The Seven Crimes of Kullervo: Hotfix 33.5.6

[Styx_Prime]

Nice! 👍

[bl1te]

On 2023-07-07 at 9:38 PM, Halo said:

Took the specific text from it below the link.

I see "guaranteed access to Kullervo" as a fair reasoning. If that was the only statement, I would be cool.

But there is another. What I'm talking about is - in the very same thread, a player quoted this thesis:

Quote

 

Node Requirements:

• (5) Pathos Clamps for guaranteed access to the fight. The Warden needs a little incentive to look the other way. 

 

and asked:

On 2023-06-21 at 4:07 PM, Merrcenary said:

seriously?

to which DE replied:

On 2023-06-21 at 4:13 PM, [DE]Megan said:

We want to ensure that you matchmake with players who have completed at least 1 full Spiral.

You essentially receive the 5 Pathos Clamps back from the mission due to fighting the Orowyrm at the end.

implying that "ensurement that one matchmakes with players who have completed at least 1 full Spiral" is either a true reason for the tax or an additional one.

I do not understand both options and would like further official commentary on it. On this DE's message only.

I do not care whether any other reason for the tax were given. While this one exists, it should be explained. Since, again, solo/invite only modes.

 

In other words:

My question is not "give me a true reason for the tax", but "why did you reason it like that?"

[-Jotunn-KyllerLook-Ymir-]

Thank DE !!

[Solostaran]

I cannot go to the SP circuit right now, something that I've done countless times. And it is not explicitly explained how to unlock it, just some crap explanation and players trying to figure how it works. And nobody should force me to do the Lone Story mode twice for whatever developer reason, only for more content or story details.

Is the development process at DE that uncontrolled? And is community support so lacking that it can't clearly explain the situation (the answer to which has long been given)?

I might need a break. It's no big deal, I've got other games to play.

[Halo]

15 minutes ago, bl1te said:

In other words:

My question is not "give me a true reason for the tax", but "why did you reason it like that?"

Why?

Because players during Joyous and Envy will not have access + Having to wait the 2 hour timer between the different spirals. 

This is solely to expedite the downtime during Joy and Envy Spirals. 

And they're right, you earn 10 clamps upon clearing the entire mission anyway, basically making sure you earn 5 clamps. 

If this doesn't make sense:

Say you have only 5 clamps > You spend those 5 clamps on entering the hold > you then complete the hold as well as the orowyrm fight > you get 10 clamps for completing it. 

There is no loss, only a gain, sure it's a smaller gain than a normal run would give (5 instead of 10, or 10 instead of 15 in steel path), but you still do not lose on anything. 

Is this weird? Yeah.

Is it a bit of a pain? Sure.

Can you also just play the normal spirals on their own and wait for the right ones for his Hold? Yes, which is 100% in your power, albeit having to wait for the right ones. 

I see no reason to continue arguing whether why it was in place when DE literally said it. 

Do you want it in a video format with Rebecca talking about it? That's also available instead of continuously questioning everything when it's there also. 

Video Link (Skip to 15:00 to the start on talk about the Hold): 
 

 

[iPathos]

2 minutes ago, bl1te said:

I see "guaranteed access to Kullervo" as a fair reasoning. If that was the only statement, I would be cool.

But there is another. What I'm talking about is - in the very same thread, a player quoted this thesis:

and asked:

to which DE replied:

implying that "ensurement that one matchmakes with players who have completed at least 1 full Spiral" is either a true reason for the tax or an additional one.

I do not understand both options and would like further official commentary on it. On this DE's message only.

I do not care whether any other reason for the tax were given. While this one exists, it should be explained. Since, again, solo/invite only modes.

You can't approach the wording there with such expectation of predatory reasoning. Under normal circumstances, players would only have Pathos Clamps after having completed at least one spiral - implying they have at least a base level of understanding on how the missions are structured in Duviri. DE also went out of their way to ensure that the tax was only actually deducted after completion, so as to counteract any potential disconnection issues.

Now in this case, players were given another avenue to gather the Clamps needed to start the node so it does somewhat diminish the stated reason of hoping for at least one "experienced player" in every run. However DE also gave us a thematic reason for the cost; bribing the Warden.

Even considering all of this, it's still a net gain per run completion because of the necessary Orowyrm fight - netting 5-10 clamps on top of any Bane you collected.

Not everything has to be "nothing in, everything out" in the game, it rarely is. Prime Parts cost Relics at base, plus traces if you want a bit more granular control of the chances. Rivens require a bare minimum of a challenge completion to use, then there's rank up and rolling costs. Decorations that you don't outright own require either purchase or build materials. Time investment. The list goes on.

Yes, Solo and Invite Only are options. However they're not the only options and if they are it's due to extenuating circumstances outside of the general loop that's clearly intended.

[bl1te]

@Halo @iPathos, guys, I appreciate your detailed inputs, but you absolutely miss the point.

1. DE says: "Tax is there to ensure matchmaking with experienced players"

2. I want to play Solo.

3. Tax is still there.

4. But I won't matchmaking with anyone? I am solo?

5. Why take a tax?

6. Why DE gives such an explanation?

[DualitiesShadow]

And here I thought we had finally turned a corner with duviri and no longer had to normal content that absolutely NO ONE other than new players wants to do to access steel path.

Except now I have to do it three times? Seriously? Had to do it yesterday after the patch, already had done all of them. The thought of having to go all the way through the orowyrm in both modes is exceptionally irritating.... Guess I'm waiting a few weeks to get the incarnons since I wont have time to finish it now.

It's all the more annoying considering that there's literally no reason to do normal to "prepare" for SP since the boss fights are substantially different.

It's called youtube.
People use it.
This is not needed and pisses people off.

 

Just straight up give us access to all SP content if we already have access to all SP content.

[Halo]

11 minutes ago, bl1te said:

@Halo @iPathos, guys, I appreciate your detailed inputs, but you absolutely miss the point.

1. DE says: "Tax is there to ensure matchmaking with experienced players"

2. I want to play Solo.

3. Tax is still there.

4. But I won't matchmaking with anyone? I am solo?

5. Why take a tax?

6. Why DE gives such an explanation?

Again, you're avoiding the answer: 

Pathos Spend on Hold = Play Regardless of Spiral for Guaranteed Hold, regardless with others or alone. 

Don't want to play the Hold-Only mission and not spend clamps? Wait for the right spirals. 

Simple answer / solution. 

[bl1te]

4 минуты назад, Halo сказал:

Again, you're avoiding the answer: 

Pathos Spend on Hold = Play Regardless of Spiral for Guaranteed Hold, regardless with others or alone. 

Don't want to play the Hold-Only mission and not spend clamps? Wait for the right spirals. 

Simple answer / solution. 

I don't know how to make it simpler:

1. DE says: "Tax is there to ensure matchmaking with experienced players"

2. I want to play Solo.

3. Tax is still there.

4. But I won't be matchmaking with anyone? I am solo?

5. Why take a tax? (do not focus on this)

6. Why DE gives such an explanation (see emphasized words in #1)?

[RafMatador22]

56 minutes ago, bl1te said:

I see "guaranteed access to Kullervo" as a fair reasoning. If that was the only statement, I would be cool.

But there is another. What I'm talking about is - in the very same thread, a player quoted this thesis:

and asked:

to which DE replied:

implying that "ensurement that one matchmakes with players who have completed at least 1 full Spiral" is either a true reason for the tax or an additional one.

I do not understand both options and would like further official commentary on it. On this DE's message only.

I do not care whether any other reason for the tax were given. While this one exists, it should be explained. Since, again, solo/invite only modes.

I don't see why an explanation has to be given about this, I don't see any controversy about it, I practically double my stock of Pathos Clamps, there was no damage in my view.

[The_Android]

54 minutes ago, Solostaran said:

I cannot go to the SP circuit right now, something that I've done countless times. And it is not explicitly explained how to unlock it, just some crap explanation and players trying to figure how it works. And nobody should force me to do the Lone Story mode twice for whatever developer reason, only for more content or story details.

Is the development process at DE that uncontrolled? And is community support so lacking that it can't clearly explain the situation (the answer to which has long been given)?

I might need a break. It's no big deal, I've got other games to play.

For me this required playing the full experience, the story only, and then unlocking ALL tiers of the circuit (including the 2 extra "bonus" tiers) before the SP would unlock.

Lucky I guess my previous progress was still there and didn't get cleared/reset.

[m0b1us1]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The Seven Crimes of Kullervo: Hotfix 33.5.6

Small hotfix to address the following priority issues.

 

Fixes: 

• Fixed being unable to trade Arcanes due to them appearing as Mods in the trading UI. 

• Fixed The Duviri Experience node not registering as complete after finishing The Duviri Paradox Quest, which was preventing the other Duviri nodes (Circuit and Lone Story) from being marked correctly. This led to the Steel Path not unlocking or completing for most players (since the intended flow of needing the normal nodes completed first was not being fulfilled). 

  • Since the other nodes were not registering as complete due to the above issue, in order to unlock Duviri on The Steel Path now, you may need to replay and complete The Circuit (complete at least one stage) and Lone Story (complete all stages, including defeating the Orowyrm) on their normal difficulty.  A UI pop-up will occur to generally indicate if any of the normal nodes needs to be completed before The Steel Path can be unlocked for Duviri. An additional change that specifies exactly which node will be coming in the next update.

So basically, you didn't fix the SP circuit bug. Rather DE found a work around and wants the players to do it instead of DE doing their job and fixing the issue.
How about you fix the bug now instead of waiting until next update? Also, nice of you to lie about the bug. If that indeed was the bug, then we would have seen this problem day 1. We have been playing SP circuit for weeks now, and only now did this bug come up. So no, the bug is not with the Duviri Experience node not being completed after finishing the quest.

So not only did you not fix the bug, you also lied about what the bug is.

[iPathos]

17 minutes ago, bl1te said:

I don't know how to make it simpler:

1. DE says: "Tax is there to ensure matchmaking with experienced players"

2. I want to play Solo.

3. Tax is still there.

4. But I won't be matchmaking with anyone? I am solo?

5. Why take a tax? (do not focus on this)

6. Why DE gives such an explanation (see emphasized words in #1)?

I said this to begin with, you're approaching this with far too narrow a view based solely on one blanket statement. 

We understand exactly what you're saying, but what you're saying is heavily based in only taking part of the whole picture.

The rest of the picture is "don't want the tax, don't use the node" because you had that option. 

It doesn't need to be broken down further, it doesn't need to be scrutinized further. This is akin to writing essays on certain novels requiring you to infer meaning from partial or entirely superficial details which don't generally have a deeper, underlying reason or backstory.

Why'd they word it like that? So that it appeals and explains to the widest group possible in as short a time as is appropriate. There's no reason to deconstruct such a surface level statement to the level of utter semantics.

13 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

So basically, you didn't fix the SP circuit bug. Rather DE found a work around and wants the players to do it instead of DE doing their job and fixing the issue.
How about you fix the bug now instead of waiting until next update? Also, nice of you to lie about the bug. If that indeed was the bug, then we would have seen this problem day 1. We have been playing SP circuit for weeks now, and only now did this bug come up. So no, the bug is not with the Duviri Experience node not being completed after finishing the quest.

So not only did you not fix the bug, you also lied about what the bug is.

And the bug is...?

All I see here is "wrong bug, no fix bug, go fix bug" without anything actually describing said bug or your perception of what you think it is.

Be specific or else you do nothing to help players or devs.

[Gaz_TTV]

what happened steel path duviri got locked off? assuming the fix is waste like 45 mins doing these all on normal path (even tho i have  grinded SP duviri like crazy and there is no reason it should be locked off)

[Tonberryc]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• • Since the other nodes were not registering as complete due to the above issue, in order to unlock Duviri on The Steel Path now, you may need to replay and complete The Circuit (complete at least one stage) and Lone Story (complete all stages, including defeating the Orowyrm) on their normal difficulty.  A UI pop-up will occur to generally indicate if any of the normal nodes needs to be completed before The Steel Path can be unlocked for Duviri. An additional change that specifies exactly which node will be coming in the next update.

This is unreasonable. You've rolled back several hours of completed gameplay on accounts that have already cleared the story and normal content. I have no desire to run through the entire lone wolf story and a full normal circuit despite having multiple weapons with incarnon adapters in my inventory and 241/241 on starchart completion.

[m0b1us1]

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

And the bug is...?

All I see here is "wrong bug, no fix bug, go fix bug" without anything actually describing said bug or your perception of what you think it is.

Be specific or else you do nothing to help players or devs.

The bug is that there is something that is blocking off SP circuit. As you can read from the other replies here, despite DE claiming "oh its either the circuit, lone, or experience node not being fulfilled after the completion of the quest", that node completion is not the common factor. What is the exact bug in specific detail? No idea, because although I am a decently strong coder in C++, I do not have the necessary access required to fully figure out what exactly is causing this issue. All we know is that the bug is blocking access to SP circuit, despite us having played it for multiple weeks before now, and based on that it's not tied to the quest. More than likely, the issue is probably tied to the kullvero event being removed and in the process of that, it has soft locked some internal condition for SP circuit to be unlocked, hence why redoing the basic nodes sometimes corrects the bug, while other times not. However that is pure speculation.

I was specific. I specifically stated that based on DE's explanation of what they called "the bug", it obviously isn't. Else we would have seen this error starting from the day duviri was released. That does help because it points out that the real issue does not have anything to do with the quest, so they know to look at other factors. Is that a simple enough of an explanation for you?

[VladYvhv]

Please take a look at this topic and others like it. Kuva liches converted to on-call are not working correctly. This might be something that requires a proper update to fix, but needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

9 hours ago, Mimozzarella said:

MR 30 , not access to steel path duviri lol

MR has no impact on progression, apart from having more gear mastered and more mod capacity.

[UrsinhoBlauBlau]

5 hours ago, Solostaran said:

I cannot go to the SP circuit right now, something that I've done countless times. And it is not explicitly explained how to unlock it, just some crap explanation and players trying to figure how it works. And nobody should force me to do the Lone Story mode twice for whatever developer reason, only for more content or story details.

Is the development process at DE that uncontrolled? And is community support so lacking that it can't clearly explain the situation (the answer to which has long been given)?

I might need a break. It's no big deal, I've got other games to play.

Yes, another fix that needs a fix. just great

[[DE]Momaw]

10 hours ago, ---Magnus--- said:

They tried fixing a bug where some players cannot access Duviri SP content by locking everyone out of Duviri SP content. I Just did a single round of circuit and it's still not unlocking. Don't tell me I have to complete 10 stages of Circuit just to access the SP mode. I will literally uninstall this game.

From the update notes:  "In order to unlock Duviri on The Steel Path now, you may need to replay and complete The Circuit (complete at least one stage) and Lone Story (complete all stages, including defeating the Orowyrm) on their normal difficulty".  You didn't replay The Lone Story, that's what is holding you back.

 

7 hours ago, The_Android said:

For me this required playing the full experience, the story only, and then unlocking ALL tiers of the circuit (including the 2 extra "bonus" tiers) before the SP would unlock.

5 hours ago, Tonberryc said:

This is unreasonable. You've rolled back several hours of completed gameplay on accounts that have already cleared the story and normal content. I have no desire to run through the entire lone wolf story and a full normal circuit despite having multiple weapons with incarnon adapters in my inventory and 241/241 on starchart completion.

Sorry, to be clear, this is not accurate. You only need to complete 1 round and then you can leave as far as marking the map node as completed.

 

 

5 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

The bug is that there is something that is blocking off SP circuit. As you can read from the other replies here, despite DE claiming "oh its either the circuit, lone, or experience node not being fulfilled after the completion of the quest", that node completion is not the common factor. What is the exact bug in specific detail?

If people want an exhaustive run down of what the problem was, here it is:

The game internally keeps track of which map nodes you have Completed. This should be obvious to every Tenno, if they think back to the process of filling out Navigation with filled nodes. In order to play Mars, you need to work your way down through Earth, through the Relay, across Venus, through another relay and then there you are.  Leaving a trial of Completed map nodes behind you that connects you back to the start point. There is a difference between playing a node, and Completing it.

• Bug 1: Playing the Duviri Paradox quest line did not automatically complete the Duviri Experience map node. This means that if you played The Circuit or Lone Experience, they also never got counted as Completed, because they didn't have anything to connect to. You're not allowed to complete map nodes out of order.  It was actually possible to avoid the entire issue by doing The Duviri Experience (normal) first, then the Lone Story and The Circuit (normal), but that's the only way it worked and obviously a lot of people didn't do this.
• Fix 1: Automatically mark The Duviri Experience node as Completed for anybody that has finished The Duviri Paradox quest line. This creates your bridge-head into the Duviri region and allows The Circuit and Lone Story to be Completed when you play them because now they have map adjacency.

 

• Bug 2: The Duviri mission select screen was not preventing people from choosing a mission on Steel Path difficulty when they didn't have the underlying node Completed on normal difficulty. So a lot of people were playing on Steel Path Circuit even though the underlying normal Circuit node- or indeed ANY node in Duviri- never got marked as completed. THIS is why it appeared that there was no problems... Except this resulted in people never getting their completion rewards for doing all Steel Path Duviri nodes. You were able to play the nodes, but they weren't Completing because you didn't actually have proper access to them.

• Fix 2: Change the UI in Duviri mission select to obey the same rules implied everywhere else in the game: You can't play the Steel Path version of a mission if you didn't play the region's Normal difficulty first.

I hope this explains the course of events to your satisfaction. We aren't trying to hide or mislead the community about anything.  Nor are we taking away progression:  That progression was never registered in the first place and we fixed a bug that made the game simply not care about your lack of true progression (and as a result, blocked you from getting your Steel Path trophies). I understand that people are frustrated by this and we can only apologize.  Game development is already very difficult, development of a live game that evolves without ever shutting down is doubly so.

To reinforce: As per the patch notes, to solution to regain access to Duviri's Steel Path difficulty after hotfix 33.5.6, is play and complete The Lone Story and do 1 round of The Circuit, on normal difficulty.

[bl1te]

11 часов назад, [DE]Momaw сказал:

From the update notes:  "In order to unlock Duviri on The Steel Path now, you may need to replay and complete The Circuit (complete at least one stage) and Lone Story (complete all stages, including defeating the Orowyrm) on their normal difficulty".  You didn't replay The Lone Story, that's what is holding you back.

 

Sorry, to be clear, this is not accurate. You only need to complete 1 round and then you can leave as far as marking the map node as completed.

 

 

If people want an exhaustive run down of what the problem was, here it is:

The game internally keeps track of which map nodes you have Completed. This should be obvious to every Tenno, if they think back to the process of filling out Navigation with filled nodes. In order to play Mars, you need to work your way down through Earth, through the Relay, across Venus, through another relay and then there you are.  Leaving a trial of Completed map nodes behind you that connects you back to the start point. There is a difference between playing a node, and Completing it.

• Bug 1: Playing the Duviri Paradox quest line did not automatically complete the Duviri Experience map node. This means that if you played The Circuit or Lone Experience, they also never got counted as Completed, because they didn't have anything to connect to. You're not allowed to complete map nodes out of order.  It was actually possible to avoid the entire issue by doing The Duviri Experience (normal) first, then the Lone Story and The Circuit (normal), but that's the only way it worked and obviously a lot of people didn't do this.
• Fix 1: Automatically mark The Duviri Experience node as Completed for anybody that has finished The Duviri Paradox quest line. This creates your bridge-head into the Duviri region and allows The Circuit and Lone Story to be Completed when you play them because now they have map adjacency.

 

• Bug 2: The Duviri mission select screen was not preventing people from choosing a mission on Steel Path difficulty when they didn't have the underlying node Completed on normal difficulty. So a lot of people were playing on Steel Path Circuit even though the underlying normal Circuit node- or indeed ANY node in Duviri- never got marked as completed. THIS is why it appeared that there was no problems... Except this resulted in people never getting their completion rewards for doing all Steel Path Duviri nodes. You were able to play the nodes, but they weren't Completing because you didn't actually have proper access to them.

• Fix 2: Change the UI in Duviri mission select to obey the same rules implied everywhere else in the game: You can't play the Steel Path version of a mission if you didn't play the region's Normal difficulty first.

I hope this explains the course of events to your satisfaction. We aren't trying to hide or mislead the community about anything.  Nor are we taking away progression:  That progression was never registered in the first place and we fixed a bug that made the game simply not care about your lack of true progression (and as a result, blocked you from getting your Steel Path trophies). I understand that people are frustrated by this and we can only apologize.  Game development is already very difficult, development of a live game that evolves without ever shutting down is doubly so.

To reinforce: As per the patch notes, to solution to regain access to Duviri's Steel Path difficulty after hotfix 33.5.6, is play and complete The Lone Story and do 1 round of The Circuit, on normal difficulty.

If I understood correctly, right now players are expected to complete Normal Duviri nodes in particular order? What is the order?

* Duviri Experience -> Lone Story -> Circuit?

* Lone Story -> Duviri Experience -> Circuit?

You could just publish this info explicitly in the first place.

[Buldozers]

Players: complaining about SP Circuit lock in Duviri.

DE: Oh, You didn't like that? Here, even more SP unlock conditions.

(Was able to play SP Circuit yesterday. Now back to square one.)

[BloodRaevn]

1 hour ago, Buldozers said:

Players: complaining about SP Circuit lock in Duviri.

DE: Oh, You didn't like that? Here, even more SP unlock conditions.

(Was able to play SP Circuit yesterday. Now back to square one.)

We, the community, are playing the video game Warframe. The developers, often, are playing "Destroy their spirit and make them want to quit"

[Roble_Viejo]

On 2023-07-07 at 3:26 PM, [DE]Megan said:

in order to unlock Duviri on The Steel Path now, you may need to replay and complete The Circuit (complete at least one stage)

Not working. 

I guess I will miss the Incarnon Adapters of this week.

 

On 2023-07-07 at 5:19 PM, UltraGuyver said:

Between the EULA and locking us out of SP in the middle of a rotation and making us redo content we already completed a thousand times; these changes, idk...

Not only that, but it is BUGGED

I completed the WHOLE 10 LEVELS 
of Regular Circuit and I still CANT 
play Steel Path Circuit.....

Why did DE made this change? 
Probably to keep players logged in 
as much as possible, like always is

[us5353]

SP Circuit lock - from my opinion Really bad idea from DE side. DE breaks their own rules: if u done normal mode once, SP unlocked. Now u want us to do normal mode every week? Seriously? Just to waste more of our time for doing stuff we don't need and have no reason to do again and again.

 

14 hours ago, Buldozers said:

Players: complaining about SP Circuit lock in Duviri.

DE: Oh, You didn't like that? Here, even more SP unlock conditions.

(Was able to play SP Circuit yesterday. Now back to square one.)

 

12 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Not only that, but it is BUGGED

I completed the WHOLE 10 LEVELS 
of Regular Circuit and I still CANT 
play Steel Path Circuit.....

Why did DE made this change? 
Probably to keep players logged in 
as much as possible, like always is

try to do 1.Lone story normal mode, 2. Duviri experience normal mode 3. Full Circuit normal mode.
That help me and unlocked SP.