Could you buff Wukong's Twin? Just a little bit.

[Valfaun]

To be completely honest, I haven't played Wukong since his Twin got nerfed, but I recently gave him another chance because at the end of the day, his Twin is still fun to have around. 

But I think his Twin could be made better and a bit more unique without making him broken again.
I don't mind that he uses your ammo pool when firing his weapons, dual wielding Brammas with infinite ammo was indeed a bit broken. I don't even mind that he has a 0.5x damage multiplier on unmarked targets, even though the On Call Railjack crew member deals full damage, as far as I know. 

Here are a few opinions and ideas for improvements, though:

• Enable the Twin to trigger the effects of Galvanized mods. I know, that would be an effective damage buff, but would it really be that bad? Again, the generic On Call crew already deals double the Twin's damage unless you specifically mark an enemy for death. Plus, "Elite" crew members have access to some unique perks that give them further enhanced combat efficacy. "Increase Critical Damage by 300% while Health is below 50%", "+150% Critical Chance bonus with Rifles/Pistols" or "Killing an enemy heals all nearby allies by 500 over 10 seconds". Those are pretty powerful boosts. Yes, the On Call crew only stays with you for a limited time before triggering a cooldown, but Wukong's Celestial Twin is kind of his calling card and his whole appeal. I just feel like it deserves a bit of a boost. 
• Allow us to set the Twin to "Guard Mode". Just like the On Call crew and other NPC allies can be stationed somewhere to guard a spot. It would be pretty neat if we could command the Twin to defend an Interception point, for example. Although that would probably mean that the Twin's gimmick of switching between ranged and melee depending on what you're using yourself would have to go, since he'd be kinda useless defending a point with a melee weapon. Well, he's kinda useless with a melee weapon in general, unfortunately, due to the AI's inability to perform stance combos and stuff. 
• Further improve the Twin's aim. Minor complaint, admittedly. He's usually pretty good with most guns, except ones with arcing projectiles, limited range or non-standard firing modes, such as charging or alt-fire. But sometimes the Twin's aim is just way off for some reason and his shot goes into the ceiling instead of the enemy in front of him. Would be nice if that could be ironed out. Unfortunately I don't think DE can make him function properly with melee weapons, sadly. But maybe allowing him to at least use Heavy Attacks would be possible?
• Allow us to set "targeting precepts". What I mean with that is, make the Twin prioritize certain targets on his own. For example, attack Heavy units before fighting Light ones, e.g. Infested Ancients before Chargers. Could maybe be implemented by cycling his first ability through a selection of priority precepts. Would mostly be a QoL change so you don't have to manually set priority targets for him all the time. 

It's not my intention to turn Wukong's Twin into a complete "Idle Mode", I'd just like for him to be a bit more... special. As mentioned before, the Twin is Wukong's signature ability, after all. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Valfaun

[.Fire_Fly.]

Allow us to set the Twin to "Guard Mode"

 

I love this idea the most that would add alot of fun to him!

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Undo the Ammo Usage and 1/2 Damage Nerfs

change the AI so that Clone only attacks enemies you are aiming at -Just like Citrine's #3

 

This solves the AFK junk that was pissing everyone off, making it an actively guided ability instead.

-and at that point the ammo nerf is unneeded, considering its essentially the same as Mirage HoM, which doesn't consume ammo

[MaxTunnerX]

Im a wukong main, and this post made me so stressed. Holy hell dont ask for so many buffs when devs couldnt even keep him the way he was before. As for me, Id like to see the ammo consumption gone, and in return make the clone continually eat energy, just like ivara invisibility, so you cant rly have him out forever unless you do something very specific. Right now he eats no energy and stays forever if nothing kills him by default, no effort.

Edited August 25, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[BroDutt]

Undo all the nerf and make him like Venari (Prime), and can't be summon until 120s countdown. 😅

[(PSN)IdoThea]

48 minutes ago, BroDutt said:

and can't be summon until 120s countdown. 😅

that only happens when Venari dies.

[Raarsi]

Honestly, I'd say undo the damage nerf and make the clone only use the Iron Staff.  At least let him be more appropriate to his source material.

[vixenpixel]

Why not just let wukong's twin's damage scale with ability strength?

[Valfaun]

On 2023-08-25 at 9:00 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Undo the Ammo Usage and 1/2 Damage Nerfs

change the AI so that Clone only attacks enemies you are aiming at -Just like Citrine's #3

 

This solves the AFK junk that was pissing everyone off, making it an actively guided ability instead.

-and at that point the ammo nerf is unneeded, considering its essentially the same as Mirage HoM, which doesn't consume ammo

The Twin only attacking enemies you're also attacking would be... interesting. Personally I wouldn't like that, though, since most enemies in content that we normally run tend to have a very short life span. I like having the Twin around to autonomously help me clean up mobs while I'm engaged in melee combat. Also wasn't the AFK problem already solved by the Twin ceasing to attack after a short period of player inactivity?

On 2023-08-25 at 9:31 AM, MaxTunnerX said:

Im a wukong main, and this post made me so stressed. Holy hell dont ask for so many buffs when devs couldnt even keep him the way he was before. As for me, Id like to see the ammo consumption gone, and in return make the clone continually eat energy, just like ivara invisibility, so you cant rly have him out forever unless you do something very specific. Right now he eats no energy and stays forever if nothing kills him by default, no effort.

No need to get stressed, nothing will come of these threads anyway, unless maybe lots of people keep asking about something. I'm not sure if I'm asking for "many buffs" here... The first point aside, it's more just... QoL stuff. I still maintain that the Twin's ammo consumption is fine, it only really matters with heavily limited AoE weapons, which are a thorn in DE's side these days in general. Lifting that restriction and letting the Twin indiscriminately blast everything with an unlimited Bramma or Zarr again would be OP unless his AI got chained in some way. But your suggestion of making the Twin continually drain Energy sounds acceptable if we got damage buffs in return. But only then. I just don't think the Twin is good enough to get nerfed any further, he's pretty much all that Wukong has going for himself. 

On 2023-08-26 at 8:27 AM, Raarsi said:

Honestly, I'd say undo the damage nerf and make the clone only use the Iron Staff.  At least let him be more appropriate to his source material.

But the Twin is pretty bad with melee weapons. He just walks around, melees once, repositions himself, repeat. No combos, no consideration for melee range, no heavy attacks or anything else that makes melee good. Limiting the Twin to that existence would be too much of a nerf just for 100% damage output, I think... As mentioned before, the On Call Railjack crew already outperforms the Twin as is. 

On 2023-08-26 at 12:50 PM, vixenpixel said:

Why not just let wukong's twin's damage scale with ability strength?

Wukongs tend to run high Strength builds, I think, so letting the Twin's damage scale might be a slippery slope unless the scaling was as inefficient as Nova's Null Star. But that aside, DE made the decision to half the Twin's damage for a reason and I respect that (for the most part). I'd rather see more sophisticated upgrades to the Twin, something to make him stand out as an ally

[MaxTunnerX]

42 minutes ago, Valfaun said:

he's pretty much all that Wukong has going for himself. 

Thats not really true tho. The most OP skill is actually the cloud walker, especially when combined with the twin, and then you also have the primal staff that has 150% crit chance. Defy is just there so you can helminth something better. 3/4 is a very decent frame actually.

Edited September 2, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[Valfaun]

1 minute ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Thats not really true tho. The most OP skill is actually is the cloud walker and then you also have the primal staff that has 150% crit chance. Defy is just there so you can helminth something better. 3/4 is a very decent frame actually.

Cloud Walker? How so? Because it briefly stuns enemies you pass by and opens them to finishers? I guess you can use it like that, true. 

I thought the general consensus was that the Iron Staff sucks. I actually replaced it with Tharros Strike because I hated its Stance combos. 150% crit chance alone doesn't make a melee weapon good, I don't think... The Staff only has an average crit multiplier and doesn't have access to the ever popular Bloodrush either. The Strength-scaling base damage is great, but... idk. I feel like some normal melee builds, especially with decent rivens, would be able to outperform the Iron Staff. But I admit, I'm not an expert on melee by any means, so maybe the Staff is better than I give it credit for

[MaxTunnerX]

58 minutes ago, Valfaun said:

Cloud Walker? How so? Because it briefly stuns enemies you pass by and opens them to finishers? I guess you can use it like that, true. 

I thought the general consensus was that the Iron Staff sucks. I actually replaced it with Tharros Strike because I hated its Stance combos. 150% crit chance alone doesn't make a melee weapon good, I don't think... The Staff only has an average crit multiplier and doesn't have access to the ever popular Bloodrush either. The Strength-scaling base damage is great, but... idk. I feel like some normal melee builds, especially with decent rivens, would be able to outperform the Iron Staff. But I admit, I'm not an expert on melee by any means, so maybe the Staff is better than I give it credit for

Cloud walker because it lets you literally fly around the map and pretty fast too + it allows you to go through spy lasers + it staggers enemies + it makes you immortal for the duration + it removes any status effects so you can spam it + it heals you and your clone while it lasts + it also makes your clone immortal so you can be permanently in cloud walker mode while your clone kills everything. So yeah, pretty OP to me. As for the iron staff, last month I saw a wukong totally shred steel path circuit with wukong, and it was specifically thanks to the iron staff and its augment. If you know how to build it its an absolute beast, especially in circuit where you have decrees which are mostly for melee weapons.

Edited September 2, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[MutoManiac]

On 2023-08-26 at 6:50 AM, vixenpixel said:

Why not just let wukong's twin's damage scale with ability strength?

What? It doesn’t scale with ability strength? I thought it did, so I’m going to relearn and rework my Wukong build if it doesn’t, so thanks for bringing that up.

For the OP, yes a stronger twin would be great, but to be honest, mine still kicks a lot of a$$. I thought it was because I run a high strength Wukong, but now my mind is blown if strength doesn’t affect the twin. Wiki time.

Edit from wiki: 
Health multiplier is affected by Ability Strength.
Damage multiplier is not affected by mods.

Looks like I'll need to tweak my build.

Edited September 2, 2023 by m_a_r_c_h_

[0Midas0]

Having to manually pick a target for the twin seems to be too much trouble for what it's worth. It would be nice if it was just something automatically applied to whatever enemy you last hit. 

[Crabotex]

So make the lazy frame more lazy? wukong needs a nerf

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

Kinda don't understand why he can't use galvanized mods now you can say huge buff but imo he is you your stats so make it be like this only if the player gets the required kill for the galvanized mods and requirement for arcane than he has 80% of what you naturally get it makes him more efficient and you can not worry on seeing him shoot a guy 6 times and he only lost 80% of his health and you look at your ammo pool and it's all gone since you like shooting with a clone since your solo 

 

I don't care about the ammo nerf or the damage nerf if they can use the items you worked for but if they can't well just cause you can five him roar or eclipse doesn't mean you can pick a different frame and do better since your ammo pool is not getting sucked away by a clone capped by its 0.5 damage and bad aim you got past pre requisites for building him now let him use the same stuff but at 80% efficiency 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb (PSN)lord_makino234:

Kinda don't understand why he can't use galvanized mods now you can say huge buff but imo he is you your stats so make it be like this only if the player gets the required kill for the galvanized mods and requirement for arcane than he has 80% of what you naturally get it makes him more efficient and you can not worry on seeing him shoot a guy 6 times and he only lost 80% of his health and you look at your ammo pool and it's all gone since you like shooting with a clone since your solo 

 

I don't care about the ammo nerf or the damage nerf if they can use the items you worked for but if they can't well just cause you can five him roar or eclipse doesn't mean you can pick a different frame and do better since your ammo pool is not getting sucked away by a clone capped by its 0.5 damage and bad aim you got past pre requisites for building him now let him use the same stuff but at 80% efficiency 

According to their stats from 2023, wukong is in second place from a magical world in a parallel universe. Although I've seen him extremely rarely in SP content on EU/NA.

So there's no way they're going to buff him. They're ruining everything popular so that their new pointless content can somehow be sold.

Also, was revenant in first place in stats? That's a joke. Where the hell are all the revenants? I'll see maybe one in 6 months, even though I play every day.

[Prof-Dante]

Hmmm you know, I was thinking about stealing some ability ideas from the cancelled game Paragon, which had a wukong.

his ultimate ability allowed his attacks to leave behind a clone that will replicate the last attack, spamming this power.

 

I was thinking something similar to Wukong here, especially since I really wanted to have multiple clones like in the mythology, we would rework this ability from a specter to an ability that spawns clones with very short lifespan.

[_Anise_]

On 2023-08-25 at 8:00 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

change the AI so that Clone only attacks enemies you are aiming at -Just like Citrine's #3

I thought Citrine's 3 had a beam at enemies for each of your and your allies weapons/attacks

Edited August 27 by _Anise_

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

On 2024-08-27 at 10:17 AM, Venus-Venera said:

According to their stats from 2023, wukong is in second place from a magical world in a parallel universe. Although I've seen him extremely rarely in SP content on EU/NA.

So there's no way they're going to buff him. They're ruining everything popular so that their new pointless content can somehow be sold.

Also, was revenant in first place in stats? That's a joke. Where the hell are all the revenants? I'll see maybe one in 6 months, even though I play every day.

Yea ik they won't buff him but like now his twin doesn't really scale like if my arca plasmor 1 shots not steel path enemies and he takes 2 or 3 depending on where it hits there is a problem 

 

Before any correction I use the arca plasmor in steel path also it melts fast but just saying that if it's like level 60 to 80 I seen him needing to use 2 shots he can't use galvanized mods which tbh would give him the perfect scaling from him doing 0.5 of your damage which births builds like disruption type where your supporting him and you mark he has galvanized mod buffs and kills the demo it sounds fun but you can't do that in high level since he can't scale which is boring imo just let him use galvanized mods it's the smart choice but they won't do it

[vFlitz]

49 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

unfortunately intentional. because his aimbot is already so bad. with ammo ruination it is unfortunately already embarrassing.

so I have the impression that everything possible is being tried to frustrate the player while playing

There's some irony in the fact that if his AI didn't have an aneurysm every 10 seconds and unload entire clips at the floor or the ceiling, then perhaps people would be a little more inclined to consider non-AoE weapons on him. Part of the reason they're so popular is because they can still hit enemies even when the monkey brain switches on.

I also don't understand why getting him to use a specific weapon is still so obtuse when we have the sub-ability cycling tech on multiple frames. Could make it a tap to cycle weapon options when no enemy is under the targeting reticle, then hold to execute. Include an option to despawn the clone, and an additional slam one when the augment is equipped, and no existing functionality is lost and we also solve the issue of the augment making it impossible to dismiss the clone.