Armor strip needs to be standardised so that it works consistently across all enemies.

[PollexMessier]

This has been an issue with the game for literally years and it's REALLY annoying. Some enemies are immune to the armor strip of some abilities, but not others. And it's not even consistent what abilities are effective and which aren't between different enemies like this.

Everything that has any level of armor strip resistance is immune to Fire blast for some ungodly reason. One of the most cumbersome armor strip abilities to use on it's parent frame because of how obscenely energy hungry ember is and it's reliance on her heat meter. Is entirely outclassed on every other frame by Pillage, which also works on nearly everything and gives you a massive survivability boost. Genuinely stupid. It's not just inconsistent, but entirely unbalanced. And the only way to know what enemies are entirely immune to what abilities is pure trial and error, or look it up on the wiki.

Every ability that says it strips armor, should do so consistently across all of them. If one ability works on an acolite, all of them do. An angel? All of them. No ifs ands or buts. I should not have to play russian roulette every time I enter a mission with one of these inconsistently resistant enemies every time I want to try out a new frame.

It's PARTICULARLY stupid with acolites, because that entirely determines if a frame is viable for steel path or not. Some frames are just, completely locked out of steel path due to acolites having an incredibly arbitrary and senseless resistance to their armor strip specifically.

[TARINunit9]

32 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

Everything that has any level of armor strip resistance is immune to Fire blast for some ungodly reason.

I'd love to know more about this because the wiki only says Acolytes are immune to it

[Loza03]

Armour needs to be changed outright so that enemies actually scale at the same rate as each other. Preferably alongside modding being changed so that weapons, abilities, Z-kids and Arch-Guns scale at the same rate, preferably one actually related to the rate enemy defenses scale. 

 

The idea that maybe the maths across the game should be consistent should not be a controversial one.

[Tiltskillet]

I don't need total consistency in armor strips, but I'd like more consistency, and more information in game.  I don't mind if some armor strips don't work on VIPs. But I'd like it tightened up and spelled out so I know what to expect.   And what to bug report.

(I don't find the lack of an armor strip that works on Acolytes to be a categorical dealbreaker for SP, but I'm going to guess that's just being dramatic.)

[DezerayTwT]

11 часов назад, PollexMessier сказал:

This has been an issue with the game for literally years and it's REALLY annoying. Some enemies are immune to the armor strip of some abilities, but not others. And it's not even consistent what abilities are effective and which aren't between different enemies like this.

Everything that has any level of armor strip resistance is immune to Fire blast for some ungodly reason. One of the most cumbersome armor strip abilities to use on it's parent frame because of how obscenely energy hungry ember is and it's reliance on her heat meter. Is entirely outclassed on every other frame by Pillage, which also works on nearly everything and gives you a massive survivability boost. Genuinely stupid. It's not just inconsistent, but entirely unbalanced. And the only way to know what enemies are entirely immune to what abilities is pure trial and error, or look it up on the wiki.

Every ability that says it strips armor, should do so consistently across all of them. If one ability works on an acolite, all of them do. An angel? All of them. No ifs ands or buts. I should not have to play russian roulette every time I enter a mission with one of these inconsistently resistant enemies every time I want to try out a new frame.

It's PARTICULARLY stupid with acolites, because that entirely determines if a frame is viable for steel path or not. Some frames are just, completely locked out of steel path due to acolites having an incredibly arbitrary and senseless resistance to their armor strip specifically.

Well done for covering such a topic, when I myself made builds using the Ember ability, I often wondered why it does not work for stalker acolytes, the same situation with the Nekros ability, his ability is very strong and almost ideal for some warframes, BUT AGAIN, for some reason it does not work for stalker acolytes, DE It's high time to fix this.

[DezerayTwT]

10 часов назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

I don't need total consistency in armor strips, but I'd like more consistency, and more information in game.  I don't mind if some armor strips don't work on VIPs. But I'd like it tightened up and spelled out so I know what to expect.   And what to bug report.

(I don't find the lack of an armor strip that works on Acolytes to be a categorical dealbreaker for SP, but I'm going to guess that's just being dramatic.)

It looks like double standards, when the armor reduction abilities of some warframes work, for some reason others do not, if they introduce enemies with armor that cannot be removed, let no one remove it, and those abilities that can remove armor should ALL work for enemies who can remove armor, in my opinion this it would be more fair.

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, DezerayTwT said:

It looks like double standards, when the armor reduction abilities of some warframes work, for some reason others do not, if they introduce enemies with armor that cannot be removed, let no one remove it, and those abilities that can remove armor should ALL work for enemies who can remove armor, in my opinion this it would be more fair.

I can understand feeling it's unfair.  But to me, they're more than anything else, just differences.  Different abilities do similar things but have distinct characteristics.  Terrify doesn't strip Acolytes but it isn't hampered by LoS, which most armor strips are.  Some strips do damage, some don't. Some strip shields, some don't.  Pillage restores shields and Tharros Strike health while the others mostly don't.  Etc.  I don't need all strips to work the same, any more than I need all damage abilities to have the same base numbers or do the same damage type or be as effective on the same enemies.

Which is not to say that I find armor strips perfectly balanced: I don't.   Pillage is too strong as a Helminth ability compared to (Seeking) Shuriken, Oberon's strip is too restrictive Polarize strip might as well not exist...I could go on.

Although fair or not,  none of these differences and imbalances would be "double standards" AFAIC.  Not unless DE was discriminating against certain frames on the basis of race, gender, class, or ethnicity.  Hopefully you're not trying to imply that. :P

[DezerayTwT]

1 час назад, Tiltskillet сказал:

I can understand feeling it's unfair.  But to me, they're more than anything else, just differences.  Different abilities do similar things but have distinct characteristics.  Terrify doesn't strip Acolytes but it isn't hampered by LoS, which most armor strips are.  Some strips do damage, some don't. Some strip shields, some don't.  Pillage restores shields and Tharros Strike health while the others mostly don't.  Etc.  I don't need all strips to work the same, any more than I need all damage abilities to have the same base numbers or do the same damage type or be as effective on the same enemies.

Which is not to say that I find armor strips perfectly balanced: I don't.   Pillage is too strong as a Helminth ability compared to (Seeking) Shuriken, Oberon's strip is too restrictive Polarize strip might as well not exist...I could go on.

Although fair or not,  none of these differences and imbalances would be "double standards" AFAIC.  Not unless DE was discriminating against certain frames on the basis of race, gender, class, or ethnicity.  Hopefully you're not trying to imply that. :P

Oh, of course not. To complete the picture, I will give an example. Now more and more special opponents are starting to appear in the warframe, which put players in almost equal conditions, for example, Archons and The Fragmented, abilities do not work on these enemies with very rare exceptions. (if the ability deals damage, but the damage being dealt is not and is not registered as damage from abilities, for example 3 Yareli ability)

I can also name Overguard as an example of a well-implemented defensive mechanics for the enemy, because this protection does not give any concessions or exceptions for warframes, it works equally well for everyone. (I know that there are Rhino and Wisp abilities, but I consider them just an uncorrected flaw)

I can admit that almost all abilities that are somehow related to armor reduction, they all work in different ways, BUT usually when there is a mechanic that does something specific and there are abilities that use this mechanic, they should use it with the same effectiveness, which I have to introduce - we have abilities that remove armor for everyone WITHOUT exception, for whom they can work, let's say the ability of Hildryn and Styanax and enemies like stalker acolytes for these abilities are not exceptions, BUT we have other abilities, for example the ability of Ember and Nekros, which use the same mechanics of removing armor, but for some reason are exceptions are for stalker acolytes.

Even for enemies who have the ability to adapt to abilities (like bosses) they are not exceptions. From which I can only draw 1 conclusion - some armor removal abilities simply do NOT work CORRECTLY, that's all.

I'm not against enemies who have a resistance to armor removal abilities, it's just that if these enemies are, again, the same stalker acolytes, then let no armor removal work for them, as for the archon, it would just be honest.

It seems to me that DE simply do not know about this, or for some reason do not want to fix it, but common sense tells me that what we have now is simply not normal and needs to be corrected.

[Xzorn]

It sounds like the made up difference designed to make some frames more viable years back.

I believe they called it "Base Armor Value Strip" where as all before used Total Armor Value Strip. Mathematically there's no difference.

Only in the code does it make any difference. Stripping 50% armor then doing it again should result in 25% armor remaining. Given the ability stacks which also wasn't a thing until they made up the new rule. Some frames can strip 50% then 50% for 100%. Others can't. Very much a cherry picking situation.

It's similar to the changes made to Chroma that were called a bug when it was inconvenient.

 

Vex Armor

• Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative. Boosts now apply before upgrades instead of after, making the ability consistent with all other damage boosting abilities.

[traybong111]

On 2024-01-16 at 8:09 PM, TARINunit9 said:

I'd love to know more about this because the wiki only says Acolytes are immune to it

Most "bosses" are immune to Fire Blast armor strip, including Acolytes, Lichs and Sisters, all variants of Demolysts, and some Star Chart bosses. 

Yet more nonsense Ember has to deal with because being Ember is suffering.