Wukong is dumb and stinky and I don't like him

[Xamuswing]

Title

I 100% understand that Wukong is essentially an AFK frame. He has 3 auto-revives, decent armor and HP, a twin that auto-attacks anything in range, healing and status immunity with Cloudwalker, ignores Spy vaults with Cloudwalker, even more bonus armor with Defy, etc, etc, etc. The only ability of his that's fallen behind is Primal Fury, and that's mostly because it still doesn't benefit from Set mods besides Sacrifice. All this combined, he's most likely still the most played frame in the game, especially for most of the normal star chart.

Keyword "normal" star chart, because Wukong is probably the most annoying frame I can come across in any Pub match past Sortie level stuff. He's a complete noob trap. A Wukong provides nothing to the team besides having a Warframe Specter at half power. He lacks any real utility that would actually make him good on Steel Path, especially for Defense / Interception. While he can deny death up to 3 times and has more armor than he'll know what to do with using Defy, not dying in the first place or not needing to rely on limited death defying mechanics is generally a better solution. So many frames can receive 90% or more effective damage reduction while also having abilities for damage, crowd control, support, etc.

Farming is something everyone does at one point or another in WF, so obv having a frame that can either AFK or run the mission fast is good, right? Well yes, he can AFK or blitz through a mission super fast with Cloudwalker- in the normal star chart. Anyone that has bothered to actually complete it however will know the fastest and most effective way to farm is generally on the Steel Path, either for Essence which can be spent on Kuva, Relics, or any other offering on Teshin atm, or straight up better resource and mod drops in a good 90% of missions that require it. Conjuction Survival and Mirror Defense basically require you run Steel Path in order to get each of the warframes and arcanes in less than a month's time. The only missions Wukong is optimal for (and doesn't get out preformed by any other frame) are Spy and Sabotage, and only bcus you can ignore a vast majority of the obstacles in each. Woopty-f*ckin-doodles, I'm so glad my Ivara Chassis is faster to get now.

Obviously other frames are in a much worse spot than Wukong, and me ranting here will change nothing bcus people still like using him. He's probably gonna top usage again in 2023, but I think he's objectively bad. Unpopular opinion, I'm very aware.

[NinjaZeku]

34 minutes ago, Xamuswing said:

I 100% understand that Wukong is essentially an AFK frame.

I mean, no?

You can play him in a lazy way I guess, but you certainly don't have to,
nor are you penalized or anything for being more active with him, quite the opposite.

34 minutes ago, Xamuswing said:

A Wukong provides nothing to the team besides having a Warframe Specter at half power.

You could give one of the most OP defensive buffs in the game to your Squad - invisibility.

34 minutes ago, Xamuswing said:

He lacks any real utility that would actually make him good on Steel Path, especially for Defense / Interception.

Additional offense helps in Defense (since you win the mission by killing) as might drawing enemy attention via Defy,
mobility plus mass CC via the Celestial Stomp Augment (with high Range) should be useful enough in Interception.

34 minutes ago, Xamuswing said:

The only missions Wukong is optimal for (and doesn't get out preformed by any other frame) are Spy and Sabotage

So, unlike many, many other Frames, he actually is the definite META choice for multiple mission types, is what you're saying.

... ye, somewhat just playing devil's avocado for the lulz here, Wukong certainly isn't perfect or anything,
I very much would like more (innate) Squad support options not least, but he's just not a lazy / boring Frame unless you play him that way.

Not least including Helminth, you have a bunch of options to find your own personal playstyle that just feels good to you.

Edited July 23, 2023 by NinjaZeku

[Pakaku]

The whole free specter, cloud walker, and death immunity made him a very boring warframe.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Xamuswing said:

He's a complete noob trap.

He is an EXTREME noob trap, 100% agree. 

Three auto-revives, invis that ignores spy vault lasers, exalted staff that ignores sortie weapon restrictions, they promote some AWFUL habits in new players.

[MaxTunnerX]

Wow how about you mind your own business and dont bash a frame that other people like? Besides, you have no idea what AFK means. There is very little wukong can do while AFK because of all the anti-AFK protection. Just for your info, wukong clone doesnt even work when youre AFK. Wukong is a very active frame that helps you in most mission types and makes your life easy. If you dont like that, play something else.

[Stafelund]

You're late to the Wukong AFK party. The clone consumes ammo now and was that bad before. The specter ammo nerf lessened wukong users.

[RLanzinger]

There a few frames I don't like playing :

• Nidus, 'cause [DE] have done a too much good job on his creepyness level. NEVER BUILD ONE.
• Nezha, 'cause my fav' lil' cutie is NOVA... I've build the variant and prime. As play him as support but I found it a bit blank ...
• WUKONG : As an early player I'm accustomed to 1-2 revives per day and now I've got 6 revives per mission (4 bases + 2 arcanes).
  • The 3 extra lives passive upon my 6 extras + Void auto revives make his passive USELESS
  • Most his abilities are dedicated to low level/new players, twin auto-assist, cloud for lying from a battle, defy-cheat-code-time. Personnally, even If I am a very bad shooters, it's a bit too much assist.

 

I don't play Wukong because it's a very lazy low level of gameplay based on too much assist and my style of gameplay make thoses abilities not being usefull :

• Who need a copy of your own build, when you have armies of SPECTERS with another of abilities and weapons of your choice ? Not me
• Who need to flew from battle when a ninja can jump 80m in one go ? or void dash at the end of the map
• Who need a very little few immunity time + 1500 armor... only 1500 for 30s... some mods do a better jobs

His most AFK abilities was the twin that got "re-quilibrated" because infinite ammo+AoE weapons was a pain for all others, and that was very good fixed.

 

Basically

-The 8 Originals warframe are the MOST specialized and by consequence the most powerfull; they are the high tier of gameplay, the ones that need skills

-Wukong, Nezha was made as china's starter frames so the are Classic Low tier type of gameplay, the ones that does not need skills.

 

This the difference with Warframe : a high tier give more with more skills. a low tier won't go so far even with skills (may be with more firepower but i's a bias a lot player have, so don't bother me with "my wukong can go in SP for hours"; try do it with no mods weapons and we will speak about it... ).

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Conjuction Survival and Mirror Defense basically require you run Steel Path in order to get each of the warframes and arcanes in less than a month's time.

Depends on your luck & hours of play per day. I calculated that one frame (I don't know which one) would take me solo normal mode 10 hours WITHOUT SINGLE DROP. And they increased drop chance of one mode.

Arcanes can have longer acquisition time but it doesn't have to be month, I think.

2 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

2 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

I 100% understand that Wukong is essentially an AFK frame.

I mean, no?

You can play him in a lazy way I guess, but you certainly don't have to,
nor are you penalized or anything for being more active with him, quite the opposite.

I guess it's like Mesa where you can just stand (or move slowly with augment) and kill everything with Peace. I've been leveling Mesa in some random low level node and I could do "move & shoot style" (go to some location, activate Peace for short time and repeat). It's much more active (but of course not the high of non-afk style).

However some ability(ies) makes it into afk style because you cannot really control it. What you do with Twin? You can just switch gun<>melee. It's essentially "more damage/cc". It's still better than something like Xaku. Because his 4th incentivize long duration (as in keeping ability all the time), you put stuff like Gaze, GoL, Void buff and just let enemies die from GoL. You want other style? You can disarm enemies (not as good as it was) with GoL but it basically prohibits you from use of 4th. Except 1st, abilities have short duration. In addition Accused enemies can be killed so it's better to really on afk GoL.

59 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Just for your info, wukong clone doesnt even work when youre AFK.

Attack (or maybe even move, I don't remember) every 30 second. That's your afk prevention. I don't remember if they put anything new since my last play in team.

 

22 minutes ago, RLanzinger said:

so don't bother me with "my wukong can go in SP for hours"; try do it with no mods weapons and we will speak about it...

I bet some madman will even go with Sunpoint laser (mine gems & co) and be fine in SP... somehow.

[(PSN)IdoThea]

I mean I'm not a huge Wukong fan neither but if you don't like him why he bothers you or players who choose to play him?

You cannot really AFK in Warframe because there's systems that detect it like if you don't move around you don't get rewards etc. 

He can zoom around fast but how's that bad thing? usually players rush missions when opening relics etc. because they want to open many as possible quick.

If you want to take your time there's option to play solo. That's what I do when I want to play on my terms and pace. You cannot expect players on public know the way you like to play or even command them to play way you play.

[MutoManiac]

Hey look, an anti-Wukong thread, been a while. Nothing like reading about Wukong from people who can’t play Wukong in SP and blame him since they can’t survive on their own. You know what Wukong contributes? He revives you all the time cause you are always dying.

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

I don't like his feet therefore I can't play with him...stupid, I know but it's true 

[ZarTham]

8 hours ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

Hey look, an anti-Wukong thread, been a while. Nothing like reading about Wukong from people who can’t play Wukong in SP and blame him since they can’t survive on their own. You know what Wukong contributes? He revives you all the time cause you are always dying.

[L3512]

19 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

A Wukong provides nothing to the team besides having a Warframe Specter at half power.

Warframe is not a team game and even if it was at worse Wukong is neutral and not an active hindrance like a lot of frames.

 

19 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

So many frames can receive 90% or more effective damage reduction while also having abilities for damage, crowd control, support,

Nidus with an Augment, Nekros with an augment, Baruuk, Nova, Mesa, Citrine, Gara with both Ember and Gauss being gimmicky.

That's 9 out of 53 warframes, from a "team play" perspective, Nidus, Baruuk, Ember and Gauss are no better than Wukong.

[Xamuswing]

21 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

... ye, somewhat just playing devil's avocado for the lulz here, Wukong certainly isn't perfect or anything,

I very much would like more (innate) Squad support options not least, but he's just not a lazy / boring Frame unless you play him that way.

Not least including Helminth, you have a bunch of options to find your own personal playstyle that just feels good to you.

While you can play him in a more active way, and the game certainly benefits when you do, I still feel he encourages lazy play. He doesn't need a super extensive retooling again, but having better team synergy or options for better support would be nice. His augments can be used, but I see virtually no player actually have them equipped for their teams. It's all focused on the Celestial Twin and maybe an armor strip or Gloom. Those together make him extremely easy to watch a movie in the background while you farm XYZ resources without a care in the world. (Whether or not DE should fix the farming problems is another discussion entirely)

I didn't mention Helminth simply because I feel that's a bad solution to the problem of a bad kit. Warframes like Valkyr or Inaros are defined by one ability they do well, and not much else. Helminth isn't going to magically fix them when multiple abilities don't adequately work in the modern day.

20 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Wow how about you mind your own business and dont bash a frame that other people like? Besides, you have no idea what AFK means. There is very little wukong can do while AFK because of all the anti-AFK protection. Just for your info, wukong clone doesnt even work when youre AFK. Wukong is a very active frame that helps you in most mission types and makes your life easy. If you dont like that, play something else.

I'm allowed to voice my opinion on whatever tf I want. I think Wukong is poorly designed and encourages lazy play. Feel free to disagree, and I will play something else. I have for years.

Also, yes, the specter does work when going afk. Shoot once every 10 seconds or press W, there you go, you won't get booted from the mission or it's rewards.

19 hours ago, Stafelund said:

You're late to the Wukong AFK party. The clone consumes ammo now and was that bad before. The specter ammo nerf lessened wukong users.

Yeah, fair, he sees less use now, especially in places like Steel Path Circuit. I'm very slow voicing any complaints.

18 hours ago, (PSN)IdoThea said:

He can zoom around fast but how's that bad thing? usually players rush missions when opening relics etc. because they want to open many as possible quick.

If you want to take your time there's option to play solo. That's what I do when I want to play on my terms and pace. You cannot expect players on public know the way you like to play or even command them to play way you play.

Going fast isn't the problem. I already stated he can complete missions fast if he needs to. "Going fast," however, is a much bigger struggle on SP, which is where the most optimal grind spots are. If you don't have any damaging abilities (which Wukong really doesn't, especially not for the enemies you encounter on SP) or have an especially high damage set-up (which Wukong needs Helminth for), grinding on SP is a complete nightmare. Gauss can run through short missions just as fast with much stronger damage and damage mitigation abilities. Volt is better for raw speed and damage. Titania is better than both of them. The only mission type Wukong is 100% optimal for relic opening is Spy, which is generally not good for relic opening in the first place.

Not everything needs to be balance for SP, but there is a serious discrepancy between SP viable warframes and not. Generally, SP viable requires a frame have access to either armor strip or an absurdly high damage bonus, a decent survivability tool, and a good form of CC (good enough damage can be a viable form of CC). I feel Wukong lacks any of this.

11 hours ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

Hey look, an anti-Wukong thread, been a while. Nothing like reading about Wukong from people who can’t play Wukong in SP and blame him since they can’t survive on their own. You know what Wukong contributes? He revives you all the time cause you are always dying.

Cope harder. Anyone can revive on SP easily enough with use of operator, being a beast with a sh!t brickhouse defense, or any modicum of good CC. I don't need 3 free revives or to abuse shield gating in order to survive.

2 hours ago, L3512 said:

Warframe is not a team game and even if it was at worse Wukong is neutral and not an active hindrance like a lot of frames.

Warframe is a team game. You are set to Public by default when you start playing. You are actively encouraged to build clans and co-operate with fellow players. You have entire warframes dedicated to team support like Octavia, Trinity, or Wisp. A vast majority of missions are not only easier, but built with having multiple party members in mind. Having a warframe that essentially acts solo from the rest of the party is a hindrance to a team game. Like I said earlier in this post, Wukong can be played for support in mind, but a vast majority of players I've seen don't.

2 hours ago, L3512 said:

Nidus with an Augment, Nekros with an augment, Baruuk, Nova, Mesa, Citrine, Gara with both Ember and Gauss being gimmicky.

That's 9 out of 53 warframes, from a "team play" perspective, Nidus, Baruuk, Ember and Gauss are no better than Wukong.

Nidus has Parasitic Link that boosts Power Strength with an ally by 25% at base and stacks multiplicatively with additional Power Strength. Larva is an amazing grouping ability, and Ravenous will regenerate HP for every ally standing in the area.

Baruuk has both Lull, a mass sleep CC with a very generous range and duration, and Desolate Hands, a 90% DR that can be transferred to his allies and disarms opponents. Serene Storm, the best exalted weapon, to Primal Fury, the worst, is such an unfair comparison that it borders on lunacy.

Ember lacks a lot of team support that other warframes have, but you know what she can do? Damage. A lot. She is one of the best DPS frames in the entire game with a super easy to access armor strip, a fire based AoE that just gets better the more enemies are grouped up, and an option for up to 45% DR to her allies if using the augment. It's not commonly run, but it's certainly a viable option. I run it myself.

Gauss... is not a team player, no. However, he gets significantly stronger buffs to his weapons, a full armor strip, and 100% Damage Reduction to most damage types. He is significantly stronger than Wukong as an individual.

Wukong, by comparison, only gets an invisibility buff to his allies, and only if he's augmented to do so. I have literally never seen a Wukong player use this augment in a Pub match. Octavia grants Invisibility that lasts 15 seconds, which the same time Wukong's cloud walker can give; this doesn't require an augment. Ash also can give the team invisibility, along with a 150% multiplicative crit chance buff, tho again, this is augment only.

I don't want Wukong removed from the game. I want him to be better.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, Xamuswing said:

I'm allowed to voice my opinion on whatever tf I want. I think Wukong is poorly designed and encourages lazy play. Feel free to disagree, and I will play something else. I have for years.

Also, yes, the specter does work when going afk. Shoot once every 10 seconds or press W, there you go, you won't get booted from the mission or it's rewards.

I don't want Wukong removed from the game. I want him to be better.

If were here "voicing our opinions", then let me just tell you that wukong is not the one dumb here, its you. Clicking every X seconds is not AFK. Woops, I accidentally said facts instead of opinions but that happens sometimes. And no, you dont want to make wukong better, You want to nerf him even more than he already got nerfed because you jelly or maybe you feel threatened by people doing what you do except more easily. And the nerve you have to call wukong an AFK frame when there are frames that can go AFK for much longer like nekros and mirage, that only need the click every 5 minutes to prevent losing mission rewards compared to every 30 secs with wukong is astounding.

Edited July 24, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[(PSN)IdoThea]

3 hours ago, Xamuswing said:

Going fast isn't the problem. I already stated he can complete missions fast if he needs to. "Going fast," however, is a much bigger struggle on SP, which is where the most optimal grind spots are. If you don't have any damaging abilities (which Wukong really doesn't, especially not for the enemies you encounter on SP) or have an especially high damage set-up (which Wukong needs Helminth for), grinding on SP is a complete nightmare. Gauss can run through short missions just as fast with much stronger damage and damage mitigation abilities. Volt is better for raw speed and damage. Titania is better than both of them. The only mission type Wukong is 100% optimal for relic opening is Spy, which is generally not good for relic opening in the first place.

I never use SP for farming because I don't find it fun. Enemies are kind of bullet spongy and toxin damage can almost one shot.

I mainly run SP nodes fast as possible to complete them. Though I'm not Wukong user.

went kind of off topic there but just let players enjoy frames they enjoy.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

Leave him alone he has been through enough 

[Volkner]

Why don't you blame the Revenant in this case? The situation is absolutely the same with him, an absolutely useless warframe in the party that does nothing but himself, yes, don’t mention the disco ball, this laughingstock does not damage sp. This frame began to appear quite often after the release of the prime version, especially on all kinds of Defenses and Interceptions. Same situation with frames like Gauss, Kullervo, Baruuk, etc.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 3 heures, Volkner a dit :

Why don't you blame the Revenant in this case? The situation is absolutely the same with him, an absolutely useless warframe in the party that does nothing but himself, yes, don’t mention the disco ball, this laughingstock does not damage sp. This frame began to appear quite often after the release of the prime version, especially on all kinds of Defenses and Interceptions. Same situation with frames like Gauss, Kullervo, Baruuk, etc.

^This.

Revenant is by FAR the worst offender, miles before the likes of Wukong or, dare I say it, Inaros.

If I'm hosting steel path circuit and I'm seeing three revenants, Margulis' soul be blessed, I'm sending three tenno straight to the host migration screen. Hate me for it, I don't care, if I have three leeches casually waiting around for the mission to be done, I might as well just turn on solo mode.

And the worst part is it's not even a case of mastery ranks either. I see other fellow legendary 3 players take him on missions with their whole 33 deficient brain cells have only "0% damage taken" as their most notable performance.

 

Wukong at least contributes in a way thanks to a free aimbot following you around.

 

Thankfully when it's his time to be in the prime vault, we won't see him nearly as often, just like how you see far less Inaros standing still in your squads nowdays, since both of those frames have relatively annoying farms for their standard counterparts.

 

I pray every month we get a deep look into how they'll finally nerf the crap out of Mesmer Skin (0.2s per stack should do the trick, wink wink).

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

If I'm hosting steel path circuit and I'm seeing three revenants, Margulis' soul be blessed, I'm sending three tenno straight to the host migration screen. Hate me for it, I don't care, if I have three leeches casually waiting around for the mission to be done, I might as well just turn on solo mode.

That seems pretty harsh.  My #1 pet peeve in SP Circuit is people who don't try to contribute, but I don't see Rev players having an unusual tendency for that.  #2 is players who die constantly, and any Rev who isn't afk isn't having that issue.  #3 is certain hard CCs when poorly used that can outright hinder stage completion.  Again, not a Rev problem.

My only complaint about Rev there is that  many don't use his Mesmer augment.   But he's not prone to getting in the way at least.

I am not a fan of the frame and I really dislike the way Mesmer is balanced.  But that's on DE.  

[NinjaZeku]

16 hours ago, Volkner said:

Why don't you blame the Revenant in this case? The situation is absolutely the same with him, an absolutely useless warframe in the party that does nothing but himself

Really can't agree on this now after he got the Mesmer Shield Augment,
because that is one hella nice Squad protection buff (that just makes my Icy Avalanche Frost weep, buff pls).

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

(that just makes my Icy Avalanche Frost weep, buff pls)

Icy Avalanche will actually recieve a 0.5 seconds "shield gate", this has some people hyped it seems.

Of course it compares quite unfavourably still to Mesmer Skin, giving the entire team 5x 1 second "shield gate".

[(NSW)HydroidPrime]

An augment that would sacrifice the extra lives and buff some other stats could be interesting. I don't use wukong too much anymore, he is nice to quickly solo sortie spy I will say.

[CatboyPrincess]

wukong is very cool. i never really liked playing him but when i finally decided to give him a try, i realized he plays like a crazy twitch space ninja shooter character.

i only gave him rolling guard and arcane trickery for defence.

u hav 2 b 2 fast & 2 furious 2 survive.

the real noob trap is putting hp or armor or umbral mods on him.

[Volkner]

5 часов назад, NinjaZeku сказал:

Really can't agree on this now after he got the Mesmer Shield Augment,
because that is one hella nice Squad protection buff (that just makes my Icy Avalanche Frost weep, buff pls).

Not one Revenant has used this augment in the last time of my games, not in a circut not in a steel path, even a dozen came across with a roar, but not one with a shield mesmer.