how are people completing rank 10 steel path in less then 4 hours?

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

60-75 minutes per run.
4 runs in total.
 

That's literally how I've been doin it. 

just jump in for about an hour or so. It would be a lot better if DE fixed whatever issue causes a matchmaking failure while you load in.

I routinely load in only to see the dialogue box telling me I have failed to join again. Never happens when I'm the host though.  Which usually means my squad is stuck tied to my Xbone one.  For which I am very sorry. 

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I'm going to just repeat myself.

I will as well. You can participate in the gamemode with no builds, no weapons, nothing. You can even participate reasonably well with the default builds in SP, but it's going to be pain, because you are not supposed to be there with those builds.

To unlock steel path currently, you must have ale the quests done, be able to kill necramechs to build yourself one, have own railjack, complete New war, Zariman, etc.

At that point I think it's pretty reasonable to ask the player to put a reactor into their warframes and put at least some mods into it.

That's ALL you need to do to success in this. The bar is VERY low. 

If you want to do it efficiently EVERY time you enter, aquire better arsenal.
If not, wait till the update releases and every time you see bad gear, run SP solo duviri or even public Lone story. 

If none of this seems like a good option to you, then it's a YOU problem.

Edited June 5 by Cerikus

[cute_moth.npc]

13 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

You can even participate reasonably well with the default builds in SP, but it's going to be pain, because you are not supposed to be there with those builds.

Then why are they being offered in steel path? Why didn't the developers actually bother to mod the weapons properly to give players a realistic preview of each one? I've seen weapons like Sonicor that have literally all impact mods, galvanized shot and a magazine mod on them. No effort was made to ensure that they would be enjoyable in that mode, so why are they there?

14 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

At that point I think it's pretty reasonable to ask the player to put a reactor into their warframes and put at least some mods into it

The 15 Warframes I kept and didn't sell are all fully forma'ed, sharded, arcaned and finished. Aside from that, the others were thrown in the trash and I don't intend to spend any platinum on finishing things I don't enjoy?

15 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

If you want to do it efficiently EVERY time you enter, aquire better arsenal

Right.. Hundreds.. Hundreds. Of weapons? When several hundred are known junk, just for one mode? 

16 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

If none of this seems like a good option to you, then it's a YOU problem

You're right, it's a me problem that I have a problem with the abysmal design and lack of respect for the player's time that this game mode represents ^^;

[Grommile]

7 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Yeah, there are a lots of people in this game who (for some reason) play it like you do.

Because it's fun.

7 hours ago, Cerikus said:

And btw, it was revealed last Tennocon that Duviri is roguelite

Unfortunately, it turned out to be a scuffed roguelite, because they refuse to do the balance work needed to make a good one.

[-AncientWarrior-]

5 hours ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

4 runs of like 12-15 waves can be done in roughly 60-75mins per run and its enough to hit 10

yep this, we do 4 cruisy runs and we are finished for the week all things going well.. then 30 mins Archon hunt and no reason left to play WF until next week..

[CosmicHermitCrab]

I think folks are forgetting that there are a bunch of other interesting game modes to do daily/weekly, not just NightWaves, Archon Hunts, Circuits, Sorties, etc. However, I guess some folks want more timegated content in TimeGate-Frame. Warframe has many layers of content already and if we keep tolerating 3-4 hour grindable weekly content, it'll add up to quite a bit after a while, just saying. Might be just 3-4 hours now, but imagine a few more added "copies" of current Circuit Modes...

Some folks complained about Mirror Defense in this similar regard, in the past too.

And then we veterans advise completely new players to try Warframe and they asked, "Why does it have so much time-gated content, you enjoyed this?" 🤯

Feelsbadman... 😭

Edited June 6 by CosmicHermitCrab

[Cerikus]

2 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

abysmal design and lack of respect for the player's time that this game mode represents

That's where you are completely wrong and why I see no point in responding to anything else.

I've put hundreds of hours into making good builds for many items. I am rewarded for my time.

Ÿou didn't put hundreds of hours into making good builds...

It's a great end game design that rewards dedicated players and respects their time, while attempting to encourage players like you to try other things.

1 hour ago, Grommile said:

Because it's fun.

As I said: Play the game anyway you like it, but don't expect the devs to design the game around you wanting to play one single loadout every time.

At least try to realize that players like me love the update and DE wanted Duviri to work like that. Adapt or don't.

1 hour ago, Grommile said:

Unfortunately, it turned out to be a scuffed roguelite, because they refuse to do the balance work needed to make a good one.

Yeah... no attempt to help old and weak weapons at all. The totally didn't just buff 30 old weapons. Sure.

Btw. It's not about "balance". Most of the old weapons wouldn't be good even if they had infinity damage. You may notice that all incarnon forms change the weapons into some kind of AOE. It's either actual AOE, or the damage spreads, or the projectile is huge or wide or does something special. It's the only way to compete against other weapons.

If you think weaker weapons can be "balanced" by tweaking numbers and not doing a proper rework of functionality you are delusional. And reworking weapons takes time.

25 minutes ago, CosmicHermitCrab said:

Warframe has many layers of content already and if we keep tolerating 3-4 hour grindable weekly content, it'll add up to quite a bit after a while

Warframe players: *complaining for years that there is no endgame content that can be grinded repeatedly every week*
DE: *adds several systems/gamemodes/grinds that can be grinded repeatedly every week with good evergreen rewards*
Warframe players:

Edited June 6 by Cerikus

[CosmicHermitCrab]

23 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Warframe players: *complaining for years that there is no endgame content that can be grinded repeatedly every week*
DE: *adds several systems/gamemodes/grinds that can be grinded repeatedly every week with good evergreen rewards*
Warframe players:

Exactly, bruh! The community never truly wanted Endgame, they never had. Endgame soonTM!

Edited June 6 by CosmicHermitCrab

[jibbahjabbah]

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

.. and respects their time
 

Wow. I remember that question popping up as a survey in game about a month or so ago "Do you feel as if DE respects the player's time". It was a insta no for me. I mean I didn't even have to think about as it was a conclusion I've drawn just from experiencing the gameplay without any prompts. I knew, at a theoretical level, people would have clicked yes just because of the nature of simpdomhood/fanboyism, but it still didn't prepare me for seeing someone actually saying it, straight faced, seemingly believing it whole-heartedly - leaves me speechless.. metaphorically speaking. 

It's great you love the game, there are certainly aspects of it that I love as well. But letting it completely blind you to the misgivings of the company that developed it, not so great. Really, it's the exact opposite of great. 

I get the feeling this is the hill you're choosing to die on so nothing that doesn't validate what your saying is going to get through, but if Rebecca offers you a glass kool-aid telling you it's for the best, do yourself a favor and don't drink it.  

Edited June 6 by jibbahjabbah

[Grommile]

7 hours ago, Cerikus said:

As I said: Play the game anyway you like it, but don't expect the devs to design the game around you wanting to play one single loadout every time.

DE: wants me to use all the tools in the box

Also DE: makes high-quality multitools easy to get.

[Packetdancer]

On 2023-06-05 at 1:28 AM, Qriist said:

While I definitely want that Navigation update, what I currently do is load into circuit and see what gear I have. If I don't have anything I deem useful I immeditely leave and use THAT gear to do a clamp run in Lone Story. Wastes a couple minutes from time to time but it beats doing an entire "regular" mission with subpar gear and just 1-2 decrees.

Plus by my calculations, we need approximately... *checks notes* ...eleventy-billion pathos clamps for all these Incarnons anyway. So it's kind of a "two birds, one stone" situation.

(More seriously, it's 600 total needed if you're getting every Incarnon adapter. Which sure starts to feel like eleventy-billion after you've done enough of the Duviri Experience or Lone Story. I really enjoy the Circuit's gameplay just, y'know, as gameplay, but geez running the Orowyrm fight over and over and over and over is starting to get a bit tedious.)

[Packetdancer]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

How do you take breaks in circuit?

More seriously? With my usual trio, if someone needs to step away for a moment mid-run to deal with something, they just park themselves off to the side, hop out of their frame and into Operator/Drifter mode and hit the "Toggle Crouch" button ('V" by default) to go into Void mode. Lets you get up and stretch, answer the door, take a phonecall, bio break, whatever.

With a group that's coordinating, you can also hold off on starting the round objective on certain rounds, though it will eventually start on its own.

As a little bit of background, my trio normally splits our run into Sunday and Monday nights, just so it doesn't take up 3-4 hours of the same thing without changing it up. This week, we didn't do our usual Sunday evening run because we were concerned about the Incarnon repeat being a bug and didn't want to risk it. So we blitzed it tonight to get the Incarnons we picked.

But since we were running longer than usual, one of the others needed to step away for 7-ish minutes to deal with something mid-run. So he hopped off to a corner and the other two of us just held off on starting the defense objective, since it happened to be a Defense stage. The Defense objective did eventually start on its own, but it'd taken several minutes, and we were able to hold down the fort just fine until our third was able to make it back to the keys.

I don't know how well that would work in pub Circuit -- I imagine the answer is "probably not well" -- but it is actually possible to take (brief) breaks mid-run if something has come up, and if it's going to be a short interruption, my group tends to prefer having someone do the hop-out-and-wait trick rather than stopping the run early and starting over afterwards. (If it's a long interruption, we do just hop out and wait.)

[Cerikus]

7 hours ago, jibbahjabbah said:

It's great you love the game, there are certainly aspects of it that I love as well. But letting it completely blind you to the misgivings of the company that developed it, not so great.

Well first of all, I was talking about Duviri specifically, not the whole game. Trying to contradict me by saying my comment on a single gamemode is somehow my view on the whole game is simply a logical falacy. But whatever. What I wanna say is this:

The most common human flaw is that people fail to realize that more than one thing can be true at once.

Do I like this game? Yes.
Are there things I consider very bad in this game? Yes.
Did I write many angry rants on this forum? Yes.
Did I write possitive feedback on this forum? Yes.
Did I join people in outrage? Yes.
Did I defend DEs gamedesign, when I felt like players were unreasonable? Yes.

There may be some NPCs who either hate everything or love everything, but I am not. But I want to ask:

Why is your worldview like this? Why do you think, that the reason people have a different opinion somehow must be them being blind? 

Edited June 6 by Cerikus

[cute_moth.npc]

15 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Ÿou didn't put hundreds of hours into making good builds...

It's a great end game design that rewards dedicated players and respects their time, while attempting to encourage players like you to try other things.

Actually, yeah, I did.

I have basically every arcane in game, a completely finished operator, dozens of 6+ forma weapons, Archon shards in every Warframe I own and have spent hundreds of hours building all of it only to have the much requested "end game" try to keep me from using it. Trust me, I fixed that (by selling literally everything else) lol.

Having garbage modded weapons to try on steel path isn't an encouragement, it's a dead weapon slot. 

They didn't even mod them to work properly. Great design.

I just want to be fair that stuff like the faster level scaling, rotation of game modes within one instance and greater enemy variety is actually kind of nice so I'm not entirely negative on this mode, it's just that it's utterly wrecked by the fact that the developers couldn't be bothered to make sure that the random gear system actually made any sense in the context of steel path.

I'd like an actual revision, not a hand waving that previewing gear before entry is good enough. It's frequent that we have game modes that could be substantially improved with some tweaking, but this is brand new, with a long wait, and it's in the same boat.

Threads like this are a testament to the flaws? It's frequently one player group after another dissolving after a round or two, host migrations and bugs, exalted weapons ending up being empty, questionable bonus round rewards like the 5000 credits you can get for doing an hour of this post round 10 and layers of flaws. I'd rather not continue to accept this as a standard of delivery from the company, personally.

 

Edited June 6 by cute_moth.npc

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

7 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

into Operator/Drifter mode and hit the "Toggle Crouch" button ('V" by default) to go into Void mode

Can't stay in void mode unless you hold the controller button down on Xbox. I need duct tape! 😎

[jibbahjabbah]

6 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Well first of all, I was talking about Duviri specifically, not the whole game. Trying to contradict me by saying my comment on a single gamemode is somehow my view on the whole game is simply a logical falacy. But whatever.

 

Quote

I've put hundreds of hours into making good builds for many items. I am rewarded for my time.

You're talking about Duviri only here? All due respect, I've got my doubts.

Quote

The most common human flaw is that people fail to realize that more than one thing can be true at once.

People who struggle to distinguish the subjective from the objective tend to think this. They fail to realize there is only one truth and an infinite different perspectives of that one truth. Good and bad are opinions, not truths. They are imaginary things, not real. Thinking something is good or bad can not be something that is right or wrong.

And you know, it's fair enough. The way our societies/cultures are, it's almost as if people have gone out of their way to make things as confusing as possible. Let me demonstrate the difference for you. 

"I am rewarded for my time" is a subjective statement. Anyone who tries to argue it is just wrong.

"DE respects players' time" is an objective statement. This is debatable since it is stated as being what's true, a thing we can only view from our biased perspectives. This is where we would pit our reasons believing our polarizing statements are the objective truth. 

"DE doesn't respect players' time" that's the objective statement I'm making. Reason being, every system they've put into place from, pretty much, day one is meant to slow a players' progression in order to encourage the spending of plat. 

Is that something you wish to argue? Because nothing you said in your reply to me is arguing that. If so, I seriously hope you have more than that YOU feel that YOUR time is adequately rewarded because that's just going to lead us down a path that will have nothing to do with the topic at hand and I have no interest in that. I really have no interest debating the topic at all as it just seems so painfully obvious to me that I have a hard time imagining someone arguing it in good faith. 

 

As someone who has been compelled to play the role of devil's advocate from a very young age I can tell, you're in too deep. You're desperately grasping at straws to either prove someone wrong or that you are right (depends on how you choose to look at it). You don't even know what you're arguing anymore. I get it. Arguing subjective things presented as objective truths is like smashing your head against a brick wall. It's only a matter of time before you become severely concussed and you past that point some time ago. Walk away. You have nothing to gain here and the longer you stay the worse the brain damage will become. Do yourself, and everyone you're trying to argue with, a favor and just walk away.  

Edited June 6 by jibbahjabbah

[Qriist]

2 hours ago, jibbahjabbah said:

"DE respects players' time" is an objective statement. This is debatable since it is stated as being what's true, a thing we can only view from our biased perspectives. This is where we would pit our reasons believing our polarizing statements are the objective truth. 

"DE doesn't respect players' time" that's the objective statement I'm making. Reason being, every system they've put into place from, pretty much, day one is meant to slow a players' progression in order to encourage the spending of plat. 

These are both subjective statements.

[jibbahjabbah]

59 minutes ago, Qriist said:

These are both subjective statements.

Can you give me an example of an objective statement? 

[VladYvhv]

On 2023-06-04 at 12:27 PM, Cerikus said:

Honest answer: It's a skill issue and a lack of equipment.

To run circuit efficiently, you must do a lot more than 4 rounds, because the points are awarded like this: 

Round 1 - 100
Round 2 - 110
Round 3 - 125
Round 4 - 145
Round 5 and onwards - 170

I am a player who likes to collect things and build things and create builds. I have around 40 loadouts that containt 40 different warframes, 40 different primaries, secondaries and melees. Therefore I have ZERO issues picking gear in Teshin's cave. Anytime I go in I find items that are great enough to get me through a lot of rounds and I can finish tier 10 in like 3-4 hours.

Since warframe is basically a pokemon game - gotta catch 'em all, I am baffled that people decide to dig themselves into a pit by using a "main" warframe and "metah" weapons. 
Basically...

If you don't have enough decent gear in your inventory, you have failed at one of the main principles of this game.

And because DE designed SP Circuit perfectly, you are still able to play it and even reach tier 10, but you are punished by it taking much longer. Being able to do it fast is a reward for having the stuff to do it fast.

ALSO...

8 hours is insane? Have we been playing the same game for the past 7 years?

The phrase "check your privilege" comes to mind here. Not everyone's been playing the game for multiple years. I've recently hit the 1-year mark. Yes, I'm much better position than I used to be. But I really don't have the resources yet to fully fuse some mods, don't have some mods, and certainly don't have the forma to really forma everything I do have up to proper SP ready levels. Some of the stuff I don't have is stuff people suggest for SP-ready gear, but, it's a pain to farm, or to attempt to obtain at any reasonable plat price from trading. Your attitude is bordering on abusive.

[Vryheid]

As stated earlier in this thread, the only ways to get these SP Circuit tiers done efficiently is to 1. Get in groups willing to stay through extended runs, preferably to at least the level cap defense as that's basically the "halfway point" to reach tier 10, and 2. Use warframes/gear that are naturally very strong in the Circuit gameplay modes.

Getting extended runs means you either want to be looking in recruit chat for groups of people or preferably join an active clan/guild with people looking to play. It sucks that public groups are so infuriating to deal with, but until DE starts punishing hosts for causing host migrations by leaving early then their selfish, disruptive behavior is going to continue. I generally always prefer playing with random groups of players than some premade group because it adds some interesting variety and challenge to the experience, but in this case making progress in Circuit is just to frustrating and sluggish to make pubs worthwhile.  

As for using stronger warframes/gear... well, if you don't have a huge variety of powerful guns/melee weapons available, the cheapest way I can advise to speed up these circuit runs is to get a powerful meta build for Mesa and Octavia, both with Pillage subsumed on them, and simply wait for one of them to pop up as an option before attempting to join a group. These two frames are outrageously powerful in Circuit right now thanks to the arena and mission types rendering their poor mobility mostly irrelevant and decree damage scaling upping their DPS output to the point that they scale perfectly all the way to level cap and are basically unkillable when used properly. Mesa in particular will shred through Defense and Extermination missions, while Octavia has some of the strongest crowd control around and makes Excavation missions at level cap much less of a frustrating slog to deal with. They also work with literally any weapon loadout meaning that you can still clean house as long as one of these two frames come up as options even if the guns you get are absolute garbage. You will notice significant drops in round clear times when one of these two frames are available.

Edited June 6 by Vryheid

[Grommile]

4 hours ago, jibbahjabbah said:

Can you give me an example of an objective statement? 

"Warframe is a video game."

"I am a human being."

"There are thirty Incarnon Genesis Adapters in Warframe."

"Robert Downey Junior has appeared in a number of Hollywood films."

"Beer is a fermented alcoholic drink."

"Uranium-235 is a fissile radionuclide."

[Stormandreas]

It's 3 hours and 14 minutes with 4 players, 1 as Limbo and 1 Xaku.

Ultimate defence and ultimate offence. Done. That's all you need to do. That was just us doing it casually too, if we really tried the whole time we could of cut the time down most likely

[Stormandreas]

On 2023-06-04 at 6:27 PM, Cerikus said:

And because DE designed SP Circuit perfectly...

I'm sorry... I could not read this without bursting out in laughter... 🤣

[jibbahjabbah]

1 hour ago, Grommile said:

"Warframe is a video game."

"I am a human being."

"There are thirty Incarnon Genesis Adapters in Warframe."

"Robert Downey Junior has appeared in a number of Hollywood films."

"Beer is a fermented alcoholic drink."

"Uranium-235 is a fissile radionuclide."

I see. Fair enough. I think objective truths can be more complex than that with the addition of asterisks but I get your point and understand why you think what you do. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

1 hour ago, jibbahjabbah said:

I see. Fair enough. I think objective truths can be more complex than that with the addition of asterisks but I get your point and understand why you think what you do. 

This reminds me of the typical debates of materialism versus idealism, but for some modern reason, dualism is such an unpopular claim; also the very debate is an understatement of the complexity of gaining knowledge (when you include the field of psychology) and some folks even commit False Dichotomy fallacy in regarding such debate. Even in regards to finding scientific evidence in regards to Quantum Mechanics, some scientists have argued that merely observing the w/e phenomenon can alter the experiment aka event itself, sometimes. However, they also argued it's impossible to prove either conclusion because of the way we naturally observe our very surroundings, which is the similar logic that common agnostics usually argue in regard to the existence of God/s. This is one of the reasons why scientists care so much about complex mathematics, especially in regard to Quantum Mechanics.
_________________________________________________
I'll give a more logical example of what I sorta mean:

1. There's a black box, which cannot be observed (not visible) from the outside of the said box. 

2. Person (A) inserts a blue cat into this black box.

3. Person (B), who is inside of the box somehow but not outside of the box, then sees a red cat.

4. Person (A) then opens the black box and pulls out a purple cat!

5. Person (A) argues the blue cat turns purple after entering and leaving the said box. However, Person (B) argues that the cat actually turns red inside the said box.

6. They are both correct, depending on the given context and perspective of observation required.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here's another example, but more of a metaphor:

1. Person (A) claims an aspect painting is beautiful and well-designed, but looks from afar and straight (centered) at it.

2. Person (B) claims the same painting is ugly and confusing, but looks from an acute angle and a few inches away from it.

3. Perspective matters in understanding one's environment, and thus also in regard to knowledge in general. 

Edited June 7 by CosmicHermitCrab