Performing a series of specific Parkour Movements > Tapping a Button. Why Nerfing Exodia Contagion is a MISTAKE

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You know you can still build it the exact same way as before right. None of the things you could directly mod for were affected. “On heavy attack:” effects still apply when you launch via heavy (more accurately when you are in a heavy attack animation).

Combo count still only affects the damage done after 30m, and only at 25% of the combo level.
Combo consumed during a heavy attack never buffed Exodia Contagion’s damage.

I'm not sure what you mean you received the x2 crit chance from steel mods when doing the mid air heavy attack. That was affected. I'm aware of the other things you mentioned.

Edited September 13, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[-Krism-]

57 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

They removed an enjoyable way to build a weapon.

They only fixed heavy attacks working mid-air, you can still use it, I don't see how this is "cope" when it's objectively true

[Roble_Viejo]

On 2023-09-13 at 11:42 AM, SneakyErvin said:

attack speed will make for quicker animations, meaning you are back on the ground much quicker to start a new contagion attack.

Lmao that is absolutely not true

Melee Animations have NOTHING to do with Aim Glide time
They are completely different parameters

The Melee Animation is much shorter than the time it takes to Bullet Jump
upwards and landing on the ground, REGARDLESS of Attack Speed




 

 

On 2023-09-13 at 12:42 PM, CoffeeElemental said:

Be glad DE didn't start banning people for using this.

These White Knights are getting ridiculous
Your armor is blinding me man! Is too shiny!

 

On 2023-09-13 at 1:49 PM, -Krism- said:

What a pathetic reaction, you have a whole game with hundreds, thousands of hours of content for completely free

Yeah... Content that can get Nerfed, Fixed or Removed completely without warning
And then all those hours of grinding go down the drain just like that

God forbid an Arcane that is only available every two years
and requires lots of grind is actually strong 🙄

[-Krism-]

17 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Yeah... Content that can get Nerfed, Fixed or Removed completely without warning

Dude, one attack got fixed, don't you think you're overreacting a bit?

 

18 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

God forbid an Arcane that is only available every two years
and requires lots of grind is actually strong 🙄

God forbids it still #*!%ing works tho

[CoffeeElemental]

40 минут назад, Roble_Viejo сказал:

Your armor is blinding me man! Is too shiny!

Already forgot how they banned people for using companion (or was it Venari only) affinity exploit?

[Zimzala]

So many of the posters in this thread sound like children scared of the boogie-man in the closet.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Yeah... Content that can get Nerfed, Fixed or Removed completely without warning
And then all those hours of grinding go down the drain just like that

God forbid an Arcane that is only available every two years
and requires lots of grind is actually strong 🙄

This is far from the first time that something with a high barrier of entry got nerfed and certainly wont be the last. 

You should expect that by now.

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Why so ad personam?

Trying NOT to be a huge rude jerk, I swear

7 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

It is not about having trouble with anything it is about specific circumstances. Have you tried doing this in tight corridors with low ceiling (plenty of Corpus tilesets, some Grineer and occasionally on Void/Lua)? Humor me and try. And compare it to simply pressing 1 button.

And this is why. I admit I haven't tried using it in low ceiling environments, that's something you thought of that I haven't.

Though on that note, I would not count Void/Lua specifically as "low ceiling environments," I HAVE tried Contagion spam there once and it worked like a charm. 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I'm not sure what you mean you received the x2 crit chance from steel mods when doing the mid air heavy attack. That was affected.

It wasn't. I'm not even a fan of Exodia Contagion yet it's trivial to see that the "On Heavy Attack:" effects from mods still work.
 

The Zaw has 29% CC, so with Sacrificial Steel, the CC on normal attacks is 92.8%. This means I cannot get an orange crit with normal attacks. Heavies get x2 from Sac Steel, so they have 155.6% CC, which enables oranges crits. All that to say that if I get an orange crit, it's from the "On Heavy Attack:" effect of Sac Steel applying.

Behold:

 

3 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

what do you mean? i tried it out and the hvy attack projectile wasn't doing anything special, damage was largely reduced. is there something else to it now?

Try aiming better? Contagion's explosion has falloff. It would be nice if you could show some evidence of Heavy attack Contagion dealing less damage than a normal throw. Time to wait for another person to only test damage numbers against CHG/Gokstad Officer/Manic Bombard, as if they are the only units to exist. Surely we don't have non-armored units to show damage numbers
The previous video shows that Sac Steel's x2 on heavy attack effect still works. The following one shows that Killing Blow still works (Zaw only uses Killing Blow):

Edited September 13, 2023 by (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

It wasn't. I'm not even a fan of Exodia Contagion yet it's trivial to see that the "On Heavy Attack:" effects from mods still work.

Shhh, do not tell'em...

[quxier]

11 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

14 hours ago, quxier said:

Sadly with some stuffs they go waaaaaay overboard. Exodia is already clunky. Having to do bullet/double jump is not always possible or wanted.

Second time I've seen this. And I don't want to just dismiss it as skill issue, I mean this sincerely:

Are you having trouble jumping in this game? I've never had trouble with space + space + E, tap tap tap and I shoot the projectile. But I'm not you, is your setup not convenient for that maneuver?

I'm on pc. I'm not old player/person (so no big human lags). I've used to do complex "key presses" (I don't know how to name it) in warframe and other games. I'm not hardcore gamer nor completely bad gamer (newb or something). In vacuum (e.g. in Simulacrum) it's not problem to bullet/double jump (2x space or ctrl+space AND both mouse buttons). I've been trying "aim glide on tap" options which require only tapping to block/aim/aimglide. That makes it even (slightly) easier.

The problem is I don't always want double or bullet jump. Sometimes I want tiny (normal) jump because I don't want to move a lot. Sometimes ceilings are not very high with other obstacles so doing double/bullet jump can position you in bad spot (where projectile won't hit enemy/ies but you). In probably lots of cases I can somehow work it out but.... why bother when you can do something less "clunky", like Innodem that "only" requires 5/3 combo?

6 hours ago, -Krism- said:

6 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

No fun allowed.

What a pathetic reaction, you have a whole game with hundreds, thousands of hours of content for completely free, but you people can't get your heads out of your @sses when DE fixes a bug

The exact same thing happened when they nerfed AOE ammo, the forums were overflowed with these types of threads, & in the end, what happened? Nothing, because you can still play with those weapons just fine

It's not that this game ban all the fun. But when it removes/nerf another stuff that is not needed then people jokingly say "no fun allowed".

[-Krism-]

16 minutes ago, quxier said:

jokingly say "no fun allowed".

I don't think this thread was made as a joke

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

I don't think this thread was made as a joke

It's not that the thread is joke but "de taking our fun element of game" we jokingly say "no fun allowed".

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

It wasn't. I'm not even a fan of Exodia Contagion yet it's trivial to see that the "On Heavy Attack:" effects from mods still work.
 

The Zaw has 29% CC, so with Sacrificial Steel, the CC on normal attacks is 92.8%. This means I cannot get an orange crit with normal attacks. Heavies get x2 from Sac Steel, so they have 155.6% CC, which enables oranges crits. All that to say that if I get an orange crit, it's from the "On Heavy Attack:" effect of Sac Steel applying.

Behold:

 

Try aiming better? Contagion's explosion has falloff. It would be nice if you could show some evidence of Heavy attack Contagion dealing less damage than a normal throw. Time to wait for another person to only test damage numbers against CHG/Gokstad Officer/Manic Bombard, as if they are the only units to exist. Surely we don't have non-armored units to show damage numbers
The previous video shows that Sac Steel's x2 on heavy attack effect still works. The following one shows that Killing Blow still works (Zaw only uses Killing Blow):

I haven't tried it post nerf but will when I get home.

[Zakkhar]

44 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I haven't tried it post nerf but will when I get home.

I just did. Literally nothing changed for me (i was never utilising the combo multiplier anyway). Can still easily do 30 milion damage hits to 195 SP armored enemies in simul (did Archon Disruption yesterday evening and had no trouble either). Are we sure the hotfix is live?

Edited September 13, 2023 by Zakkhar

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

3 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

I just did. Literally nothing changed for me (i was never utilising the combo multiplier anyway). Can still easily do 30 milion damage hits to 195 SP armored enemies in simul (did Archon Disruption yesterday evening and had no trouble either). Are we sure the hotfix is live?

It's mentioned as a fix in latest hotfix but the wording is kinda confusing.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Lmao that is absolutely not true

Melee Animations have NOTHING to do with Aim Glide time
They are completely different parameters

The Melee Animation is much shorter than the time it takes to Bullet Jump
upwards and landing on the ground, REGARDLESS of Attack Speed

It does have a connection to aim glide time. If you have a slow weapon it will make you glide longer before falling even after releasing your aim if you started the animation during the glide. Which you will do when using contagion since aiming is one of the requirements for throwing the weapon. Which is noticeable on the slow weapons if you dont make up for it with some attack speed.

 

[DrBorris]

Some of this discussion is wild. 

• Slide attacks in the air have been a thing since forever. In some ways it is the bedrock that the game's movement system was built off of.
• Heavy slide attacks are a mechanic that has been acknowledged by DE through Tenet Grigori using them for its special mechanic (heavy slide attack throws the projectile, it's even in the description).

Heavy slide attacks are a lesser known mechanic, I didn't know they were a thing before Grigori came out, but given what is available in game the combination of these two things makes sense. 

 

I don't know why so many are making this out to be a mysterious "tech" or an exploit. It is just a heavy slide attack while in the air, it does require some finger gymnastics but it's existence is intuitive. DE not explaining how this "animation bug" was done in the patch notes is a bit odd as the components to it are core mechanics.

For those that think this is a terrible exploit, what is the reasoning behind that? Why wouldn't you expect a heavy slide attack to work in the air?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

Why wouldn't you expect a heavy slide attack to work in the air?

You can still do heavy slide attacks midair. That wasn't removed. All that was removed is Exodia Contagion inheriting the heavy attack damage multiplier. That's it. Feel free to still use your midair heavies.

[DrBorris]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You can still do heavy slide attacks midair. That wasn't removed. All that was removed is Exodia Contagion inheriting the heavy attack damage multiplier. That's it. Feel free to still use your midair heavies.

The reasoning they provided for this change was that slide heavy attacks in the air are apparently a "movement animation bug."

If they just wanted to nerf the interaction, they could've have left it at that. Instead they said that it was because it was a bug. Therefore when critiquing their change I am going to point out the flaws with the rational they provided. While I'm not actually that much against a nerf, Contagion has been a problem-maker for DE since it came out (in that it often ignores/breaks new content), I am not a fan of disingenuous explanations. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by DrBorris

[ShogunGunshow]

I mean. Being able to heavy attack-throw the exodia contagion kind of was an obvious oversight, and was clearly never intended. I had some fun with it, but come on, you had to know it was just living on borrowed time until the baleful eye of DE's capricious and inconsistent QA turned towards it.

I do wonder whose video was released recently that prompted them to do this, though, because most of the time some screamlord with an obnoxious video thumbnail is the catalyst for stuff like this.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

The reasoning they provided for this change was that slide heavy attacks in the air are apparently a "movement animation bug."

Those words were immediately followed by "and went beyond the original design for the Arcane.", which, given that the animation bug in question was left untouched, is likely the main reason behind the fix.

If you're going to accuse others of being disingenuous, the least you can do is not leave out important information.

[_Anise_]

On 2023-09-12 at 8:36 PM, VibingCat said:

Once again, DE ignores the community to nerf something that totally didn't deserve it. I'm one step closer to abandoning the game forever.

I have a maxed contagion and never used this combo, firstly it sounds like some kind of bug and secondly sounds difficult to pull off,

unpopular opinion ? I am kinda leaning towards they should either bake it in properly so all you have tod o is press heavy attack in the air to get it or they should remove it.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

4 hours ago, DrBorris said:

The reasoning they provided for this change was that slide heavy attacks in the air are apparently a "movement animation bug."

If they just wanted to nerf the interaction, they could've have left it at that. Instead they said that it was because it was a bug. Therefore when critiquing their change I am going to point out the flaws with the rational they provided. While I'm not actually that much against a nerf, Contagion has been a problem-maker for DE since it came out (in that it often ignores/breaks new content), I am not a fan of disingenuous explanations. 

They have used this excuse multiple times is the sad part.

[Skoomaseller]

I care less about the nerf because the bigger picture is <a certain game company> is not a serious company and would let things like this exist before """"fixing"""" them 5 years later, or not fixing things that need immediate attention and only working on them years later (this is currently happening with Yareli. Actually nevermind, they're not fixing anything).

Edited September 14, 2023 by Skoomaseller