This game needs actual endgame content.

[(PSN)rexis12]

1 hour ago, Skelly_the_Skellington said:

Why can't there be objectives where better times/performance = Greater rewards rather than it being left solely to drop chance? Why isn't there any incentive past just completing the basic objective?

Because when we do use the right tool for better performance, DE sees that as a reason for Nerfs instead of us using the tools that were given to do better.

Healing was nerfed across the board because the few people that liked to do defense and excavation used either healing frames or Vazarin to keep the objectives alive. Making healing or support frames worthless at healing objectives, and relegated to healing allies which more often than not don't require the healing in the first place or would be better benefit with DR, something that was also nerfed from Objectives with some Frames having those abilities excluded.

When Railjack up and people used the Amesha to counter the initially overtuned enemies, instead of seeing them using another Archwing that wasn't Iztal, which they also nerfed simply because it was the right tool for open world traversal, as a sign of them using the correct took or tactic. They talked about wanting to nerf it.

And I don't want people to forget the time Pablo didn't like how Saryn was very present in ESO and  wanted to nerf the her. He even said that he thought EMBER would be more popular there, you know the frame where most of her damage comes from spamming her 4, because the fire ring effect doesn't actually do anything and if you spam your 4th ability in ESO it gets locked?

Franky I'm surprised that they didn't have a 'Crystal Occasionally lets out nullifying pulses' for Mirror Defense when people started using Titania to collect, like how they literally took away the ability to heal the crystals because I guess wanting to heal with your healing frames as a sort of back up was too much for them.

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I know that the term is overloaded and could stand to be separated into even more nuanced categorisation, so I’m partly to blame for continuing the tradition of using the term “AI” for everything.

 

You’ve been talking about tactics and enemy options alongside showing videos of what’s clearly bugged and odd behaviour. I’m not unfamiliar with things like the notorious pathing of the Power Cell carriers in Excavation, but it’s seriously not so constantly game-breaking as you’re making it out to be; a few videos’ worth, a bit of a laugh, and then back to the game. If DE tightened it up, I certainly wouldn’t complain, but I’ve got more problem with the stupid wall attack animation than the AI

Path finding and finite state machines are the very basics. 

We know what AI in video game are. At least we know few parameters such as aim accuracy, hit/miss ratio, the four P (Preservation, Position, Preference, Priority), path finding strategies and team coordination. 

Military accuracy works with the four Ps. Structural thinking happens when there is an exhaustive evaluation of the states and how the machine develops a plan, strategy and tactics. This is the very basics. Then you have the other field of machine learning. That is another subject in video games. 

DE makes the enemy easy to target with basic guns. They do not react when they get shot, they do not pull counteneuvers or throw lots of grenades. They do not even throw gas bombs for temporary gas curtain walls. They do not follow military behavior such as taking cover and progressing slow. They do not call for reinforcements as they should. Lore Wise they do not even communicate when a warframe hit few of these troops. 

The AI resembles the mind of a seven years old child who is not aware of danger, not aware of the surroundings, who is not aware of the threat and does not communicate or at least attempt to save his life. I am not including passives/actives, I am not including parry or stagger. I am not including the strategy of shield gating at all against them. I am only focusing on the classical standard attack that you do with your primary, secondary and melee. 

The AI does not react as it should.  

[Stafelund]

5 hours ago, Felsagger said:

AI was found RUNNING in CIRCLES.

 

I've been seeing enemies go "ring around the rosie" on another enemy lately in my spy runs, which looked amusing. I've also seen some who keeps walking into walls. Both happened in the Corpus ship tileset that has an issue with Railjack too. 

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Because when we do use the right tool for better performance, DE sees that as a reason for Nerfs instead of us using the tools that were given to do better.

Yes correct. The right tool for the right job is called optimization or mini/maxing. 

2 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Healing was nerfed across the board because the few people that liked to do defense and excavation used either healing frames or Vazarin to keep the objectives alive. Making healing or support frames worthless at healing objectives, and relegated to healing allies which more often than not don't require the healing in the first place or would be better benefit with DR, something that was also nerfed from Objectives with some Frames having those abilities excluded.

When Railjack up and people used the Amesha to counter the initially overtuned enemies, instead of seeing them using another Archwing that wasn't Iztal, which they also nerfed simply because it was the right tool for open world traversal, as a sign of them using the correct took or tactic. They talked about wanting to nerf it.

And I don't want people to forget the time Pablo didn't like how Saryn was very present in ESO and  wanted to nerf the her. He even said that he thought EMBER would be more popular there, you know the frame where most of her damage comes from spamming her 4, because the fire ring effect doesn't actually do anything and if you spam your 4th ability in ESO it gets locked?

Franky I'm surprised that they didn't have a 'Crystal Occasionally lets out nullifying pulses' for Mirror Defense when people started using Titania to collect, like how they literally took away the ability to heal the crystals because I guess wanting to heal with your healing frames as a sort of back up was too much for them.

The AI has zero countermeasures against those frames. There are two options.

A. Use pylons that cancels out the abilities of Warframes leaving the user to the standard mobility and the mechanical game play of aiming and melee. 

B. Equip elite forces with powerful weapons that can knock out warframes harming them with two or three shots. Have troops that can seriously harm a Warframe despite how biffed the Warframe is. And of course instagib. 

 

3 minutes ago, Stafelund said:

I've been seeing enemies go "ring around the rosie" on another enemy lately in my spy runs, which looked amusing. I've also seen some who keeps walking into walls. Both happened in the Corpus ship tileset that has an issue with Railjack too. 

Exactly. They have the classical issues of finding the paths and navigating the tileset. The AI in Warframe almost predates the PS2 era in some occasions. I've seen enemies running in circles. That alone says a lot. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Path finding and finite state machines are the very basics. 

We know what AI in video game are. At least we know few parameters such as aim accuracy, hit/miss ratio, the four P (Preservation, Position, Preference, Priority), path finding strategies and team coordination. 

Military accuracy works with the four Ps. Structural thinking happens when there is an exhaustive evaluation of the states and how the machine develops a plan, strategy and tactics. This is the very basics. Then you have the other field of machine learning. That is another subject in video games. 

DE makes the enemy easy to target with basic guns. They do not react when they get shot, they do not pull counteneuvers or throw lots of grenades. They do not even throw gas bombs for temporary gas curtain walls. They do not follow military behavior such as taking cover and progressing slow. They do not call for reinforcements as they should. Lore Wise they do not even communicate when a warframe hit few of these troops. 

The AI resembles the mind of a seven years old child who is not aware of danger, not aware of the surroundings, who is not aware of the threat and does not communicate or at least attempt to save his life. I am not including passives/actives, I am not including parry or stagger. I am not including the strategy of shield gating at all against them. I am only focusing on the classical standard attack that you do with your primary, secondary and melee. 

The AI does not react as it should.  

You mean react like they’re some kind of general AI, and magically that is what makes a game challenging in a fun way, though I’m not sure how well the demons in Doom would take to acting like humans. I saw your reference to ChatGPT as if it was something we can use in games

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You mean react like they’re some kind of general AI, and magically that is what makes a game challenging in a fun way.

Nope. 

It helps immersion and authenticity of the game itself. A game becomes fun when the player is immersed in a challenge where mistakes are punished and performance is rewarded. If the game forgives those mistakes then the sense of danger disappears. A game should provide elements where the player understands that decisions has consequences (favorable or counterproductive). 

[(NSW)Greybones]

-deleted-

[(NSW)Greybones]

28 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Nope. 

It helps immersion and authenticity of the game itself. A game becomes fun when the player is immersed in a challenge where mistakes are punished and performance is rewarded. If the game forgives those mistakes then the sense of danger disappears. A game should provide elements where the player understands that decisions has consequences (favorable or counterproductive). 

Oh my god this weirdness with the quotes

Okay. And Warframe can provide that; a fight can have its ups and downs, its moments of reward and moments of panic, where you’re going to want to make the right calls based on things like energy available, how your gear is built and what role it’s meant to play and how you’re using it, whether you’re in an open area or more-enclosed space, the enemy composition and your distance to the target and what you’ll end up in if you do decide to approach for some melee strikes or if you’re okay to hang back and plug away at enemies with something less-effective but safer, and all of that under the umbrella of death as a consequence or objective destruction or being kicked out earlier than desired or any combination of bad things that can happen, and if it’s particularly bad it’ll take away the progress you’ve made and leave you with some Affinity and that’s it. You can say the AI works like a seven year old, but it’s not like games in general are using particularly smart enemies, and you can get away with a lot with some basic enemy smarts mixed with mechanics.

You’re also free to ignore all of that and build like you don’t want a fight; the game doesn’t care whether you’re good at it or not, but it’s not going to give you a fight if you’re not looking for one. I see your suggestions that are basically “I want to build like I don’t want a fight, and then I want the game to undo what I’ve done”, which is… so weird

🤔 Although the pylon thing does sound interesting as a mid-mission effect to circumvent

edit: Hm. Thinking about it, a lot of the game is designed around undoing something that’s been done, like Toxin bypassing all the investment into shields. I guess it’s not so weird to have something undone, but there is still an element of weirdness to the idea of expecting the game to completely undermine what a player has built for; Damage Attenuation is kind of like that, and it’s an unpleasant and weird system

[Stafelund]

41 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Exactly. They have the classical issues of finding the paths and navigating the tileset. The AI in Warframe almost predates the PS2 era in some occasions. I've seen enemies running in circles. That alone says a lot. 

I'll see if I can find AI shenanigans on other tilesets too. Afaik Corpus ship is the only one that does this but I vaguely remember Uranus has this too.

36 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You mean react like they’re some kind of general AI, and magically that is what makes a game challenging in a fun way, though I’m not sure how well the demons in Doom would take to acting like humans. I saw your reference to ChatGPT as if it was something we can use in games

Ahh, Doom. If you're talking about classic Doom and not NuDoom the AI there is simple which is to walk towards the player after hearing or seeing them and shoot if the said player has LoS with the monster. Some bits and pieces allow enemies to do stuff like strafe and leap, but I've seen people make advanced stuff that involves one or two unique coding languages. I've seen someone make a code for AI to not beeline towards the player's direction as well as arcing projectiles that will hit the player provided they don't step aside. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, Stafelund said:

Ahh, Doom. If you're talking about classic Doom and not NuDoom the AI there is simple which is to walk towards the player after hearing or seeing them and shoot if the said player has LoS with the monster. Some bits and pieces allow enemies to do stuff like strafe and leap, but I've seen people make advanced stuff that involves one or two unique coding languages. I've seen someone make a code for AI to not beeline towards the player's direction as well as arcing projectiles that will hit the player provided they don't step aside. 

Ah, nah, that sounds pretty cool, but I meant NuDoom. Doom Eternal in particular is pretty nuts; it’s like a moving puzzle game where you gotta use the right attacks at the right times and be in the right positions while keeping track of a lot of stuff like how the situation is going and be at least decently good at aiming, though I’m pretty sure if the enemies in Doom Eternal acted like a human, it would be unpleasantly difficult

[CephalonCarnage]

1 hour ago, Stafelund said:

I've been seeing enemies go "ring around the rosie" on another enemy lately in my spy runs, which looked amusing. I've also seen some who keeps walking into walls. Both happened in the Corpus ship tileset that has an issue with Railjack too. 

Much of that will be due to networking. Ever see enemies jump down from a ledge and then jump back up? That's network issues resetting the position as packets get lost to the host. similarly, an enemy will appear to walk in circiles if its gets reset too. There's a lot of optimisation that has to be done in games like this, where you're trying to keep the state of every enemy in sync across 4 players and the easiest way to do this is a "assume correctness but fallback" method.

Walking into walls shouldn't happen, unless the map layout is broken, and that would be a bug they never noticed.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2023-06-17 at 6:37 PM, Felsagger said:

The video game industry attracts a lot of morons and stupid individuals. The video game industry affects negatively the production of talented individuals. Yes this is a case by case argument that requires further analysis. In general the amount of next level dog feces on a bowl published by AAA developers is just staggering. The industry of cinematography became horse excrement. Star Wars, Predator, Halo series, MCU Franchise, Games of Thrones, Lord of the Rings series could be considered VHS dissected horse excrement up to E.T. levels. The same applies to video games such as 343i Halo Infinite and the abysmal launches of Cyberpunk 77 and Battlefield 2042. 

While I agree for the most part, I dont really wanna bundle all of the new Star Wars or all of the MCU as horse excrement, plus the latest Predator is probably the best after the Arny original, same goes for Hellraiser (even if not mentioned, still from Disney). Come to think of it, there has only been one crap Predator movie (if you dont include AVP), which is the one with Olivia Munn where the kid finds the uhm helmet? That is as much as I can remember from the movie and mostly due to Olivia Munn being hot. Predator 1, 2, Predators and Prey have been solid though.

With Star Wars you really only have 3 horrible products since Disney obtained the rights, and that is the Skywalker movies, while at the same time the TV-Shows aswell as Rogue One have been top notch Star Wars experiences. The one TV-show that was so-so was sadly Boba Fett, but mostly because it felt cheap, in an old Star Trek or Stargate kinda props way. edit: Thinking of the speeder chase sequence in town still cracks me up since it's so #*!%ing poorly done and feels so damn #*!%ing slow.

MCU is all over the place, with some really bad movies, but with some great ones aswell. And it is the same there as with Star Wars, the TV-shows are top notch, with the exception of a few. Even Ms. Marvel was enjoyable, though I'm not remotely close to the target audience. Sadly the worst TV-show out of them all was Moon Knight. And for the MCU movies, the worst have been some of the "core" movies, like Iron Man 3, Infinity War and Endgame, along with Dark World and Eternals. Most of the frenchise is atleast enjoyable to watch, and Captain Marvel could have been a great movie if it wasnt for Brie Larson being a terrible actress and also saying a bunch of stupid nonsense before the movie release. That and they could have kept Mar-Vell as a guy.

As to Halo. I can understand if fans really disliked it. Since I had been detached from Halo for years I enjoyed it, though the helmet removal felt very awkward and out of place. For LotR, while having the foundation to be a good show, the decisions regarding actors, character portrayal and so on really blew it. Warrior Galadriel? Black dwarfs and elfs? 

For video games, not only are they released in shoddy quality, you also end up with games like Battlefield V that spit in the face of veterans and freedom fighters by gender swapping them to fit the agenda of the time, to please people who will never actually pick up and play the game in the first place. Just what they did to the norwegian tales in BFV is a #*!%ing shame.

Still, one of the most screwed up wokywood products right now is Fast X. A franchise that was supposed to stear clear of politics.

[Stafelund]

56 minutes ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Much of that will be due to networking. Ever see enemies jump down from a ledge and then jump back up? That's network issues resetting the position as packets get lost to the host. similarly, an enemy will appear to walk in circiles if its gets reset too. There's a lot of optimisation that has to be done in games like this, where you're trying to keep the state of every enemy in sync across 4 players and the easiest way to do this is a "assume correctness but fallback" method.

Walking into walls shouldn't happen, unless the map layout is broken, and that would be a bug they never noticed.

Does this happen even in solo runs? And I think there's something wrong with the corpus ship tileset in general. In railjack enemies like to huddle around the corner which is really annoying when you're doing survival. 

[Silligoose]

20 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Players don't actually want challenging content to challenge them. They say they do, but in the end all they want is challenging content they can cheese through as before.

If they wanted a challenge that was fun, enjoyable and engaging, they'd create a new account and start over.

in many ways I think this is how DE should manage end-game, allow players to reset their account (keeping plat, slots and other purchases) give a very fancy bit of fashion to mark you out as someone who has done it all and is now doing it again and allow players to experience the progression all over again. You want a challenge, take on the infested with your MR5 vanilla frame without the kuva weapons, 10 forma and the primed mods. You remember, the days when a heavy gunner appeared and you thought "oh S#&$"

Difficulty curves in games tend to be varied as many game developers understand that a lack of challenge leads to boredom and disengagement, whilst too great a challenge leads to frustration and disengagement. This notion that players do not want a challenge is, pardon my crudeness, malarky. Pure malarky!

The suggestion for players to simply reset accounts is out of touch with why seasonal challenges in other games work, as it brings about pure reversion, whilst seasonal challenges in other games, such as Diablo 3, still make players feel as though there is a component of progression, despite restarting.

Seasonal challenges could work in Warfame, but mechanics pertaining to assets (frames, weapons, mods) would need to be addressed to fit with a seasonal challenge.

Now for the big concept that this thread centres around: Games with seasonal challenges still offer challenge to those who approach maximum attainable power, which means even if DE decided to go the seasonal route, they would need to address the laughable late-game balance.

11 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

The AI in Warframe is good. If you didn;t run past nuking everything you'd see them hiding and taking cover. They shoot you from good positions and only a few charge towards you.

The trouble is two fold - one, you never notice this because theyr'e all dead before they have a chance to run the AI routines. two, even if you did, real-world military style manoevers depend on fire suppression, which only works if the target cares about being hit. In warframe, you can stand in front of them and tank those shots. The AI can be performing full fire-and-movement tactics and you still woulnd't even notice because you're standing there without a care for getting hit blasting them as they move to you.

If the enemy bullets took you down with 2 or three hits, you'd notice the AI tactics quite differently.

Perhaps the AI needs to update its combat though, its designed for combat, not terminate units coming at them. If should be a lot more grenades, smoke and claymore mines to take the warframes down as the enemy units run away from you. But I think you'd find that a lot less enjoyable of a game.

I agree with the overall sentiment - Warframe's AI is actually pretty good. It could use some sprucing, but it isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

21 hours ago, Lucas_TKL said:

Man, do you know why will never be a true late game in Warframe? 
Because a lot of Warframe Influencers WILL put a video in youtube named "how to do [late game content] easily"

And then, the content will not be a late game anymore xD that's what happened with Arbitration, Steel Path, Archons...

There is a lategame and there will always be a lategame. It simply lacks challenge.

It lacks challenge due to a lack of balance. Youtubers have little to do with that, as they simply show how to take advantage of certain imbalances and mechanics.

[CephalonCarnage]

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

This notion that players do not want a challenge is, pardon my crudeness, malarky. Pure malarky!

Ah, but you forget that games are designed differently. For example, most games played for fun are indeed as you say. However, some games become more of addiction drivers, and for those, the challenge is an obstacle to overcome to obtain those dopamine loot hits. Challenge here is something to be avoided because it actively interferes with the true gaming experience (tm) of obtaining loot.  Hence all the players with OP meta weapons complaning of even the smallest nerf (eg less ammo!)

This is what many don't understand, while the early game is based around enjoyment and challenge and progression... after a while, all you have is cheeseing your way to more loot. More lootz. Moar!! Few would play SP circuit to test themselves, they play it because of the incarnon adapters. And you can hear the complaints that its too hard with random frames and weapons anyway. They want their cheesy kit to cheese it to get the incarnons quickly. They've become conditioned to this.

and I think many subconsciously don't like it. But rather than blame the true cause, they instead say "its a lack of challenge" (or "true" challenge) which is often meaningless.

 

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The suggestion for players to simply reset accounts is out of touch with why seasonal challenges in other games work, as it brings about pure reversion, whilst seasonal challenges in other games, such as Diablo 3, still make players feel as though there is a component of progression, despite restarting

Maybe you didn't express that well? I say restart, simply because once you have everything, there's nothing else to do, and this encouraged DE to keep on adding more content with more OP weapons to drive you to play it. If you could restart, it would probably be a decent option for most. I play Stellaris, for example, when I conquer the galaxy. I start again. Its not exactly a MMO, but then should they really be different? Play for fun, not as a lifestyle choice you can't stop.

DE isn't going to manage end game balance while they offer ever-more potent kit. And they cannot stop offering ever-more-potent kit because that's the addiction driver that is the basic oif keeping older players returning. Its not a good situation, but it also isn't going away. I did think a new progression based on the new war would have been an ideal opportunity, resetting the balance in ways that cannot be achieved without breaking the early game, but a new war starchart would allow them to do so. But they went for Duviri.. and guess what - it has OP decree power system from the start.

 

I wonder if they will ever achieve balance. But I also think they don't care. more power = more player time = more money. Job done as far as DE is concerned.

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Ah, but you forget that games are designed differently.

I didn't forget. I addressed your incorrect notion.

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Maybe you didn't express that well? I say restart, simply because once you have everything, there's nothing else to do, and this encouraged DE to keep on adding more content with more OP weapons to drive you to play it. If you could restart, it would probably be a decent option for most. I play Stellaris, for example, when I conquer the galaxy. I start again. Its not exactly a MMO, but then should they really be different? Play for fun, not as a lifestyle choice you can't stop.

DE isn't going to manage end game balance while they offer ever-more potent kit. And they cannot stop offering ever-more-potent kit because that's the addiction driver that is the basic oif keeping older players returning. Its not a good situation, but it also isn't going away. I did think a new progression based on the new war would have been an ideal opportunity, resetting the balance in ways that cannot be achieved without breaking the early game, but a new war starchart would allow them to do so. But they went for Duviri.. and guess what - it has OP decree power system from the start.

 

I wonder if they will ever achieve balance. But I also think they don't care. more power = more player time = more money. Job done as far as DE is concerned.

Go look at your own comments and word usage again. You can go look up "reset" and "restart", then go a step further and look up the difference in "hard reset" and "soft reset" as well to broaden your horizons, then apply what I stated within context. If it confuses you, ask your school for a refund and put it towards an online course.. I am not here to teach you English.

Lategame balance can be managed even under conditions in which "ever-more-potent kits" are introduced. Take note that many assets released by DE are not more powerful than what is already available.

At this point DE appears neither inclined to, nor capable of, achieving decent lategame balance. The optimist in me thinks that might change someday, but the realist sees no indications of such at this point.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

 

At this point DE appears neither inclined to, nor capable of, achieving decent lategame balance. The optimist in me thinks that might change someday, but the realist sees no indications of such at this point.

Exactly Goose. We know that DE has no intention to move in this direction. If DE is not interested, believe me, there are lots of other interests out there for us. DE is petering players. They are simply putting this game aside. DE must do something. 

Let me give you an idea with this video of how things are right now: 

Yes, of course we can't trust Bethesda and few of these trailers EXCEPT Spiderman 2. The developer Insomniac ALWAYS delivers. However this will be the panorama to look forward. If we compare the graphics that Warframe has now and these game, Warframe looks like a NINTENDO NES game. You will be generous if Warframe is an IOS PHONE looking game. That would be a gesture of gratitude. 

Of course Skyrim was a COMPLETE success and still is. 

Many of these games doesn't have a great so called end game or late game. But at least the progress and the intrinsic game play of these examples may be satisfactory. I don't see DE having future plans and a good investment in their IP. They need a graphical improvement because the graphics sucks ass. They need an improvement on the AI because their AI sucks ass hard and they need to improve the quality of life in the game removing many bugs because, to be honest, that is really displeasing for the player. 

I know that it is a bit unfair to compare these games but DE is an AAA sized developer with 416 individuals in a building. DE can have a ton of economical support from Tencent and make use of the Unreal Engine. Tencent owns 40 percent of Epic Games. 

We are at this point. For our surprise Battlebit Remastered is becoming a success too. Why? Fun was included in the game. Can we say the same about DE's Warframe latest update called Duviri? No of course. But at least DE must try to raise the bar, at least, in my opinion of course. 

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

I'm having a great time in Duviri so I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

I'm learning more about different frames and weapons than ever before, and adjusting them in order to optimally compete in SP Circuit. It's a great way to refresh and show what our "investments" can do when we actually invest in them.

I've falling in love with Grendel, Amber and Inaros far more than I expected and finally can appreciate Mag and Nyx. This is a 7+ year player telling you I'm loving the content. 

DE did a fantastic job setting up future content thanks to Duviri. The reward structure, Incarnon Genesis system, side quest model, storyline prep, arcanes, decrees and the Circuit are all excellent areas that can be built on and modified to fit all future content. 

Yep, I'm enjoying it very much. 

[Hypernaut1]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I'm having a great time in Duviri so I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

I'm learning more about different frames and weapons than ever before, and adjusting them in order to optimally compete in SP Circuit. It's a great way to refresh and show what our "investments" can do when we actually invest in them.

I've falling in love with Grendel, Amber and Inaros far more than I expected and finally can appreciate Mag and Nyx. This is a 7+ year player telling you I'm loving the content. 

DE did a fantastic job setting up future content thanks to Duviri. The reward structure, Incarnon Genesis system, side quest model, storyline prep, arcanes, decrees and the Circuit are all excellent areas that can be built on and modified to fit all future content. 

Yep, I'm enjoying it very much. 

Duviri is a great system to build off from. It's far better than I expected. DE is by far one of the best devs in the business. There are so many live service games that I wish would innovate and add actual engaging content like DE does with WF at such a consistent and reliable pace too. 

I really wish they wouldn't at least mentored the devs that made Avengers. Could you imagine a marvel game with a new character every 4 months with this much content? It would be crazy. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

On 2023-06-16 at 11:14 PM, 4thBro said:

And by this, I mean, content with max level enemies, and rewards for being able to do this type of content.

 

I don't know if this is going to sound elitist of me... (which is generally the preface of elitist comments, but here we go)

But I get triggered when I see random people sweeping through an Arbitration with an Arca Plasmor, against Grineer (and we all know damn well it's like, pure viral or something), and they have 95% damage done and probably have ZERO survivability... but it's okay. Because it's just Arbies. Even though they were supposed to be hard content, endgame, etc... but they just aren't.

 

I get triggered when it's like... how do I even put it...

I spend so much time planning out my Frames to be able to not just KILL max level armored Grineer, but also be able to handle Corpus (nullifiers) as they are a whole other obstacle type, then also be able to SURVIVE these two factions (and this is relevant because of orokin faction maps), and I look around and it's just like... ... ...

There is NOWHERE to utilize this effort that I put in.

I look around, and it's just Arca Plasmor users (not always literally, but this gun is my meme example) sweeping through a room of Grineer, because everything is so low level that it doesn't matter if you build poorly or plan poorly.

 

Even in the highest starting level content, it's just, "Okay, we're staying 5 minutes then extracting." Because... well, why not, I guess?

And even for those that WANT to fight max level challenging content, NOBODY wants to sit in a game for LITERALLY EIGHT HOURS just to get to it. And then, there's not even a reward for it???

It's just so bizarre. And so frustrating for those that want to be an upper-end gamer. IS THAT ELITIST TO SAY? Honestly... I don't think so. I know many people will see it as such, but I'd have that debate with them.

 

If you want to play casually, nothing is stopping you from doing that.

However, if you want to play on a higher level, the game IS stopping you from doing that. And that's my focus here.

 

If you wanna sweep through low level Grineer with a poor gun choice just because you like it and it makes you feel good, by all means, do that.

But why can't people like me build smart, build strong, and then go test it out and get rewarded if it works?

 

Just ugh, dude.

I dunno. Whatevs, lol. Cheers!

The only real option is to just go sit in steel path disruption forever. Or do SP Circuit.
Hardmode raids coming back when?

[Felsagger]

Rofl,

1 minute ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

 
Hardmode raids coming back when?

 Never. 

DE is not interested on them. DE is interested in the garbage of Duviri. At least they have to stick with it six more months updating and getting rid of the bugs that the average update has. 

[CephalonCarnage]

2 hours ago, Silligoose said:

I didn't forget. I addressed your incorrect notion

No, you just fail to understand. Comprehending that games have different goals and different game designs are obviously lost on you. If you can't tell a F2P game has to be built with a different way of motivating players to pay compared to upfront paid-for games yet think it should be balanced in the same way then you have no clue.

[Mr.Holyroller]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Rofl,

 Never. 

DE is not interested on them. DE is interested in the garbage of Duviri. At least they have to stick with it six more months updating and getting rid of the bugs that the average update has. 

Duviri is amazing. go doompost about your personal preferences in your own thread.
 

[Felsagger]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I'm having a great time in Duviri. 

I've falling in love with Grendel, Amber and Inaros far more than I expected and finally can appreciate Mag and Nyx. This is a 7+ year player telling you I'm loving the content. 

DE did a fantastic job setting up future content thanks to Duviri.  

Yep, I'm enjoying it very much. 

You do NOT believe a single word of what you just wrote here. 

NO ONE BELIEVES you, sorry. 

I know you have a good sense of humor. I give you that. 

1 minute ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Duviri is amazing. go doompost about your personal preferences in your own thread.
 

Sorry that's false. 

How many updates in a short time Duviri had? 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Update_33

Case closed. Next. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

9 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You do NOT believe a single word of what you just wrote here. 

NO ONE BELIEVES you, sorry. 

I know you have a good sense of humor. I give you that. 

Sorry that's false. 

How many updates in a short time Duviri had? 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Update_33

Case closed. Next. 

Duviri has been the most time i've been concurrently active in warframe and the most fun i've had since Railjack's release.
It's a breath of fresh air.
I play with friends so I don't ever encounter any bugs with circuit since that's only an issue people have playing solo dealing with host jank (especially when crossplay is enabled).

I'm also not sure how them working hard to fix bugs is a downside. 

Cry more please