There is zero reason for Warframe to still be peer to peer in 2024

[Zaydin]

Make proper servers already, DE. The game makes enough money to justify it.

[Tesla_Reloaded]

34 минуты назад, Zaydin сказал:

Make proper servers already, DE. The game makes enough money to justify it.

Didn't know you work in DE's financial department to know exactly how much money the game makes to let DE rent servers all over the world.

[Miser_able]

dedicated servers have their own issues too. and would prevent a lot of players with poor connections from playing at all, even in solo

[Mazifet]

Ah yes, because buying/renting hundreds if not thousands of servers across the globe that need to provide stable and fast connections to tens of millions of people, and over 100 thousand at once, isn't a massive undertaking that would cost DE extreme amounts of money.

[Nekomian]

Gonna repost this because dedicated servers are not the cure-all people seem to think they are: 

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

To be clear, the reason that Dedicated Servers aren't a thing isn't a matter of affording the dedicated servers.

It's not being willing to take the hit that changing over to Dedicated would cause them. Because it's not just buying space on the servers. It's changing over Warframe's entire net-code.

So you'd have to stop developing Warframe, first off, because if you don't you'll be moving the goalposts for the upcoming change.

Then you'd have to start the recoding work, maybe a couple of months considering how big the game is.

Then you'd have to spend the next while doing testing and quality. If you noticed how long it took to do just basic cross-play and cross-save, and how many bugs there were with that, just imagine that, except instead of just risking a bit of progress on your account being lost, instead you're risking actual accounts being corrupted and unable to be restored. Or even game functions that were implemented to counter the P2P problems that would outright be a detriment to Dedicated.

And then, after you do implement it, only then could you start developing Warframe again.

That would be half a year or so more time where absolutely nothing happens in the game, with no real bug fixes, no new Warframes being released, no new Primes, pretty much nothing. The game would lose players like water through a sieve.

And Dedicated Servers aren't really a cure-all for our problems, either. We've literally years and years of evidence of the problems with Dedicated. Updates kicking players off before they've finished missions, updates causing massive queues of players on update day, servers being full, players who are juuuuuust a little too far away from a server and having permanent high ping to it...

Dedicated has just as many problems as P2P. They're just different ones.

And what would DE get for the time it took to do that?

Lost players, half a year's delay on any updates and releases, and a player base that's still not happy with them.

They can get more consistent players, and therefore more consistent revenue, by just carrying on as they do now and making updates that can help make P2P less problematic.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Go to your settings in game, check the second or third tab, decrease ping limit to 100ms.

Thank me later.

You'll be far less likely to be matchmade with people half a continent away from you. Doesn't mean you can't get the one host whose isp is a donkey on a bike, but the probabilities are lower.

 

I'm almost certain this thread was made after having a crappy host one too many times in a single day, much like any other of the sort.

[Hobie-wan]

On 2024-02-03 at 11:02 PM, Tesla_Reloaded said:

Didn't know you work in DE's financial department to know exactly how much money the game makes to let DE rent servers all over the world.

Of course the OP does. They also build big servers in their garage and personally install infrastructure all over the world in their spare time for free.

19 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

the one host whose isp is a donkey on a bike,

Hey, Charlie is the hardest working donkey in the business! He's a good boy and I'm gonna go give him a carrot right now.

[Zaydin]

The number of people conditioned to accept mediocrity is kind of sad. SMH.

[DrivaMain]

3 hours ago, Zaydin said:

The number of people conditioned to accept mediocrity is kind of sad. SMH.

"I won't waste my time reading these arguments against mine and writing a coherrent argument against them so I'll just revert to throw straw man statements. That will make me smart".

I'll summarize their statements for you OP.

Do you want

- A slowed down pacing of regular content updates due to DE's allocation of programmers to refactor Warframe's network softwafe infrastructure to allow dedicated server support. We've already experienced this with the development of Cross-X. No monthly updates for you until DE is finished.

Or..

- Keep P2P while slowly improving it as new methods and technologies arise. DE can pump out new content for you to consume every month or two. Ever since DE finished Cross-X, we are seeing the pace returning to normal.

Edited February 11 by DrivaMain

[PollexMessier]

I'd prefer the game stay peer to peer personally. It's not inferior it's just different. It has pros and cons.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, Zaydin said:

The number of people conditioned to accept mediocrity is kind of sad. SMH.

The number of people that think Dedicated Servers are even good is kind of sad. SMH.

Neither option is good, buddy. The internet is still rubbish for 95% of the world.

And try checking out the multiple, decades-worth of absolute doo-doo-water launches that games with Dedicated Servers have for their products and updates.

While Warframe's updates to the client side of things might be slow on update day, the moment I have it downloaded I can play the full thing. I'm not number 5873 in a queue of players waiting to even start.

Ye Gods... I've heard of copium sucking, but the kind where they think a one-liner calling others sad even works? That's just embarrassing.

[Tsukinoki]

9 hours ago, Zaydin said:

The number of people conditioned to accept mediocrity is kind of sad. SMH.

And what, are dedicated servers going to fix every single issue warframe faces?

Because news flash: It's not.

 

You'll still have bad connections.
You'll still have people drop out (and if it was a mission that required a key and the key holder dropped out then you'll still be kicked out)

And you'll have all sorts of new issues to deal with:
Long queues to join the game when events and updates happen, just like most other games with dedicated servers.
Depending on where you live you may now have large amounts of lag for no fault of your own, just that your connection to the server isn't good.....and you have no way around this now!
When an update  is launched you'll be kicked out of your mission immediately so that they can deploy the update, and who cares if you were one minute away from a rotation C reward?

 

And beyond that it all comes at the low, low cost of completely delaying any and all updates for at least half a year so that they can retool their entire netcode to work with dedicated servers!

 

I mean who doesn't see that list of cons and go "By god, I must have dedicated servers now, all of that is worth not having an uncommon host migration!"

[DrBorris]

Ah yes, because dedicated servers never have problems. Nope, not one.

Besides that, peer to peer has its advantages. With P2P we can indefinitely pause a solo game, play on even the most shaky internet connections, not worry about queue times or server spool ups, and sit in game doing nothing without having to be booted. It's a niche advantage, but being able to suspend Warframe on my Steam Deck and come back to it without having to go through login processes is glorious.

 

I feel like most of the issues with hosting could be alleviated with a proper rework to matchmaking. A system that judges who is actually a good host, not just the person who wins the ping test, and more in-depth options (only-host and never-host at minimum) would prevent us even getting to the point of the game needing to host migrate. Matchmaking effectively being a line where whoever is first gets the host may have the shortest time-to-mission, but I think even a 5 second queue for matchmaking where the best hosts are selected from a pool would help quite a bit.

And ffs give current gen consoles the same spawn rates as PC. I understand that a Xbone, PS4, or Switch doesn't have the processing power to run all of that AI and mission status stuff. But if my Steam Deck can handle proper spawn rates, a PS5 or Series Xbox surely can.

My main issue lately is wanting to enjoy this horde shooter and getting put on a Switch host with (what feels like) a quarter the spawns.

 

TL;DR: Dedicated servers aren't a money issue, Warframe is a better game for being P2P.

Edited February 12 by DrBorris

[Tiltskillet]

36 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

My main issue lately is wanting to enjoy this horde shooter and getting put on a Switch host with (what feels like) a quarter the spawns.

Pertinent: https://youtu.be/DAaApsFNWXg?si=h-WdfZStu8z24jin

 

[(PSN)MYKK678]

On 2024-02-04 at 4:26 AM, Zaydin said:

Make proper servers already, DE. The game makes enough money to justify it.

...... Why? Helldivers 2 just launched and uses P2P too. It only uses Servers for Save Data.

Did someone lie to you and give you the impression that P2P was outdated or inferior? Because it isn't.

[DrivaMain]

10 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Pertinent: https://youtu.be/DAaApsFNWXg?si=h-WdfZStu8z24jin

 

Payday 2 also had a similar problem where enemy behaviour is tied to FPS. You have one instance where enemies are barely responsive in low FPS scenarios and another instance where enemies have "Flash-like" response times in high FPS scenarios. They fixed this by locking the game's update rate to 60 times per second so enemy behaviour is somewhat consistent across the board regardless of host machine performance.

I suspect most players not knowing and crying about it doesn't warrant DE to consider it an urgent feature to fix.

[Aevire]

The problems with warframe’s P2P have to do with how updates scale uncapped with FPS. ifvta video was already posted in thread but the main issue is that and not that it’s P2P. It should be independent or at least capped. Different tech issue.