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The price of Heirloom skins is incredibly disappointing.

Kymaeraa

By Kymaeraa,
in General Discussion

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Royal_Espeon

Royal_Espeon

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

That’s disappointing.

He’s entitled to his opinion and all, but that kinda comes off as a “don’t want to bite the hand that feeds me” move.

Tater on the other hand outright called the pricing “disgusting”.

That being said, I’d like to make it clear that my issue with the Heirloom release is the fact that there’s no way to get the cosmetics by themselves and to a lesser extent the fact that the offer will arbitrarily vanish at the end of the year to never return (which is heavily implied).

If it were up to me, I’d add the following to the heirloom offer:

1. Mag + Frost comestics only pack

2. Mag cosmetics only pack

3. Frost cosmetics only pack

The last two because I’m sure not everyone’s going to want both skins.

I think that’s fair.

The best outcome (one I have some hope will happen, because the last supporter pack did it) is the cosmetics are added to the market for plat purchase. I wait for a 50-75% discount, get 2-4k plat, and just add them to my usual "shopping list." Because for me, this is how I stay engaged with Warframe. Once I reach a point where I have to grind out forma, I take it as a sign to take a break and wait for a discount, so I don't get burnt out and can just jump right back into refining my builds (which is where my enjoyment comes from). Plus it means my returns are paired with getting a bunch of cosmetics I've always wanted, so I'm more excited to play than ever. I got a 50% discount when I logged back in for Tennocon, knew about the new deluxes, so I figured it meant I'd be buying a bit of plat and getting some deluxes with my forma purchase. 

Instead, I am faced with either throwing away the money I would otherwise save for the upcoming RE4R and/or Elden Ring DLCs. Normally I'd pick the games over the skins, but I can't do that. Why? Because 1. These skins go away forever by the end of the year; And 2. They are including brand new (universal, mind you) attachment types we've never had before. Will we ever get more that can be bought with plat? Maybe, maybe not. But that just makes it even worse, since now you're also gambling on if you're gonna miss out on a type of cosmetic you can never get another of. So when you see someone with it, you're gonna feel disappointed/bitter that you're not able to replicate their look. And this is bad for the people who did buy it too, since then they're gonna get flak from the part of the community that couldn't/wouldn't get it. 

This entire thing is just negatives all around, no matter how you spin it. Yeah some buyers can say the cope makes them happy, but even if they're being honest? There will still be people who caved in for the fomo tactics, got it, and now are at risk of getting blasted, all because they fell prey to a tactic designed to target people like them. Whether they add a cheaper bundle most people can (and are willing to) afford, or remove the time limit and just leave an overpriced bundle, either way it leaves it so that the people who really want to get the items can't, by no fault of their own. 

Point I'm trying to make, is people want to support DE, we don't want it to be free handouts. We just want everyone to be able to support them to the extent they can afford to. Everyone should be able to get these cosmetics, but as it stands now? Only the few who both can afford it, and are willing to, get access to them. There's no reason to leave it like that, it just breeds negativity between both sides. Warframe was awarded for best community, is it really worth throwing that away over $90-$70 bucks (depending on your currency and/or region)?

Edited by Claytronus02
Grammar
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ShogunGunshow

ShogunGunshow

Posted
Posted

Like, all DE needed to do with these packages was make one that didn't have Aya attached, and announce that the skins and attachments themselves (not the 10 year sigils) would be returning for purchase during a future TennoCon.

There'd still be the issue of it being only $ and no option for plat, but I feel like that would remove 90%+ of the anger.

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PublikDomain

PublikDomain

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36 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Like, all DE needed to do with these packages was make one that didn't have Aya attached, and announce that the skins and attachments themselves (not the 10 year sigils) would be returning for purchase during a future TennoCon.

There'd still be the issue of it being only $ and no option for plat, but I feel like that would remove 90%+ of the anger.

DE had time limited Deluxe skins with Saryn Orphid and Valkyr Gersemi and ditched the idea soon after with Rhino Palatine. Deluxe skins haven't been time limited since 2015, why should they start up again now?

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ShogunGunshow

ShogunGunshow

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35 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

DE had time limited Deluxe skins with Saryn Orphid and Valkyr Gersemi and ditched the idea soon after with Rhino Palatine. Deluxe skins haven't been time limited since 2015, why should they start up again now?

Time limited like prime resurgences can be. The window might close but it will open again. If DE wanted to do heirlooms that way, with around TennoCon being the window to pick up previous years' heirloom offerings, I would be more or less okay with that. You don't get screwed forever because the economy sucks and you maybe can't justify $90 on game cosmetics.

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ShogunGunshow

ShogunGunshow

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3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Those two and Proto Excalibur and Nyx Nemesis were made permanent with Rhino Palatine.

Yeah, DE recognized that creating more time-exclusive skins was kind of a trashy way of doing things. Or, cynically, maybe they made the calculated decision that it had been long enough that no one would care anymore that they weren't exclusive, and they had more players willing to fork over more $$$ that couldn't get it the first time.

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PublikDomain

PublikDomain

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Time limited like prime resurgences can be. The window might close but it will open again. If DE wanted to do heirlooms that way, with around TennoCon being the window to pick up previous years' heirloom offerings, I would be more or less okay with that. You don't get screwed forever because the economy sucks and you maybe can't justify $90 on game cosmetics.

Those are playable Warframes, not skins, and can be obtained at any time even when Vaulted via player trade. Rhino Prime's Prime appearance is not gated behind a premium paywall, it comes with Rhino Prime no matter how you get him. And while the accompanying Prime Accessories will eventually come back through Prime Resurgence, Heirlooms will never return. Never. DE took the time to spell that out specifically in the FAQ. If you don't cough up $70-90 by the end of the year, you will never get them again. Unless something changes, you are literally screwed forever if you can't or don't buy them this year. The window will close and never open again and that's by design.

16 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Or, cynically, maybe they made the calculated decision that it had been long enough that no one would care anymore that they weren't exclusive, and they had more players willing to fork over more $$$ that couldn't get it the first time.

They were made permanent within the span of a month, so I dunno about this interpretation. You can check the wiki for all of these dates. Valkyr Gersemi was originally available October 2, 2015 – October 14, 2015, and Saryn Orphid was originally available November 4, 2015 - November 18, 2015. Both were made permanent with all the rest on November 25, 2015. Saryn's skin was only off the market for a week before it was brought back permanently! Time-exclusive skins being kind of a trashy way of doing things is a lesson DE learned after doing these Deluxe skins for only a month but I guess has forgotten.

Edited by PublikDomain
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ShogunGunshow

ShogunGunshow

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for looking up the dates for those, it's been a while.

Yeah that's a bad theory on my end, then.

And yeah I'm aware of how the wording for heirlooms right now is that they'd be gone forever. Obviously any plan to offer them during future TennoCon's would require a change in language soon (and probably an offer of refunds).

Edited by ShogunGunshow
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Drachnov

Drachnov

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Posted

Just my 2 cents.

As a player to log in every day for the crispy environment, the well designed weapons, the fluent movement and the combat system and that does not do much of fashion.

I will not compare the price with any other games support or any kind of pack cause it doesn't matter; I will not mention that the game is F2P cause also doesn't matter. I will just provide my opinion for the pack as a product. 

The problem is the design of the product which will affect the price. I believe that, a pack of this kind, celebrating 10 years of the game should provide value that, in majority affects most players. A pack that provides cosmetics to 2 frames while people may play 1 or mostly 1 of them, it s not product that provides value to everyone. It also includes items that most people don t find valuable. 

If I was going to suggest something that most people would appreciate and found value of, would have been a separate pack for Frost and a separate for Mags and also, a third option combining the 2 in a lower price that buying individually both.

As for the rest of the pack, platinum can be valuable to most and I would probably include a boost token/voucher. So the person who wants to support the game and also find value on his purchase gets the most of the pack, provided by an item that gives him options like the token i mentioned, and as you provide a token that he/she has to scroll through the market to choose from, you also take the person through your other offers on the market.

I would probably go for a pack like this, even if I dont do fashion cause it gives me the notion that the game respects me, provides me value and something to remember this anniversary. 

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(PSN)rexis12

(PSN)rexis12

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"We do not feel it would be fair to those who purchased an Heirloom Collection already with the understanding that they were time-limited to now remove that element. Those who have purchased simply get more, and ultimately they are now a good Platinum deal with exclusive Cosmetics"

It was YOUR idea to trick them with a FOMO, and now you're using them as a SHIELD so that you can't make the changes that would matter.

That's the scummiest thing that you could have done.

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FireOox314

FireOox314

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Posted

The trust is broken anyway for me, I feel like I've been cheated, they tried something obviously bad and might have planned to sell the bundle with the rectified amount of plats from the start; they just tested our boundaries, "how will the community react if we release the bundle with even lower platinum than intended", one day this will become the norm and no one will bat an eye anymore.
Now we're thanking them for this changes, they gain rep and still sort of got away with it, win-win situation, we can't say they did nothing and the bundle is still bad value, only less than initially.

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Fiendir

Fiendir

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Posted

I'm just so eternally, utterly disappointed by this whole debacle. Even more so by the response posted just now.

The one reason I've loved this game over any other live service is that the whole FOMO/artificial scarcity has been... So very minimal.
Yeah, there's the Twitch Prime gaming stuff. Technically the Prime accessories as well. But the latter come around every now and then, so it's not a "never" but a "not right now."
It's been alright, and we've been very happy with that.

This is why taking a beautiful pack meant to celebrate 10 years of this beautiful game and community... And making it time-gated? Should NEVER have even been considered.
Digital Extremes is no longer a struggling indie dev trying to get their one shot to land or go under, there's no bonuses outside of BUY THEM SOON OR NEVER cosmetics to spending this ridiculous amount of money.
Making this "celebration" a time-gated, single-option buy is an absolute slap to the face or the community you are trying to celebrate.

And then the response. Goddamnit, the problem isn't value, it's that the offering itself is overpriced as hell to begin with AND time-gated to make people think less about how expensive it really is. Overpriced and for no good apparent reason time-gated is the two-hit combo of bad things that make me care less about however much plat/regal aya value is contained, and more about what kind of ethical values you want to use, such as making things limited just for the sake of hyping up short-term sales.

Worst part of all; you knew this backlash would happen. This is the exact same problem of the initial Regal Aya disaster. And worse, it has the exact same objectively S#&$ty solution of "devalue plat even more" that is at best... Ignorant. Very ignorant. And at worst, downright malicious and deliberate.

I can't tell you how hype I to grab the Grendel Prime access, but we know very damn well I won't spend another penny until there's some serious conversation with your community on why you chose this strategy out of every other potential one. I don't want to assume it's because of greed, but you are making that very, very difficult to do anything else.

 

Looking forward to hearing more on how this was intended to be received, and how you aim to correct it. If this is all the response there is? I'm out. Flat gone.

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(XBOX)Ampathetiic

(XBOX)Ampathetiic

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Posted

Based on how they handled Regal Aya's initial launch, nobody should be surprised that their solution is to simply add more platinum. It is the lowest effort, lowest risk solution they could have possibly chosen.

Still not happy with this, but I'll decide on whether or not I'll buy the pack based on the content by the end of the year. For now, this has been a pretty good year for games, and I unfortunately have better things to spend my money on.

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