Pretty disappointed that a login reward rework wasn’t talked about in devstream.

[Qriist]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Then continue gate keeping this mod.

Yes.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

8 minutes ago, Voltage said:

That's not the point. The value of Primed Sure Footed is partly due to the time commitment to have it, and it's not as simple as just "let people have it". The game has to have some stuff that takes time to get. If you don't have anything at all like that, what is there to reward older players? We're already struggling with this problem every major update, so there's no reason to make it harder arbitrarily by handing out long-term rewards.

I like how "gatekeeping" is thrown around as a means of making a party look bad, when in fact, you're not entitled for the gate to be open to everything. It's called reward progression, and it adds value to rewards.

I'm not making a party look bad, just one person. People have been defending having to login in for 400 days and calling the mod "useless" for a long time. It's to gate keep and we all know it. Its completely arbitrary to lock a mod this useful and necessary behind 400 days. No way to defend that. This is not how veteran rewards should work.

Edited July 21, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Pakaku]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Its completely arbitrary to lock a mod this useful and necessary behind 400 days.

It's not arbitrary, it's a method DE exploits to get people to play more often than they would. Otherwise mods that are "this useful" would be more easily accessible, i.e. "let Baro sell it during Tennocon ;)"

And as stated many times, no, it is absolutely not necessary. Otherwise you wouldn't have played and put up with playing without it for 400 days just to get it. It's nice to have, but you can live without it.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Pakaku

[Qriist]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I'm not making a party look bad, just one person. 

Gatekeeping is good.

 

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

mod this useful and necessary

Mid-tier, at best.

 

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

This is not how veteran rewards should work.

I don't actually care if the login reward system exists or not. Since it does, though, veterans absolutely should get QoL perks that are otherwise inaccessible. 

[Tiltskillet]

Big picture, I really feel that login rewards should be cosmetics, novelties, and consumables only.   So regardless of how powerful or not powerful they are, I'm all for an alternate way to get the login mods...although the idea of that being a real money Tennocon ticket makes me throw up a little in my mouth.  

I'm also all for nerfing PSF if DE has quietly given up on their self damage schemes.

[Frendh]

Primed sure footed is very convenient. But I hardly use it on all my frames. There are several frames where I do not use it at all in the configs.

I would not mind if stagger immunity was removed from Prime Sure Footed. And a Cautious Shot mod introduced for secondaries.

Login rewards should stay login rewards. I'll happily wear my three Gate Keeper badges along with matching socks and undies.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Frendh

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

59 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

It's not arbitrary, it's a method DE exploits to get people to play more often than they would. Otherwise mods that are "this useful" would be more easily accessible, i.e. "let Baro sell it during Tennocon ;)"

And as stated many times, no, it is absolutely not necessary. Otherwise you wouldn't have played and put up with playing without it for 400 days just to get it. It's nice to have, but you can live without it.

A mod that negates having to pick a certain frame, focus school, and doesn't even take up an important mod slot(as psf is an exilus mod) is more then just nice to have.

58 minutes ago, Qriist said:

Gatekeeping is good.

For you maybe, but not for others and new players who DE is obviously trying to attract and the community at large. That's actually a pretty gross thing to say but hey free speech.

Edited July 22, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Frendh]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

For you maybe, but not for others and new players who DE is obviously trying to attract.

The vast majority of new players will not be affected by it.  For most of them it will take double digit hours of gameplay before it is brought to their attention. Point being, they have already been attracted.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

1 minute ago, Frendh said:

The vast majority of new players will not be affected by it.  For most of them it will take double digit hours of gameplay before it is brought to their attention. Point being, they have already been attracted.

I don't believe this. AOE weapons are extremely important and useful at any stage of play. However I don't think everyone should get knockdown immunity at the start. But 400 days.... no.

Edited July 22, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Pakaku]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I don't believe this. AOE weapons are extremely important and useful at any stage of play. However I don't think everyone should get knockdown immunity at the start. But 400 days.... no.

Have you played a shooter before? When you use an explosives weapon, you normally keep your distance... to avoid gibbing yourself... or you swap to your non-explosives weapons

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

5 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Have you played a shooter before? When you use an explosives weapon, you normally keep your distance... to avoid gibbing yourself... or you swap to your non-explosives weapons

Have you played Warframe? That's not how it works in this game. Did you forget what we were talking about?

Edited July 22, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Qriist]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

A mod that negates having to pick a certain frame, focus school, and doesn't even take up an important mod slot(as psf is an exilus mod) is more then just nice to have.

You make an excellent case. I'm sold.  PSF is far overpowered and should be removed altogether.

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

That's actually a pretty gross thing to say

No, it's not.

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, Pakaku said:

method DE exploits to get people to play more often than they would

You realise you do not need to play that day at all? You just need to start your PC/console* load WF, login, get the reward, log off. Takes 1 minute max.

You cannot spare 1 minute of your time durig the day for somethig and you call it gatekeeping. Nobody is gatekeeping it. You do it to yourself.

*) I realise sometimes your are out of bounds and have no access to your PC/console and that is ok, there are no streaks any more. This is not duolingo.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Zakkhar

[Pakaku]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Have you played Warframe? That's not how it works in this game. Did you forget what we were talking about?

I'd say my claiming PSF not being important enough to change being a login reward, and pointing out why it's not as important as you think it is, is pretty on topic...

Edited July 22, 2023 by Pakaku

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

1 minute ago, Pakaku said:

I'd say my claiming PSF not being as important as you think it is, and pointing out why it's not that important, is pretty on topic...

Ya, talking about how you play other games that are not Warframe is definitely on topic....

[Pakaku]

Just now, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Ya, talking about how you play other games that are not Warframe is definitely on topic....

A shooter is a shooter, basic skills like aiming rifles accurately and staying out of your explosions are applicable to any game with guns and explosives

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

21 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

A shooter is a shooter, basic skills like aiming rifles accurately and staying out of your explosions are applicable to any game with guns and explosives

Not when AOE guns cannot harm you and one of the few ways we can speed up the excessive grinding in this game. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna
you definitely have not played Warframe

[Voltage]

34 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Not when AOE guns cannot harm you and one of the few ways we can speed up the excessive grinding in this game. 

Primed Sure Footed does not restrict the usage or accessibility of the Stagger Immunity mechanic. Primed Sure Footed is also not a QoL mod. It is a survivability mod and pseudo fire-rate mod. Respecting how this mod has been earned is healthy for the relationship between DE and players. It used to be 900 days to earn, it had a "resist animation" that stopped the player in their tracks, and it had no affect on self-inflicted explosions. All this discussion would instantly dissolve if we just nerfed the mod to pre-Warframe Revised levels and leave it be as a powerful tool to combat enemy and environmental hazards with no affect on care-free self-staggers.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

21 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Primed Sure Footed does not restrict the usage or accessibility of the Stagger Immunity mechanic. Primed Sure Footed is also not a QoL mod. It is a survivability mod and pseudo fire-rate mod. Respecting how this mod has been earned is healthy for the relationship between DE and players. It used to be 900 days to earn, it had a "resist animation" that stopped the player in their tracks, and it had no affect on self-inflicted explosions. All this discussion would instantly dissolve if we just nerfed the mod to pre-Warframe Revised levels and leave it be as a powerful tool to combat enemy and environmental hazards with no affect on care-free self-staggers.

Once again, new players should not have if but 400 days is outrageous and it existing and being dangled in front of everyone who does not have is restrictive. 400 days is not even remotely respectful to players and we as vets should be able to acknowledge that. I've already given reasons why psf is so important.

Edited July 22, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[----Legacy----]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Once again, new players should not have if but 400 days is outrageous and it existing and being dangled in front of everyone who does not have is restrictive. 400 days is not even remotely respectful to players and we as vets should be able to acknowledge that. I've already given reasons why psf is so important.

Why are you -conveniently- omitting the -already mentioned- part of the mod originally being locked behind 900 logins which is now reduced to less than half (400).

Old players were doing great with stacking knockdown resistance mods or handspring for actual years before PSF was added and then buffed to its current state. I'm sure new players can wait 400 logins and still do just as fine if not better than we did back when PSF didn't exist.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

53 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Why are you -conveniently- omitting the -already mentioned- part of the mod originally being locked behind 900 logins which is now reduced to less than half (400).

Old players were doing great with stacking knockdown resistance mods or handspring for actual years before PSF was added and then buffed to its current state. I'm sure new players can wait 400 logins and still do just as fine if not better than we did back when PSF didn't exist.

Changing from 900 days doesn't make it better so no, I didn't omit anything important. Self damage used to exist so it wasn't as useful. There is 0 good reason to defend the 400 days. It's only harmful but this conversation will never end or change so just gotta let the gate keepers do their thing.

Edited July 22, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

It's funny to look up video and build guides finding out that Primed Sure Footed is recommneded on every frame for "Endgame" setup. Poise exist but people rather use Zenurik for energy regen. Cautious Shot exist as well but "my ammo mutation is recommneded." It's all or nothing for a lot of newcomers when it comes to build diversity.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Changing from 900 days doesn't make it better so no, I didn't omit anything important.

Care to elaborate on how reducing the availability from 900 days to 400 (less than half) "doesn't make it better"?

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Self damage used to exist so it wasn't as useful.

Pretty much why now it's really easy to assume "new players" just want the mld asap in order to mindlessly spam explosives at their feet, which trivializes the gameplay by removing environment awareness, an important skill on any shooting game since self damage was replaced by self stagger, which is practically removed by PSF.

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

There is 0 good reason to defend the 400 days.

Long term goals are good, getting all of the content quickly is an easy way to make players go away equally quickly, as has been proven by wf activity usually spiking right after a big update and then slowly going down as more players get everything it can offer.

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It's only harmful but this conversation will never end or change so just gotta let the gate keepers do their thing.

It encourages players to stick to the game for an extended period of time by offering a long term goal with a defined wall to climb and defined end 

From a dev point of view it makes players create the habit to at least open the game once every day; a player who has opened the game has more chances of playing than one who didn't, just like someone who plays a bit is more likely to keep playing.

It also gives DE inflated numbers to boast which translates to the game being more visible and appealing as a business.

You can hate on it all you want, but i guess 400 logins is already as low as ot should ever go when we keep in mind the original 900 logins grind. Anything lower sounds like raw self entitlement.

[Traumtulpe]

The issue with Primed Sure Footed is an external one - there is no issue with the mod itself, at all.

The problem lies with the reworked knockdowns. Their animation is too long and slow, the time window to jump out of it is too narrow and obtuse. And this was done deliberately; The animations are too slow because there are mods that prevent it or speed it up.

Take a glaive and throw it; The animation is horribly slow. Feels like complete garbage. Because there are ways to speed it up DE felt the need to make the base ultra slow.

Simply put, you can fix any and all concerns about Primed Sure Footed by making the base knockdown not absolutely atrocious. This is what you should be asking of DE, to make it a game mechanic that players don't feel absolutely 100% forced to ignore at all costs.

[Merrcenary]

5 часов назад, (PSN)jaggerwanderer сказал:

It's all or nothing for a lot of newcomers when it comes to build diversity

newcomers shouldn't have access to "all" right away. thats why it gated behind 400 login days