Frost it's just fine right now.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

First I explain my background with the warframe.
Frost is my main since February 4th, 2013. The control/protector concept is what i usually play in every game and this one is no exception. 

The moment Frost was released... how could I explain it... just with the description of his abilities and character stats I already got the idea that he was perfect for me, with the changes that DE has been making over the years i have kept playing frost most of the time (I still do) then i must admit that over the years like everything that it's old in this game, Frost aged poorly but DE has also made changes to his abilities trying to increase his utility in more at the moment and even more so with the latest change to Avalanche. The way of building right now is completely different than 10 years ago.

The only thing I would really complain right now would be his passive (which in the end even with that is pretty good).

 I can say that of all the frost builds I've tried over the years, a full range spam frost is pretty OP right now (i loved).  Frost is the controller par excellence not for himself but for his teammates... Yes, I know that everyone says that Khora is better and blablabla. Khoras is one of the best warframes that exist but it is not the same, Khora can't put in a cc that destroys the armor of everything in its AOE, not to mention the movement reduction (in special enemies) and hard cc (yes, Khora has hard cc to but the cc of frost applies much faster).

Certainly Frost's 1st ability and 2nd ability are not good, although each one has its use... in any case they can still be discarded by a helminth ability.

From what I can tell of this last week playing Frost even to eat soup:

• Soft cc for special enemies (eximus, acolites, etc). 
• Hard cc for anything else.
• Permanent armor disintegration.
• With the necessary amount of health and energy recovery he is technically unkillable. 
• Crit rate and Crit damage maximization.

Definitely an addition to almost any type of normal mission except the old rescue mission and certain open world content.  100% recommended.

I just wanted to say it. so... have a nice rest of the day.

PD: And for those who ask for a complete rework, please don't bother.
PD: Sorry for my poor english.
 

[ant99999]

Frost would be perfect if they made his spheres scalable with enemy levels. Out of all similar defensive abilities his globes are the only one which could be simply walked through, even though the ones with much harder CC like Strangledome are completely invulnerable.

So make it at least Mesmer Skin - like.

 

Edit: ok, perfect is a string world for this case honestly, cause Frost still got his 1 and 2 which need a full rework. But a buff to his 3 would make him much more comfortable to play without spending most of the time on upkeeping his spheres.

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

I will say that If something is loved by someone dearly, there will be someone to protect it. 
 

Since you do enjoy the control/protector concept I feel like you did a good job here presenting your points. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Here is how i feel about Frost right now... If I was going to do a Steel Path Circuit? Then I got Frost, Caliban, Hydroid, Atlas, Loki or Stalker? I am going to take Frost most of the time. I think he is in a decent spot right now, after the changes made to how you can strip armour. Plus there are a lot of fun Decrees in there around Cold that synergise well. Its not like I dislike those other Warframes (I think Atlas, Loki and Stalker are very fun, just maybe not as effective or more weapon dependant, I also think Caliban is decent, I just find him boring to play personally, Hydroid is... unfortunate). Just I think Frost is in a solid spot as a pick. 

Personally I would still like some minor adjustments, but more akin to quality of life and buff changes, not a full rework. Sort of like what a few Warframe have received in the past few years, like not a Grendel style rework, but how the starter Warframes all got buffs, and minor improvements, Nyx got some as well in 2021 I think. Garuda got a few. I'd like something like that for Frost, or something more inbetween. I usually personally tend to compare Frost with Gara rather than Khora, as far as potential, just because I feel like Gara is closer but more subjectively fun. I personally like the synergy more. Like if Frost could use his one to do something cool to his globe? Aside just shattering it? Like if you could pull off sicker more damaging combos with it? Maybe it made ice shards that give Frost a resource that gave him small buffs or something. Still has the same powers/abilities, just increase interactions, synergy, buffs etc 

However I also concede and say all that as someone not that invested in Frost, who has a bunch of Warframes I like way more and use way more. Its not like I need those changes, and I see a lot of Frost advocates and fans that seem happy and content where he is, and may like some small buffs/adjustments but nothing too crazy, which is fair enough! 

(Your use of English is great OP!)

[taiiat]

56 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Certainly Frost's 1st ability and 2nd ability are not good, although each one has its use... in any case they can still be discarded by a helminth ability.

they're only situationally decent with their Augments, without them they are functionally useless. and have been for like half a Decade.
and you can't replace both of them.

Avalanche isn't actually very good either, it's just a generic AoE with a debuff added on. passable since it provides some CC and Frost revolves around CC.

 

i don't want Ice Wave to really be scrapped however, as the Augment is semi-unique in function and could be turned into something good, if it didn't require a Mod Slot, and was designed to be stackable. stack layer and layer of that environmental hazard type Slow. stacking Slows has always been one of the main features of the Warframe anyways, so actualy designing the Abilities to kinda revolve around that would only improve the theme.
could even make them respond to Ice Status so that they can stack in two different ways or something (per use, and per Ice Status - on top of Ice Status being a CC itself).

[ReddyDisco]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

PD: And for those who ask for a complete rework, please don't bother.

really promotes discussion /s

[TheSteelMushroom]

He is useable with full armor strip and the Biting Frost Augment but that doesn't mean we can ignore how pointless his other three abilities are. Of course you can helminth one of them away like any other frame that might have that one off pointless ability. But that still leaves two useless abilities which I don't think that's what anyone wants or even the Devs because they've been reworking frames to give them more uses or synergy for all their abilities. Though even if he's not gonna receive any changes for a long time then I guess people can just stick to that one particular build with huge range armor strip and the Biting Frost Augment and it'll work fine.       

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

All the benefits you mentioned comes from mostly one ability, his 4th. Unfortunately his other abilities are pretty bad. We want improvements for him because he can be a great frame. Great you like him and think he's fine but unfortunately you are in the minority. Also stating half of his abilities are not good is the opposite of being fine.

[Skoomaseller]

just me nitpicking but when people bring up khora it's usually when they're also talking about hydroid, not frost

frost might not need a full makeover but something needs to be done about the near-uselessness of his passive, 1 and 2. I mean for #*!%s sake they introduced Biting Frost, which is already leagues better than his current passive but takes up a mod slot.

his 3 and 4 while ok, could use some touching up as well.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

just me nitpicking but when people bring up khora it's usually when they're also talking about hydroid, not frost

It happens sometimes though. But it really shouldn’t. I don’t get the comparisons. Frost can defend objectives that are exposed with long sightlines, like those on Corpus exterior missions, Earth, or Grineer shipyard. Strangledome doesn’t provide a wall at all. Sure, it can be used for defense. But it’s not going to block bullets or eximi. 
 

For me, Frost is in the good or great tier. He’s the best pick for excavation.  He’s a great pick for mobile defense type missions. And he shines in the Circuit. I do think his 2 needs some work, and so does his passive. But there are frames that need far more attention than Frost. 

[AegidiusF]

Frost is fine, but his second is kind of an AoE version of his 1st (of course, with the Augment, his 2nd is really nice), but my biggest problem with this ability is its description "Sends a wave of razor sharp, crystallized ice toward an enemy, dealing heavy damage" : it's razor sharp ice, but it makes only Cold damage ?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

he needs more offensive options: ideally being able to turn freeze and Ice Wave casts into icicles/ice spikes to deal higher amounts of physical damage. it would also synergize with his 4's armor strip, and allow frost to kill mobs effectively without needing to rely on guns: something he's never really been able to do. also being able to shoot both ways through Snowglobe would go a LONG way. 

his foundations are great, but he needs his kit modernizing a little to become more versatile like modern frames are.

[MutoManiac]

The problem isn’t Frost, but players who put up snow globes on things like intercept mission points thinking they are helping the squad. This just results in you not being able to move and have to stay in the bubble, since you can’t shoot anything inside the globe or see anything from further away.

Not as bad as me leaving right away when there is a Limbo in the squad, but it’s getting there. I mean what are the chances that the Frost or Limbo player actually knows how to play them? In fairness, I don’t either. 🙂

[Silligoose]

7 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Frost would be perfect if they made his spheres scalable with enemy levels. Out of all similar defensive abilities his globes are the only one which could be simply walked through, even though the ones with much harder CC like Strangledome are completely invulnerable.

So make it at least Mesmer Skin - like.

 

Edit: ok, perfect is a string world for this case honestly, cause Frost still got his 1 and 2 which need a full rework. But a buff to his 3 would make him much more comfortable to play without spending most of the time on upkeeping his spheres.

Rejoice Tenno, for Frost's Snowglobe does indeed scale! Much like Iron Skin, there is a brief invulnerability period after casting, during which damage is absorbed and added to Snowglobe's durability 🙂

 

[ant99999]

1 minute ago, Silligoose said:

Rejoice Tenno, for Frost's Snowglobe does indeed scale! Much like Iron Skin, there is a brief invulnerability period after casting, during which damage is absorbed and added to Snowglobe's durability 🙂

I appreciate the humour. However that kind of scaling isn't very helpful for something immobile with a hitbox several meters in diameter, usually placed over a high priority target. That very health it gained from incoming fire for the brief moment of invulnerability is then spent in a similarly brief moment if continued enemy fire.

What I want is for it to actually scale with enemy level. A Mesmer Skin is an example of something that actually scales cause it doesn't depend on enemy level, only on number of enemies.

[Silligoose]

Just now, ant99999 said:

I appreciate the humour. However that kind of scaling isn't very helpful for something immobile with a hitbox several meters in diameter, usually placed over a high priority target. That very health it gained from incoming fire for the brief moment of invulnerability is then spent in a similarly brief moment if continued enemy fire.

What I want is for it to actually scale with enemy level. A Mesmer Skin is an example of something that actually scales cause it doesn't depend on enemy level, only on number of enemies.

Heh the irony here is I wasn't joking. Frost's Snowglobe does actually scale and can work very, very well at all levels of play. Much like Iron Skin, proper tactical play and timing is rewarded to a greater extent: Cast Snowglobe when under heavy fire, allow for the globe to build durability, then use Frost's kit and associated Cold procs to slow down the incoming rate of fire. Do it right and the globe can last multiple times longer. Additional forms of cc would of course increase durability even more.

Mesmer skin's mechanic is OP broken as all hell. In all honesty, nothing should be that strong in my opinion, but I suppose that is a debate for another time.

[ant99999]

13 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Heh the irony here is I wasn't joking. Frost's Snowglobe does actually scale and can work very, very well at all levels of play. Much like Iron Skin, proper tactical play and timing is rewarded to a greater extent: Cast Snowglobe when under heavy fire, allow for the globe to build durability, then use Frost's kit and associated Cold procs to slow down the incoming rate of fire. Do it right and the globe can last multiple times longer. Additional forms of cc would of course increase durability even more.

Great, however I addressed that in my reply. Frost spends a lot of time maintaining his abilities, which on top of that cost a ton of energy for how many times you're supposed to cast them. Where Limbo presses 2 buttons and forgets about it for the duration, Frost runs around constantly having to strategise and deal with enemy fire just so his defense doesn't crumble.

I'll tell you more, the most effective way to play Frost in my experience us to fully utilize all his 4 globes and place them on the anticipated directions of enemy fire to protect the central one. Frost spends most of his time playing some weird tower defense game instead of actual Warframe. But it is fun while it works.

So you're really trying to respond to me with the points I already made. I know how to play Frost believe it or not, it is funny how the go-to attitude on these forums is to assume the other person doesn't know what they're talking about. I just want Frost to have more breething space, away from his abilities.

22 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Mesmer skin's mechanic is OP broken as all hell. In all honesty, nothing should be that strong in my opinion, but I suppose that is a debate for another time.

Should've known some people are allergic to words "Mesmer Skin". Ok, I'll call it percentage damage.

Make enemies deal percentage damage independant of their level to the globe instead of fixed damage. Cause that's what Mesmer Skin functionally is.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 36 minutes, Silligoose a dit :

Heh the irony here is I wasn't joking. Frost's Snowglobe does actually scale and can work very, very well at all levels of play. Much like Iron Skin, proper tactical play and timing is rewarded to a greater extent: Cast Snowglobe when under heavy fire, allow for the globe to build durability, then use Frost's kit and associated Cold procs to slow down the incoming rate of fire. Do it right and the globe can last multiple times longer. Additional forms of cc would of course increase durability even more.

Mesmer skin's mechanic is OP broken as all hell. In all honesty, nothing should be that strong in my opinion, but I suppose that is a debate for another time.

I totally agree with everything !

And we can also make the Snow Globe HP stack with multiple casts while inside the bubble (up to a certain cap).

And I'd like to make a little mention to the fact that this ability is also one of the best damage abilities (if used in a specific way), being able to easily kill any enemy (except Eximus), at any level, if paired with Viral Status and/or Roar : almost a kill-on-cast ability.

[Silligoose]

11 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

Great, however I addressed that in my reply. Frost spends a lot of time maintaining his abilities, which on top of that cost a ton of energy for how many times you're supposed to cast them. Where Limbo presses 2 buttons and forgets about it for the duration, Frost runs around constantly having to strategise and deal with enemy fire just so his defense doesn't crumble.

I'll tell you more, the most effective way to play Frost in my experience us to fully utilize all his 4 globes and place them on the anticipated directions of enemy fire to protect the central one. Frost spends most of his time playing some weird tower defense game instead of actual Warframe. But it is fun while it works.

So you're really trying to respond to me with the points I already made. I know how to play Frost believe it or not, it is funny how the go-to attitude on these forums is to assume the other person doesn't know what they're talking about. I just want Frost to have more breething space, away from his abilities.

Believe it or not you say?

I choose "not".

I was being nice up till I read this last reply of yours and I don't want to be overly mean, but why are you running around trying to protect a globe with other globes and then trying to make this out to be the most effective strategy? Of course using an ineffective strategy such as that is going to lead to you running around playing tower defence trying to maintain all globes😂 

Cataclysm is very powerful, but unlike Snowglobe, players within the Rift can't hit enemies outside of the Rift with their non-innate primary-, secondary- or melee equipped weapons (maybe there is an exclusion with some weapon I'm forgetting).

I didn't assume you didn't know what you were talking about - you literally said Frost would be perfect if they made his globes scalable, despite them already being scalable. My first post simply informed you of that and then went about bringing the inadvertent comedy.

1 hour ago, ant99999 said:

Should've known some people are allergic to words "Mesmer Skin". Ok, I'll call it percentage damage.

Make enemies deal percentage damage independant of their level to the globe instead of fixed damage. Cause that's what Mesmer Skin functionally is.

I'm not allergic to it and I use it when I'm lazy, but that ability is one of the most broken defensive abilities in this game and short-sighted inclusions such as that is why DE can't balance their game. No, Snowglobe shouldn't get the Mesmer Skin treatment.

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I totally agree with everything !

And we can also make the Snow Globe HP stack with multiple casts while inside the bubble (up to a certain cap).

And I'd like to make a little mention to the fact that this ability is also one of the best damage abilities (if used in a specific way), being able to easily kill any enemy (except Eximus), at any level, if paired with Viral Status and/or Roar : almost a kill-on-cast ability.

I still remember how shocked I was when I learned about the offensive potential of Snow Globe 🙂

[Mr.Holyroller]

A lot of Frost's abilities are lacking and his Energy Max Stat is Abyssmal.
There is almost no reason to use 1 and 2 over Avalanche

Here's the Changes I want to Frost:
Passive: Remove Biting Frost as an augment and make it his passive

Freeze: Have Impact Radius affected by range. apply same armor strip value as avalanche otherwise there's no real reason to use this aside from the dmg% augment when Avalanche Freezes and armor strips

Ice Wave: Make the augment a part of the base skill. Come up with a new augment idea. Apply same armor strip or have it strip shields as a counterpart to Avalanch

Snowglobe: Make Snowglobe work like Revenant's Mesmer skin with stacks that decay after damage is taken

Avalanche: This augment is complete trash. Could either make a new augment entirely or have it give you a barrier based on how much armor it strips so that it scales with content


 

[0_The_F00l]

Frost has some specific flaws (energy economy and wasted/redundant abilities ) but these can be patched up with the right build (mods , shards , arcanes) ,the ability can be replaced with a different more suitable one (though i don't like suggesting this), to take him much further than one would expect.

He is very well rounded if built "right" , but can be a major pain to maintain if built "wrong".

He is not for everyone , but for those that can put in the investment it can be pretty potent.

 

With that being said , i have very specific changes i normally recommend if a rework can be done,

1) Merge 2 and 4 for a tap vs hold effect - really 4 does mostly everything 2 does better , the ice wave is a pretty pointless ability in most scenarios. One would be hard pressed to come up with a scenario where it is relevant.

2) a new survival ability for his 2 , something that either adds armor / shields / healing / Icy avalanche effect based on cold procs on enemies in proximity.

3) maybe some lower casting cost (25% reduction of cost) or increased energy pool (an additional 100 energy at base)- either is fine.

 

[BR31]

He's ok , but his 1 and 2 are dead abilities pretty much.
Really rarely people use 1 aug, but it's super rare and the base abitily is bad.
2 is also bad, esp. after overguard changes.

[ant99999]

1 hour ago, Silligoose said:

I was being nice up till I read this last reply of yours

So, that was you being "nice". I suppose you being normal is one of those things on Isolation Vault bounties which increase the toxicity level. Always had that feeling there were Warframe forums involved in that stage.

Alright then, I humbly ask of you, o great and omniscient deity of Frost, for mercy for daring to not play him the way you find valid. I guess all the times I successfully utilized him where I needed him and had fun playing the warframe was just you being kind enough to not smite me and my trash inefficiend build out of existence.

 

I use whatever warframe or any other gear however I find feat. If I'm comfortable with the way I play, then I use my experience from playing it to provide some input in discussions like this one. If tomorrow I find a way to play Frost by slide-kicking everyone, I would also consider that a valid way of playing, and maybe even bring it up on forum discussions.

So please, you don't have the authority to dictate me if I know how to play my builds, that's up to me to decide. Do I know how to play Frost as efficiently as possible? Probably not. Your Frost can a thousand times more efficient than mine. But that doesn't invalidate everyone else's experience with him, but yours.

[Skoomaseller]

6 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It happens sometimes though. But it really shouldn’t. I don’t get the comparisons. Frost can defend objectives that are exposed with long sightlines, like those on Corpus exterior missions, Earth, or Grineer shipyard. Strangledome doesn’t provide a wall at all. Sure, it can be used for defense. But it’s not going to block bullets or eximi. 
 

For me, Frost is in the good or great tier. He’s the best pick for excavation.  He’s a great pick for mobile defense type missions. And he shines in the Circuit. I do think his 2 needs some work, and so does his passive. But there are frames that need far more attention than Frost. 

just realized you can push enemies off the many ledges in the undercroft with his 3

huh, neat