Do red crit exodia zaw builds still work ?

[snaykerX]

Hi,

Few days ago I was inspired to reproduce this red crit zaw build on wisp :

https://imgur.com/gallery/KN2g7Uk

As i understand it, i am supposed to obtain red crits from bullet jumping + melee projectile with exodia contagion, but i haven't seen any reds on my screen so far.

Has this been nerfed already ?

Thanks !

[Pizzarugi]

To reproduce implies you're taking this build design off someone else who's already designed it. I recommend you take a look at the original and see if they're doing anything else that could potentially affect their ability to inflict red crits. Are they using an Adarza Kavat? What frame are they using? What did they build their zaw with?

[snaykerX]

il y a 9 minutes, Pizzarugi a dit :

To reproduce implies you're taking this build design off someone else who's already designed it. I recommend you take a look at the original and see if they're doing anything else that could potentially affect their ability to inflict red crits. Are they using an Adarza Kavat? What frame are they using? What did they build their zaw with?

I mean I thought it would be sort of popular build, one of those that get so used and copy/pasted that you don't know who came up with it anymore.

Other than that, i got the build from the first result on youtube when typing "wisp prime build", here it is for reference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKWtltuloA

I remember seing those kind of builds with even back in the days, just the first time i wanted to try one.

[Pizzarugi]

5 minutes ago, Snayku said:

I mean I thought it would be sort of popular build, one of those that get so used and copy/pasted that you don't know who came up with it anymore.

Other than that, i got the build from the first result on youtube when typing "wisp prime build", here it is for reference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKWtltuloA

I remember seing those kind of builds with even back in the days, just the first time i wanted to try one.

Okay I'm going through the build now. It's not the red crits that are actually important in this build, but rather the damage the build can put out. The creator can deal 2 billion damage even on normal crits, suggesting red crits are above and beyond overkill.

You're using Archon Intensify over Umbral Intensify. Umbral should be stronger than Archon, but if you can't squeeze it into your build, that makes sense. Your zaw also isn't using a smite mod which is going to do a lot more damage versus Spoiled Strike. They're also using Epitaph as a damage primer and having it use corrosive+heat. Are you using this?

Other than that, I don't see any reason why you aren't dealing red crits. It doesn't seem to be consistent even in this video, and seeing as it's a month old, I don't think DE changed anything since it came out to make scoring crits more difficult.

[lukinu_u]

Balla + Peye + Vargeet 22 Jai has 32% critical chance.
If the goal is to use Exodia Contagion, combo dependent critical chance (Blood Rush and Gladiator set) have no impact, so you would only get a the bonus from Sacrificial Steel, which is doubled on heavy attack, so the max you would get is 32%*(1+2*2.2)=172.8%.

[snaykerX]

Il y a 1 heure, Pizzarugi a dit :

Okay I'm going through the build now. It's not the red crits that are actually important in this build, but rather the damage the build can put out. The creator can deal 2 billion damage even on normal crits, suggesting red crits are above and beyond overkill.

You're using Archon Intensify over Umbral Intensify. Umbral should be stronger than Archon, but if you can't squeeze it into your build, that makes sense. Your zaw also isn't using a smite mod which is going to do a lot more damage versus Spoiled Strike. They're also using Epitaph as a damage primer and having it use corrosive+heat. Are you using this?

Other than that, I don't see any reason why you aren't dealing red crits. It doesn't seem to be consistent even in this video, and seeing as it's a month old, I don't think DE changed anything since it came out to make scoring crits more difficult.

Il y a 1 heure, lukinu_u a dit :

Balla + Peye + Vargeet 22 Jai has 32% critical chance.
If the goal is to use Exodia Contagion, combo dependent critical chance (Blood Rush and Gladiator set) have no impact, so you would only get a the bonus from Sacrificial Steel, which is doubled on heavy attack, so the max you would get is 32%*(1+2*2.2)=172.8%.

Thank you guys for your answers, I knew i was doing things wrong.

So i did couple of changes based on your feedback + rewatching the video and was able to see multiple orange crits over 30 mil + damage on my screen, now it looks like this > https://imgur.com/gallery/pgoDBbA

This was just a regular SP extermination lvl 130 ~ void mission so i guess it can probably scale higher than those numbers.

As for the absence of red crits, i'm not too suprised, as i think the person in the showcase had a riven even if he's not mentioning it directly, i'm almost certain about it since i don't see how you can reach 300%+ with the current setup unless u have a riven with 150%+ crit chance or something of that nature.

I checked on warframe market and it doesn't seem too simple to find specific zaw rivens like this, granted they're tradeable, cause i've never had any one like that yet.

Eventhough i do like the vigorous swap / aracne archane i don't think they are that needed for this setup and i will probably replace with energize and a bane (edit : something else)  instead of vigorous swap to make this build more versatile, and still benefit from the crazy damage.

From my testing so far, the bulk of the damage comes from 1/ exodia, 2/ eclipse, 3/ arcane fury, the other mods (arachne + v.s) are sort of overkill and could be traded for more QoL or other areas imho.

[Pizzarugi]

Yeah if I had to guess, the creator probably is using a riven for red crits and if you could get yourself one, you could replace Gladiator Might with it.

I recommend visiting overframe.gg if you wanna theorycraft a build using a riven.

[Zakkhar]

9 hours ago, Snayku said:

As i understand it, i am supposed to obtain red crits from bullet jumping + melee projectile with exodia contagion

Not quite. To execute the heavy slide you needed to enter melee only mode (hold F), bullet/double jump, glide (rmouse), slide in the opposite direction you want to do damage (control+directional keys) and heavy attack (whatever you have bound for it, pray it is not the default middle mouse button because it will break soon). This way you can actually utilise Sac Steel double effect on Heavy.  I personally do not use Blood Rush whatsoever.

[snaykerX]

il y a 14 minutes, Zakkhar a dit :

Not quite. To execute the heavy slide you needed to enter melee only mode (hold F), bullet/double jump, glide (rmouse), slide in the opposite direction you want to do damage (control+directional keys) and heavy attack (whatever you have bound for it, pray it is not the default middle mouse button because it will break soon). This way you can actually utilise Sac Steel double effect on Heavy.  I personally do not use Blood Rush whatsoever.

Thanks for this, so is this tech that was removed recently by DE ? I've tried executing what you describe and followed exact same procedure, only heavy jump slam attack comes out from last part and not exodia projectile.

Anyways even without this "bug" or whatever you want to call it, the damage is still pretty good for me with regular air projectile attack, but if you can still perform this with a zaw please let me know so i can rectify.

[Zakkhar]

11 hours ago, Snayku said:

Thanks for this, so is this tech that was removed recently by DE ? I've tried executing what you describe and followed exact same procedure, only heavy jump slam attack comes out from last part and not exodia projectile.

This was not removed. I tested it and it still does more damage and red crits over orange. What they may have removed is the combo multiplier affecting the damage (which i was never using).

You are heavy slamming because you attempt to slide it the same direction as the damage, you need to slide away.

Here a guy shows how it done (he compares quick throws vs heavy throws).

 

[snaykerX]

Il y a 5 heures, Zakkhar a dit :

This was not removed. I tested it and it still does more damage and red crits over orange. What they may have removed is the combo multiplier affecting the damage (which i was never using).

You are heavy slamming because you attempt to slide it the same direction as the damage, you need to slide away.

Here a guy shows how it done (he compares quick throws vs heavy throws).

 

Thanks i think i got it now, i made a showcase tell me if this is how you do it too :

 

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, Snayku said:

tell me if this is how you do it too

This is basic way yes. There are some more possibilities.