Steel path circuit feels like a way to try and squeeze money out of me.

[Braneman]

Since people seem to completely and entirely miss the point of this I can sum it up in one sentence: "spending more money on the game makes it worse." Spending more money on the game makes the circuit experience worse. It is insane that any part of the game is set up so that spending more money means you have less fun.

 

I do want to say that beforehand I generally can make the steel path circuit work with the weapons given to me. I also don't think this is the intended feel of the steel path circuit. But I'm not having fun(that's the important part here, this is a game, not a job)

Right now of the secondaries the steel path will DEMAND(ones that I currently do not own) to show me no matter what I count three, the aklato, single cestra, and the talons. From the perspective of the steel path circuit there are three unowned secondaries that it can possibly show me that don't have a better version of that I don't own. The game will ALWAYS try and show me one of these exact three garbage guns forever. I hate this.

The reason I hate this is because 1: these guns were thrown away because they are trash, and they were designed to be trash. 2: I'm worried that any changes to this system will mean that I get the normal lato and the viper shoved down my throat by the game 3: keeping these guns around so they never ever show up again costs actual REAL MONEY 4: keeping these things around only costs like 14 cents worth of platinum(one weapon slot), so it feels like the game is doing a forceful shakedown on me for pocket change.

I own most guns in the game and it's rare for me to decide something needs to be chucked, just the other day I decided to try and make the normal akbronco work in steel path, most guns I have are potatoed. The way the steel path circuit is designed really feels like it's trying extremely hard to tell me "No, you haven't spent enough money on the game yet to have fun in this gamemode, you are required to spend more money on weapon slots for trash guns so you don't see the aklato and the single kama again."

These weapons are not useful to me anywhere else in the game but the way the circuit is designed is screaming at me that despite spending all that money on potatoes, weapon slots, riven slots, and forma, that isn't good enough and I need to spend money on things that aren't good and possibly will never be good or else the game is going to completely lock out those slots in steel path circuit, for 14 cents worth of platinum per weapon. It would cost about a dollar to keep all these weapons around. I don't think that this is intended, but it feels really insulting and petty that the game is basically screaming at me to spend like 48 platinum on weapon slots to keep trash around, especially with the Aklato, that one is really insulting because it only costs credits so the system is demanding I spend basically 6 platinum to get it out of my face.

I've never felt before in warframe that I've been REQUIRED to spend platinum to start having fun in the game. Say for example buying a potato now can get a better build on a warframe or gun, but if you're patient one can show up, so I would go and buy one. Certain things like more weapon slots were not required for me to have fun and I could trade for plat and buy them, it was never required in this way and I never needed as many weapon slots as I have now. But right now in the circuit the game is going to keep showing me these few already mastered garbage weapons until I cough up some plat and get them out of my face, and it really bothers me how aggressively the game feels like it's shaking me down for 14 cents worth of platinum, even if I don't think it's intentional.

Edited June 10 by Braneman

[_Anise_]

dosn't the game always try to show you 3 guns you don't own ? so if you own most stuff the same handful of guns you dont will show up consistently.

Ithen f you invest time and money into acquiring and leveling an unowned gun that shows up often, the chances it showing up again become suddenly low!

so do they actually realistically expect players to own and build every weapon in the game steel path ready ? because that does feel pay2win

Edited June 9 by _Anise_

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, Braneman said:

keeping these guns around so they never ever show up again costs actual REAL MONEY

what?

6 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

dosn't the game always try to show you 3 guns you don't own ? so if you own most stuff a handful of guns you dont own will show up consistently.

I've seen this being said around the forums multiple times now. Is it true? Did DE say this? I definitelly didn't hear it nor read it anywhere.

Edited June 9 by Cerikus

[_Anise_]

2 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I've seen this being said around the forums multiple times now. Is it true? Did DE say this? I definitelly didn't hear it nor read it anywhere.

I have seen it said on the forums too so I don't know if its true for weapons, but I know the opposite is true for warframes, if you only own 3 frames those 3 will show up every time

[Braneman]

9 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

what?

Buying a weapon slot costs platinum, the game is trying to shake me down so I spend 12 platinum for weapon slots so I spend 25,000 credits to buy the aklato, if I do that then the aklato will basically never show up again in the steel path circuit because I own almost every gun in the game. The steel path circuit is REALLY aggressive about this, that is what I'm complaining about, the game is screaming at me that I can unlock another slot in steel path circuit for weapons to show up if I spend 6 platinum for a slot for the aklato, even though the aklato isn't useful anywhere else in the entire game, and it's doing this because I own almost everything else in the game.

That's why I'm so annoyed, it feels like I'm in one of the worse F2P games out there, and I got into this situation by actively spending a good bit of money on the game, but the game is just screaming at me at the top of it's lungs that I haven't spent ALL the money yet even though it's about 14-30 cents worth of plat.

[Cerikus]

17 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

I have seen it said on the forums too so I don't know if its true for weapons, but I know the opposite is true for warframes, if you only own 3 frames those 3 will show up every time

Not entirely true. Here, I found it.

On 2023-04-26 at 4:59 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Upon entering Teshin’s Cave, you will be presented with randomized Warframe and Weapon options. These options are pulled directly from your Arsenal, and at least 1 of the options from each category (Warframe, Primary Weapon, Secondary Weapon, and Melee Weapon) will be something you do not own*. 

Unless of course you do in fact own everything - you go getter! In a similar fashion, if you have less than 10 unowned Warframes, those Warfames have a lower chance of appearing in the Cave to prevent repeated options across each Spiral. A similar methodology is applied to Weapon selections as well. 

I gotta say I find this somehow problematic. It shouldn't be "at least 1", it should be proportional. Ex: I own 60% of secondaries, therefore 60% of those in cave should be mine.

11 minutes ago, Braneman said:

Buying a weapon slot costs platinum, the game is trying to shake me down so I spend 12 platinum for weapon slots so I spend 25,000 credits to buy the aklato, if I do that then the aklato will basically never show up again in the steel path circuit because I own almost every gun in the game. The steel path circuit is REALLY aggressive about this, that is what I'm complaining about, the game is screaming at me that I can unlock another slot in steel path circuit for weapons to show up if I spend 6 platinum for a slot for the aklato, even though the aklato isn't useful anywhere else in the entire game, and it's doing this because I own almost everything else in the game.

That's why I'm so annoyed, it feels like I'm in one of the worse F2P games out there, and I got into this situation by actively spending a good bit of money on the game, but the game is just screaming at me at the top of it's lungs that I haven't spent ALL the money yet even though it's about 14-30 cents worth of plat.

I get that. I was just surprised by the REAL MONEY, because you know, plat can be earned easily. And yeah I gotta agree the way the weapons are picked is weird. I didn't read this when it came out and I've never run into any issues like that, but it's weird. As I said above, it probably should be proportional, not the way it is now.

[Grommile]

17 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I get that. I was just surprised by the REAL MONEY, because you know, plat can be earned easily.

It costs someone real money, because you can't trade giveaway plat, only purchased plat.

[_Anise_]

16 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

options are pulled directly from your Arsenal, and at least 1 of the options from each category (Warframe, Primary Weapon, Secondary Weapon, and Melee Weapon) will be something you do not own*. 

so if I own every warframe in the game, didn't go opportunity 10 and delete hydroid because I can't stand him, the game will give me hydroid every single time ? on paper it sounds like it works this way !

also I don't l know about "at least 1" in the case of warframes I have verified it myself, you always get 3 frames from your collection, hence collecting lots of frames actually punishes you!

 

[Frendh]

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

so do they actually realistically expect players to own and build every weapon in the game steel path ready ? because that does feel pay2win

I have not built and modded too many weapons. SP Circuit is still easy on average. Even with the worst of worst picks of default modded items for the whole squad one can still do 5 rounds.

So based off of the difficulty it makes perfect sense to push bad weapons on players. Otherwise the challenge degree would become stupidly low.

So it would not surprise me if the weapons you use the most have been weighted to be pulled less often than weapons you use the least. From my tiny sample size it seems to be the case. Not a problem for me.

[_Anise_]

3 hours ago, Frendh said:

Not a problem for me.

with a group of  4 is steel path circuit doable, yes.. is it fun ? subjective, but for me bullet sponge enemies are not fun, for other people doing low damage i have seen them drop out after 1 round.

Edited June 9 by _Anise_

[Braneman]

19 minutes ago, Frendh said:

I have not built and modded too many weapons. SP Circuit is still easy on average. Even with the worst of worst picks of default modded items for the whole squad one can still do 5 rounds.

So based off of the difficulty it makes perfect sense to push bad weapons on players. Otherwise the challenge degree would become stupidly low.

So it would not surprise me if the weapons you use the most have been weighted to be pulled less often than weapons you use the least. From my tiny sample size it seems to be the case. Not a problem for me.

Okay for me personally here is how its going down, assuming a 50% sale on plat I have spent 71$(6 plat is 14 cents, there are 507 total weapons, probably a few more for kitguns/zaws) on weapon slots or somewhere in that neighborhood, because of the way the circuit works the game is essentially telling me that I haven't spent enough money because there are about three to six weapons I don't own because I sold them off after I mastered them.

So basically because I spent around 71$ exclusively on weapon slots ALONE, this game mode is really angry with me and will make a point to show me weapons that are so trashy that you can buy them with credits. So in this game mode for spending more than the cost of a retail game, the game is trying to force me to spend 14 cents worth of plat on a weapon that it is almost impossible to spend real money to buy, that I will never use, and the only reason I'm in this situation is because I handed the developers money, and the second I waste another slot on a weapon that I will never use the problem goes away and suddenly I have a huge advantage in steel path circuit.

I don't think this is intentional but it's really frustrating, I gave the developers a lot of money and the design of the game is set up so that I need to spend more for a truly random experience in the steel path circuit again. People who only have like 50 weapons are probably fine, people who have absolutely everything are fine, but in the middle you start to have people like me. I imagine it's worse for people who don't own basically every prime weapon in the game and the prisma/vandal/wraith weapons, because then those people could be haunted by the default lato, or the cronus, or the normal hikou.

I have never thought more about how much money I spent on this game until it started actively pushing me to waste a slot on the aklato.

[sunderthefirmament]

If DE demands that the randomizer be weighted, then I wish it would be weighted towards unMASTERED gear, not unowned.  This would still nudge players towards engaging with more systems in the game without feeling as predatory as the current setup: “Remember this piece of trash gun that you hated, mastered, and then sold?  Build it again, sucker.”
 

I’m so sick of building kohmaks and kamas at this point. 

[TheRoyalBrook]

If I did the math right, there's 76 unique secondary types. So if you're dead set on never ever seeing a loaner of a type, that's a whopping 456 plat assuming you have no slots at all to begin with. Obviously you'll want some variety with melee/primary, but its not that hard of an ask for someone on SP to have more than a small handful of weapons. Thankfully in this game you can trade for plat, so you should look into doing that to build up your arsenal further

[Mr.Holyroller]

6 hours ago, Braneman said:

I do want to say that beforehand I generally can make the steel path circuit work with the weapons given to me. I also don't think this is the intended feel of the steel path circuit. But I'm not having fun(that's the important part here, this is a game, not a job)

Right now of the secondaries the steel path will DEMAND(ones that I currently do not own) to show me no matter what I count three, the aklato, single cestra, and the talons. From the perspective of the steel path circuit there are three unowned secondaries that it can possibly show me that don't have a better version of that I don't own. The game will ALWAYS try and show me one of these exact three garbage guns forever. I hate this.

The reason I hate this is because 1: these guns were thrown away because they are trash, and they were designed to be trash. 2: I'm worried that any changes to this system will mean that I get the normal lato and the viper shoved down my throat by the game 3: keeping these guns around so they never ever show up again costs actual REAL MONEY 4: keeping these things around only costs like 14 cents worth of platinum(one weapon slot), so it feels like the game is doing a forceful shakedown on me for pocket change.

I own most guns in the game and it's rare for me to decide something needs to be chucked, just the other day I decided to try and make the normal akbronco work in steel path, most guns I have are potatoed. The way the steel path circuit is designed really feels like it's trying extremely hard to tell me "No, you haven't spent enough money on the game yet to have fun in this gamemode, you are required to spend more money on weapon slots for trash guns so you don't see the aklato and the single kama again."

These weapons are not useful to me anywhere else in the game but the way the circuit is designed is screaming at me that despite spending all that money on potatoes, weapon slots, riven slots, and forma, that isn't good enough and I need to spend money on things that aren't good and possibly will never be good or else the game is going to completely lock out those slots in steel path circuit, for 14 cents worth of platinum per weapon. It would cost about a dollar to keep all these weapons around. I don't think that this is intended, but it feels really insulting and petty that the game is basically screaming at me to spend like 48 platinum on weapon slots to keep trash around, especially with the Aklato, that one is really insulting because it only costs credits so the system is demanding I spend basically 6 platinum to get it out of my face.

I've never felt before in warframe that I've been REQUIRED to spend platinum to start having fun in the game. Say for example buying a potato now can get a better build on a warframe or gun, but if you're patient one can show up, so I would go and buy one. Certain things like more weapon slots were not required for me to have fun and I could trade for plat and buy them, it was never required in this way and I never needed as many weapon slots as I have now. But right now in the circuit the game is going to keep showing me these few already mastered garbage weapons until I cough up some plat and get them out of my face, and it really bothers me how aggressively the game feels like it's shaking me down for 14 cents worth of platinum, even if I don't think it's intentional.

Lucky for you, there's 0 reason to buy platinum and buy all the slots/weapons you want to your heart's content for free. You can simply play the game and sell items.

 

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If DE demands that the randomizer be weighted, then I wish it would be weighted towards unMASTERED gear, not unowned

 like if playing a weapon you didn't master in circuit meant you could gain mastery of it it without needing to ever farm grind and own it to get the mastery before selling it ??? ⭐GOLD STAR⭐ otherwise I don't see what this would achieve?

playing an unowned weapon would just be as bad as playing an unmastered one, people might complain about these same unmastered weapons showing up that they just don't want to ever use, then what if you mastered everything ? it's back to being completly random and giving you stug for steel path ?

[sunderthefirmament]

1 minute ago, _Anise_ said:

like if playing a weapon you didn't master in circuit meant you could gain mastery of it it without needing to ever farm grind and own it to get the mastery before selling it ??? ⭐GOLD STAR⭐ otherwise I don't see what this would achieve?

Do we get MR for weapons we don’t own?  I thought we didn’t. 
 

This change would prevent crap that you built, ranked up, and sold long ago from constantly appearing in the circuit. Before I figured out the weighting, I was wondering why the stug was showing up so often. Now that I’ve rebuilt it, it has the same chance to appear as my other owned gear.  I’m the sort of player that has ranked up everything I can, and I only rarely sell garbage weapons for space. The circuit was punishing me by constantly populating its weapon offerings with trash that I sold long ago. 
 

This change would preserve the circuit as a place to try new stuff while still respecting veteran players who don’t want to rebuild the cestra or single kama.

[cute_moth.npc]

It's going to always show you unowned garbage until you own absolutely everything. The other way to handle it is basically:

Sell everything that you haven't put a ton of investment into and now it's showing you nothing but good things in the "owned" slots ^^;

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Do we get MR for weapons we don’t own?  I thought we didn’t. 

no, I am saying if we did I would like the system more, your suggestion would make even more sense !

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

This change would prevent crap that you built, ranked up, and sold long ago from constantly appearing in the circuit

so if it weighted more towards stuff you hadn't mastered it would still have the problem that bad stuff with random bad builds shows up

[Braneman]

2 hours ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Lucky for you, there's 0 reason to buy platinum and buy all the slots/weapons you want to your heart's content for free. You can simply play the game and sell items.

 

To quote the post you never bothered to understand:

"The game is trying to force me to spend 14 cents worth of plat on a weapon that it is almost impossible to spend real money to buy, that I will never use, and the only reason I'm in this situation is because I handed the developers money, and the second I waste another slot on a weapon that I will never use the problem goes away and suddenly I have a huge advantage in steel path circuit."

you can replace "money" with "time" and nothing changes.

[Braneman]

33 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

It's going to always show you unowned garbage until you own absolutely everything. The other way to handle it is basically:

Sell everything that you haven't put a ton of investment into and now it's showing you nothing but good things in the "owned" slots ^^;

That sounds like a problem that this specific game mode invented, and that sounds like the wrong way to fix things.

[Mr.Holyroller]

15 minutes ago, Braneman said:

To quote the post you never bothered to understand:

"The game is trying to force me to spend 14 cents worth of plat on a weapon that it is almost impossible to spend real money to buy, that I will never use, and the only reason I'm in this situation is because I handed the developers money, and the second I waste another slot on a weapon that I will never use the problem goes away and suddenly I have a huge advantage in steel path circuit."

you can replace "money" with "time" and nothing changes.

If your time is that valuable don't waste it playing videogames

Edited June 9 by Mr.Holyroller

[Cerenax]

7 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

dosn't the game always try to show you 3 guns you don't own ? so if you own most stuff the same handful of guns you dont will show up consistently.

Ithen f you invest time and money into acquiring and leveling an unowned gun that shows up often, the chances it showing up again become suddenly low!

so do they actually realistically expect players to own and build every weapon in the game steel path ready ? because that does feel pay2win

They are even going to change the interface so that it shows the weapons you are going to get before you enter the cave, that way you can buy/potato/forma them before starting the mission.

9 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

 

If your time is that valuable don't waste it playing videogames

 

Edited June 9 by Cerenax

[cute_moth.npc]

21 minutes ago, Braneman said:

That sounds like a problem that this specific game mode invented, and that sounds like the wrong way to fix things.

I agree that it's a problem that this specific game mode invented. I mean.. The weapons you get offered literally have nothing but auto modder setups on them and the vast majority aren't any fun to try and use in steel path at all. They're basically dead slots when they appear..

I can't honestly say it's the right way to fix things for everyone, but at least for me it kind of is fun to burn stuff down in protest ^^;

I never need to spend plat on weapon / Warframe slots, loadouts or much of anything now lol 

Edited June 9 by cute_moth.npc

[_Anise_]

4 minutes ago, Cerenax said:

They are even going to change the interface so that it shows the weapons you are going to get before you enter the cave, that way you can buy/potato/forma them before starting the mission.

While I agree its a nice QOL, you could always just enter the cave on solo and see what was on offer leave and do that!

I have 14 forma stockpiled  some of these are reserved for warframes, some for weapons  but to suggest people forma a weapon every time it shows up in the cave ? its at least 4 days of crafting forma to get a gun steel path ready, not even considering the reactor and arcane adapter ! so maybe I can do a weapon that shows up in steel path maybe 2 or 3 times until I am out of resources, also rotations only last 2 hours can you build a weapon in that time ? maybe with boosters and paying plat?

what you are alluding isn't going to be viable vast majority of players with the exception of whales.

 

[Braneman]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

If your time is that valuable don't waste it playing videogames

Here is a TL:DR of my post with the relevant parts over explained, underlined, italicized and bolded, three times for you.

I don't want to give the game any money or time when it's trying to shake me down for teeny tiny amounts for entirely artificial reasons.

I feel insulted that the game is withholding things to players who have a large investment in the game be it time or money, because they need to spend less than the price of a gumball MORE money.

I'm frustrated because at no other point has the game seemed to invent a reason for me to either burn most of my entire gear collection, or make space for trash.

(even though I do not think this is intentional by the developers, that's just the way things seemed to have worked out)