Tenet Diplos should let you keep firing while locked on instead of shooting 2 shots per target

[Redrigoth]

What the title says. As it is right now, the 2 shots fired do no damage and cant kill anything past lv30 or so. Essentially the gun is just another full auto pistol. It doesn't need to be this way. It should be a unique weapon that is actually viable to play so it should let you lock onto your targets and then maintain lock-on as long as you hold aim and then let you fire as many bullets as you want that will seek out the closest locked on target.

This would not be overpowered. It would be similar damage output to any other weapon except it lets you choose to split your damage among multiple targets or one. Or fire around a corner as long as you have lock-on. It would also be a useful weapon for dealing with situations where the target is being flailed around such as in Khora's cage or with other slippery enemies.

Why should anyone use this gun in its current state? Tenet plinx does big single target damage with a pull and explosion. Incarnon secondaries all do good damage and have good mechanics. Random other secondaries serve a function like forced procs or aoe damage or priming the target with many status effects.

Make tenet diplos relevant. I want to aim glide with Mirage and rain headshotting bullets on enemies as i fly by. Give it an extra 3% base status chance while we're at it too

Edited November 13, 2023 by Redrigoth

[Fred_Avant_2019]

I wish the Diplos mechanic was just removed. It just hinders the gun more than it benefits it. An otherwise really good secondary with great stats just gets screwed by a gimmick that benefits nobody.

[Redrigoth]

7 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

I wish the Diplos mechanic was just removed. It just hinders the gun more than it benefits it. An otherwise really good secondary with great stats just gets screwed by a gimmick that benefits nobody.

We already have plenty full auto dual pistols. The mechanic is what makes it unique. You can still use it as a normal full auto if you start firing before aiming

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Le 15/11/2023 à 01:25, Redrigoth a dit :

We already have plenty full auto dual pistols. The mechanic is what makes it unique. You can still use it as a normal full auto if you start firing before aiming

I know, I wish I wasn't forced to do so. Having the auto lock mechanic be triggered feature through alt fire would've made it less annoying.

[Redrigoth]

DE, just change the integer from 2 bullets to 20 if you want an easy patch.

[snoozecruise]

This gun is arguably made for Mirage since her lack of defense skills encourages highly acrobatic and movement-based play, i.e. moving fast and being airborne a lot, since that greatly reduces enemy accuracy. The secondary auto-lock lets her easily lock onto many targets while airborne, with greatly enhanced power compared to other frames that use this. And this is arguable, but the quick-switch alt-fire makes it a bit quicker to use than having to fumble with a select-fire mode every time. This is basically the super-upgrade to Akzani... because let's be honest -- an Akzani Prime would probably just end up being fodder and a waste of game assets and dev time.

Increasing the number of alt-fire shots would make this ridiculous on her, since her clones triple her projectile count. Instead of a typical barrage of 10 (2x5) for most frames, you get up to 30 (2x5x3). Increasing the burst count increases that by 15 each time! Angle the shots upwards, and you can easily get effortless headshots, and while airborne too. Not to mention, it looks really cool to see the projectiles arc and sweep down like one of those crazy anime Macross missile barrages.

And the idea of having a permanent lock-on auto fire just sounds kinda ridiculously overpowered, so I don't know about that, especially since anyone could get stupidly easy headshots this way... as if much of the game isn't already easy enough. These sorts of advantages are supposed to come with drawbacks, and people can choose to not use them, or use different weapons. The Sepulcrum alt-fire is crazy strong, but needs charges and an awkward select-fire mode... but it's still one of my favorite guns.

I use Mirage a lot, and while I actually don't use Diplos often, I still think it's fine as it is. I think it's nice to have a variety of weapons, even if some of them are more niche usage -- which is a big part of why I love the secondary weapons in this game. Kuva Twin Stubbas are on the same dps level as this, I think, so that's an alternate option. Or maybe just petition them to add more cool dual auto-pistols? I don't think we have a battery-powered dual yet, do we? Or maybe they can add one where each gun has a different effect?

[Salenstormwing]

I just wish the Diplos was half as good and fun as Deep Rock Galactic's Lok-1 Smart Rifle.

If it worked EXACTLY like the Lok-1, I'd love the Diplos.

 

[Divinehero]

ikr.. it's what kills the gun for me i prefer to ADS when firing and having to start firing BEFORE i aim annoys me cuz they for some insane reason made it only fire 2 shots per when aiming.. if the lockon shots did ALOT more dmg maybe but as is? it's total garbage

Edited November 21, 2023 by Divinehero

[Redrigoth]

5 hours ago, snoozecruise said:

This gun is arguably made for Mirage since her lack of defense skills encourages highly acrobatic and movement-based play, i.e. moving fast and being airborne a lot, since that greatly reduces enemy accuracy. The secondary auto-lock lets her easily lock onto many targets while airborne, with greatly enhanced power compared to other frames that use this. And this is arguable, but the quick-switch alt-fire makes it a bit quicker to use than having to fumble with a select-fire mode every time. This is basically the super-upgrade to Akzani... because let's be honest -- an Akzani Prime would probably just end up being fodder and a waste of game assets and dev time.

Increasing the number of alt-fire shots would make this ridiculous on her, since her clones triple her projectile count. Instead of a typical barrage of 10 (2x5) for most frames, you get up to 30 (2x5x3). Increasing the burst count increases that by 15 each time! Angle the shots upwards, and you can easily get effortless headshots, and while airborne too. Not to mention, it looks really cool to see the projectiles arc and sweep down like one of those crazy anime Macross missile barrages.

And the idea of having a permanent lock-on auto fire just sounds kinda ridiculously overpowered, so I don't know about that, especially since anyone could get stupidly easy headshots this way... as if much of the game isn't already easy enough. These sorts of advantages are supposed to come with drawbacks, and people can choose to not use them, or use different weapons. The Sepulcrum alt-fire is crazy strong, but needs charges and an awkward select-fire mode... but it's still one of my favorite guns.

I use Mirage a lot, and while I actually don't use Diplos often, I still think it's fine as it is. I think it's nice to have a variety of weapons, even if some of them are more niche usage -- which is a big part of why I love the secondary weapons in this game. Kuva Twin Stubbas are on the same dps level as this, I think, so that's an alternate option. Or maybe just petition them to add more cool dual auto-pistols? I don't think we have a battery-powered dual yet, do we? Or maybe they can add one where each gun has a different effect?

 No it would not be overpowered. You can force an unlimited amount of headshots with far stronger weapons if you use Scourge Prime. You can easily land a headshot that will one shot a target with Nataruk, you can melt a swarm of enemies with body shots if you use any of the incarnon guns that rikochet. You can fire a toxin/slash aoe weapon and wipe out a whole area. I have guns that can clear a whole room by the time diplos's seeking bullets finally hit their targets (half of which get hit on the body because enemies move and turn or have heads in varying places). If you lock onto a single target and spray away, it would do the same dps as if you had just stood there and manually aimed and fire at the target's head. The only difference is you will miss less shots in exchange for some of them going into the body rather than the head depending on the target's anatomy and behavior. Is this overpowered? Not missing the odd bullet? And if you choose to target multiple enemies you end up depleting your magazine fast and having to reload every 2 seconds if you have too many locked on targets (or use ammo efficiency arcane or helminth to compensate for this weakness at the expense of your arcane/helminth slot). Your choice on how to distribute your damage. it's perfectly balanced. other guns have more status, cc, priming, damage. This gun would have more utility.

You're telling me a low status chance, low base damage sub-machine gun that seeks enemy centered(not even their head unless a few of the marked targets align with your angle at the moment) is overpowered because it might have better accuracy and might headshot a little more? And your balance argument is based on mirage? Should we nerf all weapons because mirage can significantly amplify damage output?

Currently the gun is useless past lower levels unless you want to stand there and hip-fire-transition-to-aim one target's head at a time. Grineer have too much armor and take zero damage, you might consider building for toxin against corpus but you only get 2 shots and the gun's base status chance is like 10% so forget about it and use a proper toxin weapon, and for infested, the damage just sucks either way and you can forget about landing headshots since each infested has a head in a random place and they all run around like they have a seizure. And for corrupted it is a mix of all the above.

Also kuva twin stubbas are not on the same dps level as this. Build it with heat, it has IPS, corrosive, magnetic progenitor, and a panzer vulpaphyla and you got 7 status effects for 820% galvanized shot.

What's unique or diverse about Diplos other than its seeking which is useless due to the 2 round limit? It is purely a crit weapon and head shots is the only thing it is good for and its mechanic that might assist with that and enable it to ht more than 1 target is busted. Without the lock-on being made viable, you might as well just use aksomati or athodai, or azima, or the other 5 full auto pistols if you want to stand there and full-auto heads one by one. If it only becomes almost viable on one frame then it ain't a good weapon.

This is a relatively new weapon not obsolete mastery fodder and should be competitive with other options. There is no situation where this is the best gun to use.

I'm tired of the Everything-Is-Fine Andy coming up with copium super specific barely viable scenarios to claim an obviously bad thing is good and fine. "Oh mirage and her 1500% damage amplification can do damage with it so it is balanced!".

 

 

4 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I just wish the Diplos was half as good and fun as Deep Rock Galactic's Lok-1 Smart Rifle.

If it worked EXACTLY like the Lok-1, I'd love the Diplos.

 

Yes, this is how it should be. Would give it a proper identity and a good reason to use the weapon and make it viable on any frame.
Right now I can use incarnon kunai for guaranteed and much stronger headshots.

Can use incarnon lex for a super strong aoe forced slash proc.

Can use incarnon dual toxocyst/bronco/Lato for big aoe damage,

Can use sporelacer or akarius or incarnon despair for no aim needed big damage aoe

incarnon angstrum for high status high crit bouncy balls

Kuva twin stubbas for single target melting

Nukor/cycron for beam chain cc and big status damage and priming

Ogris, detron, Pyrana, vasto incarnon for big single target damage

Tenet spirex for long range single headshot with forced proc

Tenet plinx or Laetum for headshot/big headshot+aoe

(insert more weapons with useful functionality here)

Why would I use Diplos instead of any of the above? What can it do that the above can't? Shoot seeking marshmallows at multiple targets that only have a chance at killing anything if used by a frame that massively buffs dps but only under steel path lv150?

Edited November 21, 2023 by Redrigoth

[Tiltskillet]

59 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

(not even their head unless a few of the marked targets align with your angle at the moment

I don't have Diplos, but with Cyanex homing just elevating the aim point results in a lot of headshots.

[Redrigoth]

28 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't have Diplos, but with Cyanex homing just elevating the aim point results in a lot of headshots.

cyanex homing is 15 degrees. and it is single target. You have to be aiming generally at an enemy's head and you'll get your headshot. Diplos has seeking bullets on lock on so you can shoot anywhere as long as target is on the screen and it goes to the target. It lets you lock onto 8 targets max now and fires only 2 shots per target regardless of how many locked on targets you have. Yes you can aim up to get headshot if you are single targeting but for multi target, many will hit enemies from their side or whatever.

Diplos's seeking bullets is its unique point but it does it poorly and its damage output is sad. Base damage is 24. 2 bullets is 48. Even with all the mod multipliers it is still too weak to properly kill anything that isn't squishy. that's the argument I'm making. It has a good unique ability in its seeking but it needs to be made viable.

Cyanex has the gas explosion(gas procs headshot multiplier if the proc was made on the head btw) on top of the minor homing and it can bounce bullets and it can do a mag dump, it also has Hemmorhage synergy since its is 100% impact on the bullet itself before it explodes. The only thing diplos has is its seeking bullets and it does that poorly which is why it needs to be improved by removing that 2 bullet limit. Then it becomes a fully auto pistol like any other but with seeking bullets, instead of a fully auto pistol with a useless gimmick that interferes with regular aiming (you lock onto targets by aiming and moving reticle over them so if you want to spray normally you have to start hip firing THEN aim to avoid the lock on). Diplos has very low status chance but high crit and fire rate with low damage per shot so the way to use it is a crit build and you want to always aim for the head. Its aim mechanic interferes with normal aiming so that interferes with this purpose a little bit and its lock on only fire 2 shots which also defeats this purpose of spraying the head.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Redrigoth

[Salenstormwing]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't have Diplos, but with Cyanex homing just elevating the aim point results in a lot of headshots.

I prefer the Cyanex to Diplos 24-7, 8 days a week. It's easier to use, it has better overall performance, you can use it with a glaive while the Diplos is two secondaries so no Secondary+Glaive combo, and the Cyanex is STILL super easy to use. It's stupid easy. It's great, especially with a Glaive.

The Diplos need a boost in performance and maybe a rework. Why it can't work like the Lok-1 from DRG, I don't know. It's so useful. You hold down the trigger, and then highlight enemies inside the camera's view, with multiple seconds stacking for more bullets to a target. Release to kill all the bugs and it'll even stop shooting if you overkill a target, so you don't waste bullets.

This is where I just want DE to ask DRG what they did and do that. Rock & Forma, Brothers!

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

I prefer the Cyanex to Diplos 24-7, 8 days a week. It's easier to use, it has better overall performance, you can use it with a glaive while the Diplos is two secondaries so no Secondary+Glaive combo, and the Cyanex is STILL super easy to use. It's stupid easy. It's great, especially with a Glaive.

I wasn't trying to bring Cyanex into this, or taking any stand on Diplos at all.  I was just pointing out an interesting tactic that the person I was responding to might not have been aware of, and I believe that turned out to not be the case.

I guess I'm just glad I didn't bring up Sepulcrum... :P

 

[Salenstormwing]

16 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I wasn't trying to bring Cyanex into this, or taking any stand on Diplos at all.  I was just pointing out an interesting tactic that the person I was responding to might not have been aware of, and I believe that turned out to not be the case.

I guess I'm just glad I didn't bring up Sepulcrum... :P

 

Oh, it's quite alright. I just like the Cyanex. It just out performs the Diplos and is easier to use. I think if we're gunna talk auto-targeting weapons, it's a valid discussion to say "This one is GREAT while this other one SUCKS".

And... I forget what the Sepulcrum does. I haven't picked it for mission use in YEARS. Which is a real shame because I love the Trumna so much, and it's from the same time period.

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

Oh, it's quite alright. I just like the Cyanex. It just out performs the Diplos and is easier to use. I think if we're gunna talk auto-targeting weapons, it's a valid discussion to say "This one is GREAT while this other one SUCKS".

And... I forget what the Sepulcrum does. I haven't picked it for mission use in YEARS. Which is a real shame because I love the Trumna so much, and it's from the same time period.

Sepulcrum has an altfire lock-on mode that's accessible once you get 5 kills with the primary fire.  Radial damage, radius, crit, crit damage, and status go way up in that mode. Extremely engaging, and one of my favorite and most used weapons.  Cyanex is way up there too, although I find its homing mode more convenient but not anywhere near as satisfying as Sepulcrum's.

[Redrigoth]

47 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Sepulcrum has an altfire lock-on mode that's accessible once you get 5 kills with the primary fire.  Radial damage, radius, crit, crit damage, and status go way up in that mode. Extremely engaging, and one of my favorite and most used weapons.  Cyanex is way up there too, although I find its homing mode more convenient but not anywhere near as satisfying as Sepulcrum's.

Diplos's lock-on is the same as Sepelcrum except sepulcrum fires things with boosted damage, crit, status, aoe explosion, while diplos fire 2 regular old shots that will barely do anything.
watch this video. Notice that sustained fire is good damage(if you can keep getting head-shots because here enemies are standing around) but see how the lock on is so weak?

If the lock-on could also do sustained fire then it would be good. It may not land head-shots if you focus too many targets since each will have different orientation but it would but up to you to manage how to distribute your shots depending on level, faction, number of locked on, ammo economy, etc.

Lock-on would also help you land the needed head-shots against a single target while being able to move instead of standing still so you can land shots and then die because you are in in lv250 steel path. Removing the 2 shot limit from lock-on would be perfect and balanced (same number of bullets will hit either way, you just miss less and can move properly while fighting). it would be such a nice and fun gun.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Redrigoth

[Salenstormwing]

On 2023-11-22 at 11:41 AM, Tiltskillet said:

Sepulcrum has an altfire lock-on mode that's accessible once you get 5 kills with the primary fire.  Radial damage, radius, crit, crit damage, and status go way up in that mode. Extremely engaging, and one of my favorite and most used weapons.  Cyanex is way up there too, although I find its homing mode more convenient but not anywhere near as satisfying as Sepulcrum's.

I tried the Sepulcrum since I haven't really used it since it came out and...  I find it's alt-fire annoying to use because it only can lock up to 5 folks and you end up just not doing a lot while you wait to gather the locks. And with Stuff Dies Fast Frame going on, it's just easier to fire and forget with the Cyanex, even if the explosions aren't nearly as cool.

The Sepulcrum would be better with a 'Camera' view where you could aim CLOSE to an enemy like the Lok-1 from DRG instead of having to swipe over what I want to shoot. Seriously, more lock-on weapons working like the Lok-1 would be amazing and make stuff feel better. And then I'd probably enjoy the Sepulcrum if they changed it to work more like it.

[PollexMessier]

On 2023-11-21 at 4:50 AM, Salenstormwing said:

I just wish the Diplos was half as good and fun as Deep Rock Galactic's Lok-1 Smart Rifle.

If it worked EXACTLY like the Lok-1, I'd love the Diplos.

 

Bro same. Genuinely my favorite gun in pretty much all of gaming.

[Hexerin]

On 2023-11-21 at 4:50 AM, Salenstormwing said:

I just wish the Diplos was half as good and fun as Deep Rock Galactic's Lok-1 Smart Rifle.

If it worked EXACTLY like the Lok-1, I'd love the Diplos.

 

It's just a shame that it's gimped by a low ammo pool and poor damage breakpoints. It's not bad, but you're suffering a significant loss in performance (which is bad from a teamwork perspective) by using it over the other two primaries.

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I tried the Sepulcrum since I haven't really used it since it came out and...  I find it's alt-fire annoying to use because it only can lock up to 5 folks and you end up just not doing a lot while you wait to gather the locks.

For faster paced play I just wait until there are a bunch of targets, activate lock on mode, sweep the cursor across them, and let the micro-missiles fly.  If I don't get 5 targets locked, I don't sweat it at all.   I spend most of my time solo, but this works well enough in a lot of squads.  Not the ones that make everything evaporate instantly, but there are tons of weapons that will have problems in those situations.

8 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

The Sepulcrum would be better with a 'Camera' view where you could aim CLOSE to an enemy like the Lok-1 from DRG instead of having to swipe over what I want to shoot.

I dug around a bit looking at gameplay for that weapon, and it looks fun.  But I love the Sepulcrum very much as is.   So I'd rather DE do that experiment with a new weapon.  At least to start out with.

 

[supernils]

I like the fact that is has this gimmick. It is too weak to be of use though so it's more of a hindrance.

2 ways to fix this:

1. leave the target lock until the target dies, allowing to shoot multiple bursts while locked on

2. instead of burst when locked on, full auto

I'd prefer the second.