them. That way it takes everyone mostly equal amounts of time to max things like arcane blessing, unless you want to pay for a booster to decrease the time it takes for resources. I feel like that's a lot more of a healthy way to approach items rather than on the whims of RNG, so you can still have stuff have drop rates but also give "guaranteed" availability through other resources or vendors in the event your luck is just really bad. It gives a clear path to obtaining things and interacting with content, i.e. "I'll have this many lua thrax plasm to get these items after X amount of runs".

Edited June 4, 2023 by Naroxas44
additional info

[Markov]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Which is absolutely idiotic design.  You're literally stating a huge part of the problem with pure RNG systems and acting like it's some defense.  The fact that some people will hit the 90% failure rate every time instead of a 10% success chance, and will get screwed over for absolutely no reason but others will get what they want first shot is complete trash.  You have someone putting in an order of magnitude more effort for the same reward someone else got basically for free.  What sense does that make to any reasonable, rational person?

So, you are unhappy with the game design (purely random drops, independent of each other). This is not a BUG. You are posting in the BUG REPORTS forum.

Try the "Feedback" forum instead?

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

16 hours ago, Markov said:

So, you are unhappy with the game design (purely random drops, independent of each other). This is not a BUG. You are posting in the BUG REPORTS forum.

Try the "Feedback" forum instead?

Does it look like I'm the OP to you?