Netracells are frustrating

[DarkQorvex]

5 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

Normal arcanes that you can buy from a vendor shouldn't be in a high level timegated mission, period!

Precisely! this is just counter intuitive especially for a mission that should be some-what/how a variant of Archon Hunts.

[CrownOfShadows]

Yup, I had to quit playing with people. Solo is the way to do these 100%

I detest RNG. It makes even good rewards feel bad.

[PontiacJones]

At least they are quick and easy. My RNG there has been pretty bad though.

[Hexerin]

3 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

DE are never going to do that. If you make Netracells too rewarding it'll end up invalidating other sources like Archon Hunts. People have been skipping the Kahl missions for that very reason, despite having a guaranteed shard available in Chipper's wares. 

People skipped Kahl because it was a normal shard with no chance to be tauforged. It had nothing to do with "other options being more efficient" or whatever nonsense you're tripping on. With the upcoming implementation of fusing shards into tauforge, Kahl engagement will jump back up because that normal shard every week is now valuable for those fusions.

Netracells being actually worth doing (guaranteed shard, chance for tauforge) wouldn't change people's engagement with other sources, they'd just add Netracells to their engagement patterns. Archon Hunts give a guaranteed tauforge every 5th week at the latest (generally averages to the 3rd week), so would still be worth doing as well.

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Keep in mind only the player needs to be in the red area. Not the enemies they're shooting.

Incorrect. The enemy has to be in the circle, the player's location is irrelevant. You can easily see this by the giant energy trail that goes from the defeated enemy to the defense system's tower. Enemies that don't count, don't produce a trail.

Edited February 5 by Hexerin

[Kaiga]

The problem with netracells is twofold:

-A 70% chance of a worthless reward/melee arcane
-A bulk of the the enemy spawns being nowhere near the kill circle, making the mission take 3x as long as it should as 1-2 trickle in every so often.

These problems are stupid/should have been spotted in testing, but are equally easy to fix.

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I've been meaning to do some math on Tau Emerald +3 Corrosive to see if my theory they're the highest damage boost for most frames.

Correct, two regular green shards gives you +4 corrosive, which allows for old corrosive/full strips on weapons that can weight enough procs quickly enough. Think cycron, torid, nukor, or phantasma. These weapons are now self primer/strippers and are a viable contender to the AoE meta guns.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

7 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

if you can solo them, why introduce additional unreliable people to the equation?

Bingo

[Hexerin]

7 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

that's your problem right there. if you can solo them, why introduce additional unreliable people to the equation?

"Why play the multiplayer game, in multiplayer?"

I'll give you a moment to try and process how asinine your concept is, now that it's in proper phrasing.

[Xzorn]

16 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

Correct, two regular green shards gives you +4 corrosive, which allows for old corrosive/full strips on weapons that can weight enough procs quickly enough. Think cycron, torid, nukor, or phantasma. These weapons are now self primer/strippers and are a viable contender to the AoE meta guns.

 

I was actually more interested in a single Tau +3. Not fully stripping armor. It's an old endurance runner trick. Generally you didn't actually want to fully strip armor because you lost the +75% bonus damage and the double dip reduction in Armor. It actually resulted in less damage than a perfectly calibrated status rate.

It's been a bit but I think I got the math all down right.

Spoiler

Level 300 Heavy Gunner Armor 14,627.56 = 97.99%

Heat + Corrosive x 13
Armor after reduction = (1 - 50%) × [1 - (20% + 6% × Number of Corrosive stacks)]
(1 - 50%) × [1 - (20% + 6% × 13)] =
(0.5) * (1 - 0.98) = 0.01 = 1%

14,627.56 * 0.01 = 146.23

-Corrosive Double Dip-

Non-Corrosive
damage = 100 * (1 + 0)  * (300 / (300 +  146.23)
damage = 100 * 1.0 * (300 / (300 +  146.23)
damage = 100 * 1.0 * (300 / 446.23)
damage = 100 * 1.0 * 0.67229
damage = 67.23

Corrosive
damage = 100 * (1 + 0.75)  * (300 / (300 +  146.23 * (1- 0.75)))
damage = 100 * 1.75 * (300 / (300 +  146.23 * 0.25))
damage = 100 * 1.75 * (300 / 329.25)
damage = 100 * 1.75 * 0.91116
damage = 159.45

By Leaving that sliver of armor you actually deal 59% more damage. Assuming I did the new Corrosive + Heat reduction correctly.
Heat dealing +25% to fully stripped Cloned Flesh closes the gap but I was just curious.

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

3 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

"Why play the multiplayer game, in multiplayer?"

I'll give you a moment to try and process how asinine your concept is, now that it's in proper phrasing.

You have the choice to play solo.  The game literally gives you this option.  It's not an asinine concept.  

This is a weird comment ngl

[(PSN)robotwars7]

7 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

"Why play the multiplayer game, in multiplayer?"

I'll give you a moment to try and process how asinine your concept is, now that it's in proper phrasing.

Look, i know you don't like facing reality, but it's just a fact that more people, especially randoms, means more chance of things going wrong. The only surefire way to avoid it is to solo, and while i suppose you could argue it's "not how the game is INTENDED to be played, it IS still a valid way, and more efficient if you don't care much for playing with randoms.

But hey, if you want to keep batting for people who can't understand this simple concept, then you do you. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz:

You have the choice to play solo.  The game literally gives you this option.  It's not an asinine concept.  

This is a weird comment ngl

Actually, this is almost a solo game. Because most missions can be done solo. especially in a group.-
and there are newbies everywhere. Just give them a tip that they should lure enemies into the red circle. then it's alright

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz said:

You have the choice to play solo.  The game literally gives you this option.  It's not an asinine concept.  

This is a weird comment ngl

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, simple logic eludes silly billies.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

It had nothing to do with "other options being more efficient" or whatever nonsense you're tripping on.

I think you're the one who is tripping. Think about all the Credits, Endo and Focus farms from years ago that have become completely irrelevant when newer and more efficient systems were added. Same goes for Eidolon Hunts which have seen a huge drop off since Arcane Dissolution came along. (Not that I care because Eidolon hunting sucks). Players will always gravitate to the content which offers the most rewards with the least amount of effort.

[Aldain]

But seriously, despite all the cheese and workarounds for soloing them, I don't think content should be made actively more frustrating by having more people simply present.

Sure it's possible to solo it, and that's fine, but for something that is so hyped up by as a "Pre-build a team" content by making it not have matchmaking having other people be an active burden far too often (on top of the rewards being...worse than a single Archon Hunt on average) is a huge issue.

Rather than just throwing hands up in the air and soloing something, shouldn't people be asking DE to fix the root issue so people even want to casually group up in LFG (especially when the content is more a beef gate than anything else) or...anything else other than that?

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

But seriously, despite all the cheese and workarounds for soloing them, I don't think content should be made actively more frustrating by having more people simply present.

Sure it's possible to solo it, and that's fine, but for something that is so hyped up by as a "Pre-build a team" content by making it not have matchmaking having other people be an active burden far too often (on top of the rewards being...worse than a single Archon Hunt on average) is a huge issue.

Rather than just throwing hands up in the air and soloing something, shouldn't people be asking DE to fix the root issue so people even want to casually group up in LFG (especially when the content is more a beef gate than anything else) or...anything else other than that?

Agreed the game does feel more sluggish in multiplayer, let me just say (THE GAME PLAYS BETTER IN SOLO) for certain individuals wanting to die on the old the game is multiplayer only sword.

But you 100% you are right the game when multiplayer needs some work, ie pc players get nerfed by playing with console especially during survival console hosts just don’t spawn as much reactant, the peer to peer stuff really needs to be looked at.

Edited February 5 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Greysmog]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

People skipped Kahl because it was a normal shard with no chance to be tauforged. It had nothing to do with "other options being more efficient" or whatever nonsense you're tripping on. With the upcoming implementation of fusing shards into tauforge, Kahl engagement will jump back up because that normal shard every week is now valuable for those fusions.

Netracells being actually worth doing (guaranteed shard, chance for tauforge) wouldn't change people's engagement with other sources, they'd just add Netracells to their engagement patterns. Archon Hunts give a guaranteed tauforge every 5th week at the latest (generally averages to the 3rd week), so would still be worth doing as well.

Incorrect. The enemy has to be in the circle, the player's location is irrelevant. You can easily see this by the giant energy trail that goes from the defeated enemy to the defense system's tower. Enemies that don't count, don't produce a trail.

I would think Netracells would just need a much bigger radius for the lock to be lifted, or just none at all really if we're being hopeful. Maybe specific tough enemies pop up as well to speed the process up, so working with a group doesn't take as long (which should include a kill reduction in groups in general but whatever). 

I'm honestly just surprised Netracells don't give you a token of sorts, or a separate resource, you can use to buy the items you want. Regular Shards would be semi cheap, Tau would be limited and expensive so you can't just buy a ton at once, you might not even need limitations on purchases since Netracells are already limited to 5 a day.

I'm personally not interested in shards, I'm more interested in the Arcanes and Adapters and I hardly ever get them. If you're going to limit Netracells in this way, then give us something to make it worth our time.

 

[Hexerin]

4 minutes ago, Greysmog said:

I'm personally not interested in shards, I'm more interested in the Arcanes and Adapters and I hardly ever get them. If you're going to limit Netracells in this way, then give us something to make it worth our time.

I'm the opposite. If I don't get a shard from a run, then that run is literally wasted. I have zero interest in the arcanes (and the adapter, of course). Even if I did, I can just buy them all from Bird, so they'd still make the run wasted regardless.

[Greysmog]

5 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

I'm the opposite. If I don't get a shard from a run, then that run is literally wasted. I have zero interest in the arcanes (and the adapter, of course). Even if I did, I can just buy them all from Bird, so they'd still make the run wasted regardless.

The basic Arcanes I can understand, I'm more referring to the highest grade Arcanes that only drop from Netracells with drop rates so bad that DE is adding a new mode just for them haha.

Adapters I want because they're 50,000. EACH. It's Grandmothers Captura all over again. Like jesus christ I'm limited to 1-2 a day while I can farm Steel Path for an hour and get 4 at minimum or just buy them outright from the store. There's quite a bit more melee weapons than firearms so this really doesn't make sense to me.

Edited February 5 by Greysmog

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

I'm the opposite. If I don't get a shard from a run, then that run is literally wasted. I have zero interest in the arcanes (and the adapter, of course). Even if I did, I can just buy them all from Bird, so they'd still make the run wasted regardless.

I can agree that the silver/gold arcanes are simply cluttering up the loot table since those are easily aquired from other sources. But having shards be guaranteed from Netracells as others have suggested is swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. All DE has to do is remove the bloat from the rewards and I'll have zero complaints about it.

Edited February 6 by Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[Xzorn]

Actually. @taiiat can you check my math on that a single Tau Emerald +3 Corrosive calculation?

You're one of the few people I remember from back in the day who was doing math stuff much as I did.

RIP Players Helping Players. Am I right?

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

Ive run every netracell available to me and only have one melee duplicate. Yeah drop rates and RNG are bot my friend

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Piece of cake to me. I've been lucky with pugs as I bring my speed nova with Magus Anomaly.

[Berzerkules]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Piece of cake to me. I've been lucky with pugs as I bring my speed nova with Magus Anomaly.

This is the way to pug netracells. It's like a public service announcement to randos, teach them the way of not being a pita. 

Speed nova is too much fun right now. Nautilius/cordon + xata whisper + argonak + dagger + influence. chef kiss

[Xzorn]

7 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Speed nova is too much fun right now. Nautilius/cordon + xata whisper

 

I use Xata on my Nova, Nekros and Mesa. Shame it kinda scuffs fashion but can't hate on a 1.5x bonus that deals +50% to Overguard.

I've been debating what I wana put on Protea over Dispenser. Maybe Rift Surge.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, Xzorn said:

 

I use Xata on my Nova, Nekros and Mesa. Shame it kinda scuffs fashion but can't hate on a 1.5x bonus that deals +50% to Overguard.

I've been debating what I wana put on Protea over Dispenser. Maybe Rift Surge.

If you can mass proc status Xata is a great form of crowd control. What can't shoot you can't kill you...as easily.

I really like xata on a 79% range Banshee. Since silence doesn't stagger eximus anymore so I can proc xata on them and remove the threat long enough to kill priority targets. Base range feels like a little too much but narrow minded + stretch is the sweet spot imo. It's a super fast active melee focused playstyle that I enjoy. Stagger>prime>close the distance and melee kill.

I have wisp's helminth over protea's 3 on one of my builds. Protea is one of those frames I really want to like but can't find a build that really meshes with my playstyle. I can get close but i always put her down and move on to other things. I think she could really shine with some aoe armor strip, maybe something like pillage on her 4 with precision intensify and cast every 4th ability. Sounds like too much micro managing rotations though. Maybe mass proc corrosive with 2x green shards for full strip. I'll figure something out eventually.