An Inaros rework by a (waaaay too) long time main. Expanding on the frame's favored playstyle.

[kerozen666]

So i've been maining our sand guy since summer 2016, and i have about 66% of my playtime with him. So, with all that experience, I just wanted to share some idea I got.

Currently, if one would describe the general idea behind Inaros, it would likely be a tank frame that traded a powerful kit for some passive sturdiness. Thus, we got a frame with incredible health and with powers centered around sustaining him and doing light CC. That then lead to many of use to use him as the tank he is, and make him this frame we can use to do anything, relas, and shoot without fear of dying. That part is the one I want to expand on, and to make him a great simple tank with focus on weapon use and QoL. and so, here's the changes:

 Stats would remain untouched, his health pool is just of, not having shield is a blessing thanks to rage and hunter adrenaline. armor could use a little buff on both versions, but works perfectly fine as is. Adding something to prevent overguard aquisition would be more than welcomed to avoid being shut down by a team member who just wanted to be kind

Dessication:
Honeslty perfect as it is. it's a quick cheap blind ability with decent range with the special quirk of going through walls. that paired with it's DoT let the ability provide a light wall hack, which complement well the more "run and gun" playstyle, since it tells you precisely where enemies are hiding. the only thing that could be worth adding would be a light highligh of enenies affected, but that's it
Augment. no need to change either

Devour:
this one gets a slight reshuffle. On tap cast, targets get put in sand as usual, but, now it also affect overguarded enemies, stripping them of their overguard. I feel this would still be relatively balanced for his dynamic, as it is single target, and on a frame who doesn't throw insane damage. The devouring part of the ability would be different, Inaros' scarab would be the ones thrown, devouring the target and emmiting a healing pulse. This change is because the current form of the ability is too static and is quite lengty just for heals, making it automatic solve this issue. Last Change to the ability would be that on held cast, instead of making the enemy come to you (slowly), you instead have inaros quickly moving to the target, providing a good mobility option.

Sandstorm:
This ability would get some fair alteration. Currently, it provide little damage, can by annoying for the team as it makes enemy fly around and hard to hit, and most importantly, prevents you from using anything else or reposition effectively. To rectify this, the ability would stay a channeled one, but would let inaros move around normaly as well as keeping his weapons. The ragdoll would be changed for a slow on ennemies stuck inside the storm as well as an accuracy debuff (like in a sandstorm), and provide active DR to allies standing in the zone. On holding to stop the ability, ennemies in the zone would get knocked woen and suck up to inaros. The visibility debuff that come with the ability can also stay, a fair price for the aura, and would also make Dessication only more useful.
Augment: stays the same, but would get the celestial clone treatment and proc the element of the weapon you got stashed.

Scarab Swarm:
this one gets a total replacement, but one that keeps the same spirit. It become a weapon and armor buff that would either be duration based, or act like Dagath's 3rd ability, grave spirit, and only stop on death. This new ability is instand cast, could cost health, and would combine the current armor buff to a simple yet efficient weapon boost derived from the base cast form. This buff would be the application of life steal on all weapon, in addition to a few meter of punch through (if not infinite), increaseed follow through, and a tiny smidge of true damage (fixed % to avoid bullet hose abuse) instead of corrosive, as sand, all meme aside, does get everywhere (i lives on the coast wehen little, belive me, it does). this could all then be delightfully accompanied by a simple light death prevention, a 2 sec-ish invincibility to let you recast it and stay on or go down.
Agument: stays relatively unchanged, you would still get your status immunity, but instead of using the now gone scarab reserve, it would use it's own little charge fuelled by your kills and assist, or even your overheal from the lifesteal

Passives:
the finisher healing would simply apply to all type of finisher, including mercy
Undying on the other hand... this is currently the most bothesome, since it doesn sclae and prevent the use of unairu's passive. To fix that, is a flashy way, the ability would remain the same in concept. You turn into your sarcophagus, but now, instead of your sand stream, your sand (or scarabs) pick up your secondary and you need to then get 2 kills to come back. Not as strong as Sevagoth's, but personally the cool factor make it works, and if paired with the proposed scarab swarm "invincibility on lethal damage", would also not become annoying in high enemy damage situation.

Now, this is just me sharing some ideas. I don't claim to be the one that will fix my favorite frame. I simply love him enough to want to share ideas that could eventually help him get better. If anyone on the staff reads this, I love what you do and hope you get a nice day today

Edited November 11, 2023 by kerozen666
more typos, clearer title

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

I like this one better than yesterday's

my suggested tweaks would be the Dessication's life steal to be based on damage to effected enemies.

So you throw pocket sand and heal based on enemies killed while being effected by it. 

For Devour I would like it changed to an AOE type sand trap. 

I've also loved the idea of Sand storm being a channeled aura over the current function.

The Scarab storm idea was one very similar to what I was thinking when I read yesterday's thread.

Instant cast cheat death ability. Although I would rather it just be infinite duration with no buffs other than more armor and cheating death for 2 seconds of invincibility.

Although a duration or drawback of some kind would help balance it. 

For the undying passive. I always thought it would be better for it to have a sacrifice type mechanic.  As in just one enemy you eat them or pull them into the casket. 

And their life is exchanged for yours. no damage numbers no scaling.  Just instant death (with the exception of overguarded/boss type enemies).  Then you come back with the max health of the killed enemy.  making it a full heal in high level content and a slight bit more dangerous in low level content but your armor and health values matter more there. 

[kerozen666]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Although a duration or drawback of some kind would help balance it. 

He is a shieldless frame. this would be his only way out of a one shot

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

3 minutes ago, kerozen666 said:

He is a shieldless frame. this would be his only way out of a one shot

Exactly.  I personally was looking it like this.

Same cast functionality. You sacrifice your health for an armor buff.

But the armor is infinite and when you die you go back up with half the damage of the killing blow as your health capped at your max.

So in high level content you can constantly recast it when one shot as long as you are paying attention.  But in lower level content you start lower and have to build yourself back up. 

I don't think infinite duration and just wearing it like a warding halo or Iron skin type thing would be OP. But your mention of it having a duration sounds fair. 

[kerozen666]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Exactly.  I personally was looking it like this.

Same cast functionality. You sacrifice your health for an armor buff.

But the armor is infinite and when you die you go back up with half the damage of the killing blow as your health capped at your max.

So in high level content you can constantly recast it when one shot as long as you are paying attention.  But in lower level content you start lower and have to build yourself back up. 

I don't think infinite duration and just wearing it like a warding halo or Iron skin type thing would be OP. But your mention of it having a duration sounds fair. 

even witout a duration, it would be more than alright, i belive. it's basicly a simple gating, just like a shield gate. Beside, staying on until it trigger fits more the laid back playstyle inaros has

[Famecans]

I think he needs a survival gate similar to what we have in nidus. some eximus units simply persist in hitting him and the health conversion of [Quick thinking] + [Gladiator Finess] fails after a certain level.

In particular, Blitz units are currently the most unbalanced bipedal enemy in the game, I have tests with lvl195, the build has the entire combination of damage reduction and one of the largest energy pools of all warframes, there are 600 energy points tested with 300 % conversion efficiency or 3x of 600 which is equivalent to 1800 health EHP, I do not intend to equip energy shards as the build is extremely expensive so blitz eximus simply ignores the drain as the damage is greater than the health points and all the accumulated damage reduction. Maybe this enemy needs damage adjustment.

Spoiler

 

I'm not sure if Nourish's multiplication solves this problem of energy points, but this seems like a bandaid to me as it is necessary to have an active time skill to maintain survivability. As I mentioned earlier, it is a very expensive build just to stay alive on a warframe without a shield or survival gates.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Famecans

[kerozen666]

39 minutes ago, Famecans said:

I think he needs a survival gate similar to what we have in nidus. some eximus units simply persist in hitting him and the health conversion of [Quick thinking] + [Gladiator Finess] fails after a certain level.

In particular, Blitz units are currently the most unbalanced bipedal enemy in the game, I have tests with lvl195, the build has the entire combination of damage reduction and one of the largest energy pools of all warframes, there are 600 energy points tested with 300 % conversion efficiency or 3x of 600 which is equivalent to 1800 health EHP, I do not intend to equip energy shards as the build is extremely expensive so blitz eximus simply ignores the drain as the damage is greater than the health points and all the accumulated damage reduction. Maybe this enemy needs damage adjustment.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'm not sure if Nourish's multiplication solves this problem of energy points, but this seems like a bandaid to me as it is necessary to have an active time skill to maintain survivability. As I mentioned earlier, it is a very expensive build just to stay alive on a warframe without a shield or survival gates.

there is one survival gate with the proposed changes to scarab swarm, on top of some death prevention with the updated passive. I bewlive this rework does cover all the issues te frame currently has.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Idk about this rework.

I can agree about pocket sand throw staying as is but that's about it.

Inaros has the ability to make sand clones out of his enemies as of now, which makes sense thematically, but generating them brings him nothing, why not have it fixed? He's possessing enemies with a curse. Naturally, it doesn't need to be like Nyx or Rev, but keeping the mechanic would be great, if revamped.

His 4 currently is his defensive ability, which I think should be swapped around with his 3, which has more dps potential. In addition, it should be reworked to be closer to something like a sand armor, not unlike a certain hidden sand ninja, probably granting some sort of overguard to go with 2023 standards.

The sandstorm blinding enemies would probably be a better cc than inaccuracy, or at least more reliable, as long as you keep a reasonable range on it (though let's face it, it CANNOT be just that, as that's literally just Gara's passive), adding decent scaling damage on sandstorm should help.

 

The one thing I don't want out of Inaros is being just a phat health bar with nothing to offer in terms of support or damage and lacking any originality.

[kerozen666]

13 minutes ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Idk about this rework.

I can agree about pocket sand throw staying as is but that's about it.

Inaros has the ability to make sand clones out of his enemies as of now, which makes sense thematically, but generating them brings him nothing, why not have it fixed? He's possessing enemies with a curse. Naturally, it doesn't need to be like Nyx or Rev, but keeping the mechanic would be great, if revamped.

His 4 currently is his defensive ability, which I think should be swapped around with his 3, which has more dps potential. In addition, it should be reworked to be closer to something like a sand armor, not unlike a certain hidden sand ninja, probably granting some sort of overguard to go with 2023 standards.

The sandstorm blinding enemies would probably be a better cc than inaccuracy, or at least more reliable, as long as you keep a reasonable range on it (though let's face it, it CANNOT be just that, as that's literally just Gara's passive), adding decent scaling damage on sandstorm should help.

 

The one thing I don't want out of Inaros is being just a phat health bar with nothing to offer in terms of support or damage and lacking any originality.

it is true that this rework doesn't do much with those shadows, but it's false that they bring nothing. the issue they have right now is that they are hard to create. if his second ability would guarantee a kill after X tick, that would already make the shadows better, as by their mere existance, divert fire from your team. Maybe giving them a smidge of true damage on them akin to my 4th would make them better. 

as for therest of his kit, i'll trust my 7 years of experience and confirm that he is way more interesting as a weapon platform than a frame that do ability damage. Also forget the idea of giving him Overguard. His lack of shields give him one of the best energy regen thanks to rage, if you give him OG, you not only make his hp gimmick a joke and something not even worth investing in, but you also force him into building with energy in mind rather than be able to slap one mod and be done with it. 

[BoredFinno]

Greetings, seeing you as an experienced inaros main, i am curious if you have read other rework idea threads here and specifically, what's your opinion on the one i came up with? I feel our reworks have quite a few similarities and aim at a pretty similar goal and an opinion of someone who plays him a lot would be valuable to me personally. Some oversights were already commented on and i am yet to think of a fix (tho i feel it could be something very simple), but the whole idea of the thread was to get some feedback and maybe couple of better changes. Here is a link if you are interested (answer there or here if you do, wherever you'd prefer).

I completely agree that overguard shouldnt be in any part of his kit, as having another overguard tank would be quite uninspiring, as we already have quite a few. I like your sandstorm idea and the outline youd get on his 1. Devour seems like an interesting spin on the ability , but im not sure i personally like it. For undying passive, i saw in some thread about inaros pulling an enemy into his sarcophagus to devour them and i think that one is even cooler (maybe even the coolest S#&$) than sand picking up secondary, i dont remember what was the idea of how that would scale and work exactly.  I also liked someones idea to turn his sand into some kind of an anti-dying mechanic, but i think that whole rework strayed too far from what inaros is and could be right now. I also dont really like his 4 here, as it just sound too similar to how dagath's work. I also think than not every frame needs to be able to be taken to level cap as not many players even venture there. The lifesteal also kinda defeats the whole point of his finisher passive. You could argue that arcane grace does as well, but grace isnt tied to his kit, while this lifesteal is. Someone mentioned something about damage attenuation being on inaros and i think that could be his new way of preventing oneshots if we are gonna talk about him possibly being able to play at level cap.

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by BoredFinno

[kerozen666]

10 minutes ago, BoredFinno said:

Greetings, seeing you as an experienced inaros main, i am curious if you have read other rework idea threads here and specifically, what's your opinion on the one i came up with? I feel our reworks have quite a few similarities and aim at a pretty similar goal and an opinion of someone who plays him a lot would be valuable to me personally. Some oversights were already commented on and i am yet to think of a fix (tho i feel it could be something very simple), but the whole idea of the thread was to get some feedback and maybe couple of better changes. Here is a link if you are interested (answer there or here if you do, wherever you'd prefer).

I completely agree that overguard shouldnt be in any part of his kit, as having another overguard tank would be quite uninspiring, as we already have quite a few. I like your sandstorm idea and the outline youd get on his 1. Devour seems like an interesting spin on the ability , but im not sure i personally like it. For undying passive, i saw in some thread about inaros pulling an enemy into his sarcophagus to devour them and i think that one is even cooler (maybe even the coolest S#&$) than sand picking up secondary, i dont remember what was the idea of how that would scale and work exactly.  I also liked someones idea to turn his sand into some kind of an anti-dying mechanic, but i think that whole rework strayed too far from what inaros is and could be right now. I also dont really like his 4 here, as it just sound too similar to how dagath's work. I also think than not every frame needs to be able to be taken to level cap as not many players even venture there. The lifesteal also kinda defeats the whole point of his finisher passive. You could argue that arcane grace does as well, but grace isnt tied to his kit, while this lifesteal is. Someone mentioned something about damage attenuation being on inaros and i think that could be his new way of preventing oneshots if we are gonna talk about him possibly being able to play at level cap.

 

The sarcophagus eating up someone do be the coolest, but it would be very dependant on the execution on wheter it's good or not. if yhe pull to the coffin is slow and/or doesn't protect it from being killed by allies, it's going to turn into public squad nidus 2.0. i made devour that way so that you would be able to have a decent mobility option, and one that can be very fun to use with sandstom. As for is 4th, i did play Dagath recently, but the idea predate her, and it's not even the first time, other idea i had for inaros' rework ended up being part of another frame's kit more than once. But to go back to the point, the goal was to combine Nidus' undying with someting more active to avoid loosing that laid back playstile where you really don't have to monitor things. the life steal does make the finisher passive useless tho, no denying that. I wanted some redundant healing so that you could technicly have any slot subsumable and not screw yourself out of healing and not be dependant on grace to regen well. Would be worth checking on the passive, since right now, it's not as great considreing you need to spec into finisher damage to be able to do them reliably with inaros. i'll still stand with my 4th idea. it's simply scarab swarm, but now in a usable, simple, quick and effective form. it's scarab leeching life, going everywhere, not caring about armor, and protecting your life

as for your rework, i'll coment there, but i'll say it here too, i really love your curse.