Duviri gave me more reason to play the game than Veilbreaker did

[LittleLeonie]

yea I'll say it. people might have their complaints with battlepass-like systems, but before duviri I'd regularly log into the game, check the world-state, find nothing of interest and log out again. Now I at least have my weekly circuit runs do do and in all honesty, if they would fix the rewards past tier 10 I'd keep going, because I, personally, find it enjoyable. I have every frame and weapon in the game (except founders items) and it's fun to mix it up sometimes - while actally doing meaningful damage with even usually trash weapons like an acrid or a stug. As I said, the only reason I currently don't play past tier 10 is that the rewards, even in steel path circuit are just not there, I don't want to play for over an hour just to get 5000 credits DE, you can do better than that.

[Voltage]

I mean, that's the purpose of a structured reward schedule. Glad you like it.

[Arbalest2]

"Yea I'll say it. I like 5000 credit rewards. If you do it enough it adds up. The game is meant to be played over time. You all just want to rush everything and then complain."

This is what you all sound like to me when you support systems that aren't designed for the player but are designed for arbitrarily increasing metrics for stockholders or manipulating people to play when the company wants instead of the player.

When they add the alternate way to get arcanes from Duviri and if its remotely reasonable compared to higher tier circuit and how long those ranks take, then we will all switch to that, finish it at the players desire and quit circuit. Ultimately, efficiency, the players choices and time available to grind will always be preferable to forced time gates.

I have no idea why people are so in favor of being unable to play or accomplish what they want on their own time. 

 

Edit. Even in your own post you state you STOP playing something you claim to enjoy bc after rank 10 its pointless. Imagine if it was consistent and not spread out over months. You'd be having...what's the word..oh right fun. You don't even see the contradiction in your own post. The bad reward is to prevent you from playing it too much so they can force your time to fit their schedule for you. 

 

Edited June 8 by Arbalest2

[givemeanameplez]

46 minutes ago, Arbalest2 said:

"Yea I'll say it. I like 5000 credit rewards. If you do it enough it adds up. The game is meant to be played over time. You all just want to rush everything and then complain."

This is what you all sound like to me when you support systems that aren't designed for the player but are designed for arbitrarily increasing metrics for stockholders or manipulating people to play when the company wants instead of the player.

When they add the alternate way to get arcanes from Duviri and if its remotely reasonable compared to higher tier circuit and how long those ranks take, then we will all switch to that, finish it at the players desire and quit circuit. Ultimately, efficiency, the players choices and time available to grind will always be preferable to forced time gates.

I have no idea why people are so in favor of being unable to play or accomplish what they want on their own time. 

 

Edit. Even in your own post you state you STOP playing something you claim to enjoy bc after rank 10 its pointless. Imagine if it was consistent and not spread out over months. You'd be having...what's the word..oh right fun. You don't even see the contradiction in your own post. The bad reward is to prevent you from playing it too much so they can force your time to fit their schedule for you. 

 

The problem isn't that 5k credits adds up, the problem is more that it's kinda pointless to spend more than ten minutes in most missions just for that. You could get the same in five in most survival missions, or pretty much any endless mission. Especially since after intrinsics are maxed you're not really getting anything else, and this is on steel path, where rewards are supposed to be better. 

As for saying that they are not actually enjoying it due to this, the feeling of truly wasting time does put a damper on things. It may be fun, but fun enough to do for no reward is fairly different.  At that point ya might as well play a different game mode, or a different game entirely. 

[DebrisFlow]

The main complaint is that the actual "battlepass" system works for people like you and not for people like me (and i know at least that i'm not alone). All we are asking for is a compromise system friendly enough for everybody without taking away the concept of diluting the rewards over a long time in a weekly schedule. A solution with a weekly limit of 2 earnable tokens to buy whatever 2 incarnons you want, from an omni-present shop, would both satisfy the requirement of diluting rewards over a long time span AND avoiding that stupidly unfriendly stupid stupidity of waiting up to 6 weeks for a missed opportunity while losing the progress of the last week.

[RafMatador22]

Of course, compared to the REWARDS from Kahl's quests, the REWARDS really compel me to play Duviri. I haven't played Kahl in months, that gameplay makes me sick, and now that styanax will be offered for free, I'll never set foot in there again. If there was a way to also not play duviri I would.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

18 hours ago, Voltage said:

I mean, that's the purpose of a structured reward schedule. Glad you like it.

Oh man, I would be happy if I could do the same for my real-life schedule! I guess that's what folks call having a job...oof

Imagine if I get paid playing the job: WarFarm, I would be rich!

"Before you can be rich, you must be poor. Give unto the Void."
- Nef Anyo (The Prophet of Profit)

Edited June 8 by CosmicHermitCrab

[American]

3 hours ago, Arbalest2 said:

"Yea I'll say it. I like 5000 credit rewards. If you do it enough it adds up. The game is meant to be played over time. You all just want to rush everything and then complain."

This is what you all sound like to me when you support systems that aren't designed for the player but are designed for arbitrarily increasing metrics for stockholders or manipulating people to play when the company wants instead of the player.

When they add the alternate way to get arcanes from Duviri and if its remotely reasonable compared to higher tier circuit and how long those ranks take, then we will all switch to that, finish it at the players desire and quit circuit. Ultimately, efficiency, the players choices and time available to grind will always be preferable to forced time gates.

I have no idea why people are so in favor of being unable to play or accomplish what they want on their own time. 

 

Edit. Even in your own post you state you STOP playing something you claim to enjoy bc after rank 10 its pointless. Imagine if it was consistent and not spread out over months. You'd be having...what's the word..oh right fun. You don't even see the contradiction in your own post. The bad reward is to prevent you from playing it too much so they can force your time to fit their schedule for you. 

 

This is blown way out of proportion to the point the post was trying to make. 

[Arbalest2]

16 minutes ago, American said:

This is blown way out of proportion to the point the post was trying to make. 

The post was someone baiting so they could argue they like the system or just pat themselves on the back (hence all the "I have every weapon" comments). If they read what they wrote and actually used their noodle for 5 seconds they would realize they actually don't like how this is designed and only support counter arguments.

I'm game for the debate if they want one which I assume they do by making this post in a  forum. As everyone here knows, we have nothing else to do until reset on Sunday since it's not worth playing the new content otherwise.

[LittleLeonie]

16 minutes ago, Arbalest2 said:

The post was someone baiting

no. I just wanted to give feedback - my personal feedback in the feedback forums. you didn't have to argue with my feedback 🤷‍♀️

If I wanted to start a discussion there's other sub-forums for that.

Edited June 8 by LittleLeonie

[Voltage]

20 minutes ago, Arbalest2 said:

As everyone here knows, we have nothing else to do until reset on Sunday since it's not worth playing the new content otherwise.

The game does feel like that since Veilbreaker to be quite honest.

[-AncientWarrior-]

23 minutes ago, Arbalest2 said:

As everyone here knows, we have nothing else to do until reset on Sunday since it's not worth playing the new content otherwise.

Yep ..  most of us now sign in do Archon, 30 mins, do circuit to get weapon adapters and bail for the rest of the week as there is nothing to do.. DE have completely bailed on actual warframe updates and we now have Kahlframe.. 

[American]

31 minutes ago, Arbalest2 said:

The post was someone baiting so they could argue they like the system or just pat themselves on the back (hence all the "I have every weapon" comments). If they read what they wrote and actually used their noodle for 5 seconds they would realize they actually don't like how this is designed and only support counter arguments.

I'm game for the debate if they want one which I assume they do by making this post in a  forum. As everyone here knows, we have nothing else to do until reset on Sunday since it's not worth playing the new content otherwise.

It's almost like it's.. normal... to take... breaks.. from the game? You don't have to be playing 24/7. 
 

honestly, topics aren't bait just because you don't agree with them and that's something no amount of us debating will change. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

On 2023-06-07 at 12:26 PM, LittleLeonie said:

yea I'll say it. people might have their complaints with battlepass-like systems, but before duviri I'd regularly log into the game, check the world-state, find nothing of interest and log out again. Now I at least have my weekly circuit runs do do and in all honesty, if they would fix the rewards past tier 10 I'd keep going, because I, personally, find it enjoyable. I have every frame and weapon in the game (except founders items) and it's fun to mix it up sometimes - while actally doing meaningful damage with even usually trash weapons like an acrid or a stug. As I said, the only reason I currently don't play past tier 10 is that the rewards, even in steel path circuit are just not there, I don't want to play for over an hour just to get 5000 credits DE, you can do better than that.

Amen.

I've had a blast with circuit. Going back to frames I haven't used in a long time and tweaking/improving their builds to appreciate them is great

[Arbalest2]

4 minutes ago, American said:

It's almost like it's.. normal... to take... breaks.. from the game? You don't have to be playing 24/7. 
 

That's the point I'm trying to make... I prefer to play when I want to, and when I can. It's one reason I loved this game prior to the new "we know what you want better than you" direction all other games have and this one seems to be going towards. 

As far as your other point, I give people the benefit of the doubt that they are purposefully being antagonistic rather than just clueless. Especially when they contradict themselves so clearly in their own post.

 

 

[Arbalest2]

Maybe why I posted just isn't clear to everyone here. So, let me try and explain better what I hear from posts like this. My post to this feedback was to point out it makes no sense.

You cannot say you like a weekly based battlepass system, but then state you wish the rewards were better past rank 10. They designed it so you won't want to play past rank 10 so that it IS a weekly system. If the rewards were better past rank 10 (say incarnons or more arcane chances), then we would all play like we have been in the rest of Warframe. Logging on when we can and grinding toward what we want specifically at our own pace. Thus making it no longer weekly. Maybe you'll say, "Well it doesnt have to be the incarnons or arcanes from Duviri", well I guarantee for most of us in this thread and most of the posts like this, 5k credits is the same as anything else they could offer since we likely have it all except those things.

Then we have the, "I log in to do my circuit runs now." And then? You log in and do the same thing you said you did before, which was log right back out. Imagine if you could actually just play this update and be rewarded with fun the whole time you played and not get slapped down by design. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

4 hours ago, Arbalest2 said:

You cannot say you like a weekly based battlepass system, but then state you wish the rewards were better past rank 10...Logging on when we can and grinding toward what we want specifically at our own pace...

So why what's wrong with doing what the OP wants and playing at his/her own pace and going beyond rank 10? Sometimes folks cram-play in one or few days because of their busy complex life schedules, too. Not everyone has to play Warframe weekly at 40 hours or less, just saying...

Also, one can play at different paces on different calendar weeks, too!

Edited June 9 by CosmicHermitCrab

[Lord_Drod]

@Arbalest2 This is exactly why I'm not touching the circuit at all.  I did two weeks and it sucks ass.  DE will just keep doing more changes like this and most people don't really realize what they're asking for.

I'm very confused why most people are okay with this, but those same people complained about the lich system when this is far worse in every possible way.

I might play 4 hrs a week, but I'm spending zero in the circuit.  DE doesn't know how to make a battle pass system worthwhile anyway.  They're out of touch with what the base would want to pay for.  These arcanes and weapons aren't worth paying for.  You should be getting paid for doing them, like streamers are.  Unfortunately, that's not the majority of their player base.

And Kahl sucks but it's a 30 min mission tops, so is the archon.  So the time value vs reward is more comparable.  Of course Kahl content was unwanted, but I actually like it more when things like the circuit exist.  

But you can't criticize this mode at all without being attacked for being a meta player with 2 weapons in your arsenal, as if that's the problem. I have a power arsenal, but you could upgrade it to forma and God roll on every weapon and piece of fodder, helminth optimal every frame and this mode would still never get touched.

[Arbalest2]

1 hour ago, Lord_Drod said:

@Arbalest2 This is exactly why I'm not touching the circuit at all.  I did two weeks and it sucks ass.  DE will just keep doing more changes like this and most people don't really realize what they're asking for.

I'm very confused why most people are okay with this, but those same people complained about the lich system when this is far worse in every possible way.

I might play 4 hrs a week, but I'm spending zero in the circuit.  DE doesn't know how to make a battle pass system worthwhile anyway.  They're out of touch with what the base would want to pay for.  These arcanes and weapons aren't worth paying for.  You should be getting paid for doing them, like streamers are.  Unfortunately, that's not the majority of their player base.

And Kahl sucks but it's a 30 min mission tops, so is the archon.  So the time value vs reward is more comparable.  Of course Kahl content was unwanted, but I actually like it more when things like the circuit exist.  

But you can't criticize this mode at all without being attacked for being a meta player with 2 weapons in your arsenal, as if that's the problem. I have a power arsenal, but you could upgrade it to forma and God roll on every weapon and piece of fodder, helminth optimal every frame and this mode would still never get touched.

As far as I can tell, the ones supporting this have no clue what they are even saying. Their responses are either completely contradictory or just nonsense that wasn't what was even said in the first place; like the previous post altering my quote in bad faith and then stating something that mirrors more what everyone else has been saying and not them. 

And yes we went through the same thing with Liches and some other content as well. I will never understand why people defend systems that are poorly designed. Is it some corporate attachment? Inability to think critically? Culture difference with accepting anything even if it's not in your interest? It makes no sense to me. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

12 hours ago, Arbalest2 said:

"Yea I'll say it. I like 5000 credit rewards. If you do it enough it adds up. The game is meant to be played over time. You all just want to rush everything and then complain."

This is what you all sound like to me when you support systems that aren't designed for the player but are designed for arbitrarily increasing metrics for stockholders or manipulating people to play when the company wants instead of the player.

9 minutes ago, Arbalest2 said:

As far as I can tell, the ones supporting this have no clue what they are even saying. Their responses are either completely contradictory or just nonsense that wasn't what was even said in the first place; like the previous post altering my quote in bad faith and then stating something that mirrors more what everyone else has been saying and not them. 

And yes we went through the same thing with Liches and some other content as well. I will never understand why people defend systems that are poorly designed. Is it some corporate attachment? Inability to think critically? Culture difference with accepting anything even if it's not in your interest? It makes no sense to me. 

I think some of the previous posters were confused, in claiming you supported the 5k of credits, because you quoted it with only quotation marks.
However, the OP didn't support the 5k of credits originally and the first quote here is the very third post of this thread. Who are you opposing? Voltage?

From OP:

On 2023-06-07 at 3:26 PM, LittleLeonie said:

...I don't want to play for over an hour just to get 5000 credits DE, you can do better than that.

Edited June 9 by CosmicHermitCrab

[Lord_Drod]

He's saying the OP is a fan of the mode, but isn't a fan of the rewards past 10.  But they go together, because the point of the system is to milk you for the max and make the rewards take as long as possible, while you grind week in week out for the incarnons.  The bad rewards past 10 are meant to be as a deterrent, so you won't get them too fast and continue to play weekly.  So you should see what they're trying to do and avoid the circuit too(if that's not what you want).  It doesn't make sense to be a fan of the mode, but not understand why the rewards are being laid out that way.  That's what he's trying to say, ignoring all the gameplay and other issues aside, and I kind of agree.

There's nothing wrong with playing at your own pace, but if you support a weekly battle pass like system that this is becoming, you have to expect the rewards past the weekly quota, to be bad, because that's how it works by design.  They aren't going to buff those rewards, so you have to understand that.  That specifically I did not understand right on release, but I definitely do now.  Since the weapons themselves don't have mastery, they assume not everyone is going to farm every single one, so they need the arcanes to drop at an abysmal rate, so you can't just get the arcanes you want, the weapons you want, and stop "paying" for the weekly system.

Edited June 9 by Lord_Drod

[CosmicHermitCrab]

17 minutes ago, Lord_Drod said:

He's saying the OP is a fan of the mode, but isn't a fan of the rewards past 10.  But they go together, because the point of the system is to milk you for the max and make the rewards take as long as possible, while you grind week in week out for the incarnons.  The bad rewards past 10 are meant to be as a deterrent, so you won't get them too fast and continue to play weekly.  So you should see what they're trying to do and avoid the circuit too.  It doesn't make sense to be a fan of the mode, but not understand why the rewards are being laid out that way.  That's what he's trying to say, ignoring all the gameplay and other issues aside, and I kind of agree.

Ah, I see now, but the game mode itself and the rewards are technically two separate categories, but the bigger picture of the whole circuit is the declared issue. I don't agree with Arbalest2's way of arguing, but I do agree with the person's overall conclusion.

Hate to say it, but it's gonna work because of those incarnons alone. The circuit is already privileged by heavily invested older players, and they want to become completionists.

Kinda reminds me of the progression meta of the Runescape series, which isn't just maxing all stats, but collecting everything as drops. I had a friend joke about Warframe in an insulting way before that it's all just one collection log, its game progression. The thing is, the normal MR system itself already favors such gameplay progression, completionism. 

I'm not saying it's a good system, but...it will keep the older players playing because they will "fear to miss out" if they don't collect all of the incarnons they possibly can. 

The older players won by voicing their feedback to DE, so as a result, it will vastly segregate the player base of Warframe...and IMO, fewer and fewer newer players will be attracted to want to try playing Warframe as their "main game." Gacha game communities network in this fashion too, on the sociological level.

I guess there's nothing better to do in Warframe than collecting everything, oof...kinda makes me wanna quit now, tbh.

Edited June 9 by CosmicHermitCrab

[Lord_Drod]

1 minute ago, CosmicHermitCrab said:

Hate to say it, but it's gonna work because of those incarnons alone. The circuit is already privileged by heavily invested older players, and they want to become completionists.

I know, and I agree with you.  I've basically gotten everything too and this is one thing I've felt like I shouldn't do.  It feels better when you come to that realization.  Plus, just look at how buggy the incarnons on.  I'm puzzled as to why they wouldn't give mastery, because that would give some others that feel like they have to master everything a harder decision.  For me, that makes the decision even easier.  I'd rather give them money when they pump out something I really like and that fits in with how I play the game, instead of the opposite for both.

I'm not sure who is playing the circuit to be honest.  I know all the hardcore guys are who play warframe for breakfast, but it seems like a bunch of casuals/newer players in there as well.  I can feel the grind when I slog through it and the weak rewards.  A lot of players complain about things to do, which I haven't had a problem ever in Warframe, but yes it does look like that group has some chores finally.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

1 minute ago, Lord_Drod said:

I'm not sure who is playing the circuit to be honest.  I know all the hardcore guys are who play warframe for breakfast, but it seems like a bunch of casuals/newer players in there as well.

Yeah, I have been playing circuit every week and it's starting to burn me out tbh. I don't even feel like doing fissures or Nightwave even, too...
I might honestly consider trying out other games and taking another Warframe hiatus!

Edited June 9 by CosmicHermitCrab

[Lord_Drod]

6 minutes ago, CosmicHermitCrab said:

Yeah, I have been playing circuit every week and it's starting to burn me out tbh. I don't even feel like doing fissures or Nightwave even, too...
I might honestly consider trying out other games and taking another Warframe hiatus!

Yep, I have 4k hours in game, but I don't always have consistent time to play, like recently I haven't and there's plenty of things to do in Warframe.  Its hard to do the other stuff you like doing!  I do like running some SP fissures and not always some long slog.  There's plenty of weekly content already.  So its not like 100% of your Warframe leisure time should be spent grinding the circuit or you will get burned out.  I expect that to happen to many casuals that support this mode.  Either that or they just don't even try to complete it and don't care, and DE is fine with that!  Right now I just do archon, kahl and maybe I'll add in some fissures and things now that I'm done with duviri and I'll just follow what unfolds with these updates.

DE knows those incarnons were a big hit, so I guess good job with this system, but there are some that can see through it and will be alienated by it and as long as were in the minority and they keep adding new players and stuffing their pockets I'm sure its fine.  Trying some other games is probably a good idea.  I have a huge backlog.