Lets talk about new shield gate.

[.Sm0ke.]

Hi! I was doing some testing and found out, that new shield gating mechanism is not really useable. Old shield gate was fine, and already hard to do on some frames, thats why the usage of dragon key, now it is simply impossible on some frames and bad for others. This made already really under used frames just a generally bad choice to bring anywhere. Sacrificing a modslot is also just a bad idea, unless there is mod slots coming too, because very many frames are solid as they are, and without shieldgate, they cant go trough any endurance runs, or some frames even simplest missions. So can this be explained? Why shield gate was reworked like this? 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

the use of the dragon key was unintended exploit of shield gating, Dragon keys were design to penalise warframes. DE fixed that exploit by adding a cost to boosting shield gating via max lowering shields.

By rights DE did need to transfer the exploit to a mod and just added the added penalty to the dragon key (penalty is lowering max shields reduces gating duration)

[SDGDen]

it being worse ***was the point***

 

shieldgate was too strong, now it's not as strong and makes more sense to build for, plus you can now build for higher shields without effectively ruining your shield gate. 

 

also, in my experience, my survivability actually went up significantly, and i dont even try to abuse shieldgating or build for it at all.

[Traumtulpe]

17 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

shieldgate was too strong

Don't mind me, just playing Styanax making it completely impossible for my entire team to die even if we tried really hard. Or Revenant, with his engaging ability "you cannot ever die".

1.3 seconds of invulnerability for 50 energy, except poison still kills you and you can still be status procced, how incredible.

[.Sm0ke.]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

the use of the dragon key was unintended exploit of shield gating, Dragon keys were design to penalise warframes. DE fixed that exploit by adding a cost to boosting shield gating via max lowering shields.

By rights DE did need to transfer the exploit to a mod and just added the added penalty to the dragon key (penalty is lowering max shields reduces gating duration)

My point exactly, so we need to use all out of augur and brief respites? If the max shield capacity would be a stat constantly for the shieldgate, it would again be good, considering it takes 1150 shields to reach max 2.5 seconds, no other than shield tank frame would even go for that. So rn shieldgate doesnt let you die of the first hit, but to literally next one after it if you are not running all energy to shields mod? Also energy sustaining needs then some rework as well, considering it takes huge amount of time grinding eidolons to get energize to max, or it takes your wallet and emptys it for that, so there is no point. Frames that can get more energy easily like Trinity, Garuda or Citrine (didnt mention all but you ge the point) it becomes useable again. Then the next thing, now we need to break even bigger amount of shields to have shieldgate and if i got this correct, shields have now 20% more damage reduction so it makes it even harder to break them with one shot. we are not talking even about lvl 200 sp enemys doing it. Also we could cover some mods with archonshards, but again, then there needs to be more options for them to do. For a lot of frames, this was a huge nerf from point where i see it.

[SDGDen]

13 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Don't mind me, just playing Styanax making it completely impossible for my entire team to die even if we tried really hard. Or Revenant, with his engaging ability "you cannot ever die".

1.3 seconds of invulnerability for 50 energy, except poison still kills you and you can still be status procced, how incredible.

just because other things are *also* overpowered doesn't mean that anything except the most overpowered thing should be ignored. 

 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

To be clear items in your "gear" shouldnt effect your frame by passively equipping them "by design" - the exception is the dragon keys that are meant for opening Deimos vaults (at cost of a warframe stat penalty).

 

[Malurth]

my issue with the new DDK-esque mod is twofold:

1. does not solve the outstanding issue of "more shield is bad," meaning prime frames and relay shield buffs are still nerfs to the effectiveness of this build. this was literally the main issue with shield gating and it didn't get solved. should be capped to a flat value, not a multiplier on max shields

2. takes up a mod slot where it was before slotless. and I don't mean this in the sense of "WAAH NERFS" (just complaining about something I use/like getting less good), I mean it in the sense that the tradeoff between healthtanking and shieldgating just got a lot more lopsided. shieldgate was already a good tradeoff because you were able to crank more performance out of your frame in exchange for having to actively manage your shield to not die, as opposed to just braindead facetanking with less performance. now you get less performance anyway. also some builds that were quite tight on mod slots just got pretty significantly nerfed by this.

[ShogunGunshow]

Why is this in the general feedback section and not the patch feedback section where DE is much more likely to see it?

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, .Sm0ke. said:

Sacrificing a modslot is also just a bad idea, unless there is mod slots coming too, because very many frames are solid as they are, and without shieldgate, they cant go trough any endurance runs, or some frames even simplest missions.

Which frames can't get through the simplest missions now?  

Also I'm still playing with the new shield gating and can't say yet whether Catalyzed Shields is balanced well or not IMO.  But as far as using a mod slot goes, I think that most definitely was a good idea.

[.Sm0ke.]

 Have never used this forum before, didnt know where to put it. Best i can do.

Edited October 19, 2023 by .Sm0ke.
Quote did not go trough

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I think some specific examples might help your feedback. For example, when you had posted this, not much time had actually passed since update. What exactly were your testing and conclusions? How did you document them, how did you arrive to conclusions, and how did you compare these to prior testing? What is unusable now? 

You also want to be careful about how you frame ideas like "XYZ can't do this, its impossible now" because is it really impossible? Or are you exaggerating and trying to make an opinion you have, sound more credible and right? For example did you know only Revenant can do any Steel Path? Trying to use any other Warframe is impossible, its way too hard! Do you believe me? I never ran dedicated shield gate builds around DDK, and would do 2 hour Steel Path runs here and there with multiple different Warframes, (usually Disruption, Cascade and Survival, to give you an idea of enemy scaling), but also for transparency, I never cared much for level cap or longer runs. I usually prefer around 90 mins. 

Now, I am not claiming there aren't any flaws or issues with the changes. I haven't done enough testing, and, it would be hard for me to compare from before, because like I said... I never actually ever used DDK builds, and I wouldn't use this new Corrupted Mod equivalent either, so maybe that is a charge for the worse, but I am curious about what Warframes can't even do "the simplest" missions, or Endurance and your evidence around that, and how objective and measured your explanations, especially in regards to other variables. Not all player tactics, strategy, knowledge, skill level is the same. Did you use to be able to, but now can't? Could you give some examples of specific instances, like with gameplay or Warframe and mission type and what the enemy did? Like I know some players who make claims about the game, then I see their recorded gameplay, and they don't strafe or move, or take cover etc or their builds are inefficient and you can diagnose an issue, either within the game or maybe, something where the game could sincerely be improved. 

[BR31]

So. I'm ok with a normalization. Because it wasn't intuitive before.

More shields=better shieldgate.  Catal shields is a corrupted mod which makes the opposite mechanic.

But since it takes a mod slot slot now- i think overshields should build towards that mechanics as well. Even if
at not the same rate. With let's say a downwards curve, where you get the most benefit at the start and less later.

After the next console certification- overshields will be just ehp for tanking builds and won't do anything towards the gate,
the shield mechanics.

We'll see after the usage rates, but i think something extra should be given if you don't want to see an extreme
rev, overguard spam , invis and alike mechanics.