A love-filled rant about the Tenet Cycron

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

This is me aiming at a Level 175, Fully Armored, Steel-Path Enhanced, Untouched, Corrupted Heavy Gunner:

And this is that same Corrupted Heavy Gunner after being exposed to the Tenet Cycron for ~0.333 seconds:

Fully armor stripped, and with 41 debuff statuses applied.

For starters, here's the build:
LISSA FADEERRONI TENET CYCRON [40]

ACCURACY	100
CRITICAL CHANCE	0.2
CRITICAL MULTIPLIER	1.8x
FIRE RATE	24
MAGAZINE	40 / ∞
MULTISHOT	2.8
NOISE	ALARMING
PUNCH THROUGH	1
RECHARGE DELAY	0.5
RECHARGE RATE	40
RELOAD	1.1
RIVEN DISPOSITION	0.7
STATUS / PROJECTILE	1.36
TRIGGER	HELD
☢ RADIATION (🔥 + ⚡)	21.1
🔥 HEAT	22
🧲 MAGNETIC (❄ + ⚡)	13.2
⚠ CORROSIVE (⚡ + 🕱)	42.2
TOTAL DAMAGE	276
AVERAGE HIT	320.1
BURST DPS	7682.9
SUSTAINED DPS	5814.1

The Warframe running the test is just my experimental Mag (or "Experi-Mag" if you will...). She has on 2 Emerald Archon Shards that increase Max Corrosive Stacks to 14.

I took two screenshots. First before I started firing, and second when I saw the armor break. As you can see in the second picture my reaction time wasn't great. (The Purple Shield is nearly faded completely) But we can use the fire rate and spent magazine to make some assumptions.

 

And that brings us to the fun part: MATH

We should assume that status procs will occur like this:
{Fire Rate} * {Multishot} * {Status/Projectile} * (1 + {Secondary Encumber}) = Status(es) / Second
or
24 * 2.8 * 1.36 * (1 + 0.16) = ~106 Stats/Sec

Now to fact check that with test results. The Tenet Cycron used 4 Ammo in the test, so we should see something like:
(4 / 0.5) * 2.8 * 1.36 * 1.16 = ~35 Statuses Applied

And how much did we get? 41 Statuses. Considering this weapon expends 0.5 ammo points per shot, it's possible the 36 Magazine is displayed as an integer but processed as a decimal. On top of that, Multishot, Status Chance, and Secondary Encumber are all RNG, so there can be a wide variance from that as well.

SO, the test seems to backup the hypothesis. 106 Stats/Sec looks like a feasible number.

It should also be noted that with Mag's grouping ability and the Tenet Cycron's base Punch-Through, there can be an additional 5 to 8 enemies hit with the chaining behavior of the beam. So especially in the hands of Mag or other frames with grouping abilities, the final stats/sec could potentially reach upwards of about 848 statuses applied in a single second. That's right: "One Missippi..." and you get over 800 Procs.

Regarding Corrosive for the Armor Strip, math helps us out there as well. The formula would go something like this:
{Fire Rate} * {Multishot} * {Status/Projectile} * ({Corrosive} / ({Total Damage} / {Multishot})) * (1 + ({Secondary Encumber} / 13)) = Corrosive Stacks / Second
24 * 2.8 * 1.36 * (42.2 / (276 / 2.8)) * (1 + (0.16 / 13)) = ~40 Corrosive Stacks / Second

So the Tenet Cycron should be able to strip armor in about 1/3 of a second, and that's consistent with what I'm seeing in tests.

 

But why not the Kuva Nukor?
Don't get me wrong, I love the Kuva Nukor. But there's the Tenet Cycron has two things the Nukor lacks:

1. Infinite Ammo
2. Automatic Reload when Holstered (without additional mods)

As a "Primer" weapon, this is going to get whipped out, used briefly, then swapped out for my Melee or Primary weapon. Even with a Synth Mod helping, the Nukor needs that little extra attention to make sure you reload it when there's a lull in the fight; otherwise you'll find yourself reloading right when you need it most. It's not a big deal, but that's one less thing to worry about in a battle. Personally that's what has me sold. (I would also mention Circuit where Ammo could be a problem, but you can't choose your weapon anyway in Circuit so what's the point of comparing weapons with that criteria?)

 

How am I putting this to use?
I'm just having fun with it right now. I wanted to see if my non-Prime Mag could be built to solo Netracells, and I was looking for a good armor-strip option. I normally like using Zenurik for my Mag, but Netracells often have the Energy Drain problem which makes Abilities / Energy Generation pointless. Not having abilities meant I was using Unairu for armor strip, which is fine, but my normal Mag is my "try alternatives" frame.

So I thought I'd try out the Emerald Archon Shards option. At first I tried building my Melee to apply corrosive stacks, but that wasn't going so great. For survivability while playing solo, I like using the Sancti Magistar. It restores full health with each hit, so even with Mag I can "health tank" with a bunch of Armor (using Arcanes), Adaptation, and high Attack Speed. That works just fine even in Steel Path (not great for endless missions, but fine for Netracells and base SP missions). BUT that also means I need my damage to mainly come from the Sancti, so I'm in on critical and don't have the Mod space for Corrosive and Status. Melee was out.

And that's when I decided to try a primer! Over two years of playing and I've never even found a need for using a "Primer" weapon. Mag is just too powerful to need it it most cases. Enemies all die from whatever Primary Weapon I'm using, so I'd typically use Secondary for aesthetics and Melee for more Parkour/Sprint Speed. But no energy means no Shield Regen, and that means no reliable Shield Gate, which means I need a different survival strategy. So for Netracells I'm using my Primary for Necramechs, Melee for survivability/damage, and that leaves an open slot for Secondary to play a part. Long story short, I thought it's finally time to use a Primer, especially since now it can Armor Strip along with help Condition Overload.

 

Does it work?
Wow does it work. My simple non-Prime Mag is TEARING through the Murmur enemies. I keep the reticle about a slight tilt downward and then I just do a quick strafing run while unleashing my Tenet Cycron's fury. In the blink of an eye, every enemy I see is Armor Stripped and burdened with all 13 Debuff types. I then use my Sancti Magistar that's doing 462.4k DPS, and most enemies die from one or two normal swings. A few last until the next Tennokai swing, but that's frequent enough.

It's such a fun playstyle too! The Melee kills keep my armor up to 2,322 and in the thick of it with Adaptation that amounts to ~98.9% Damage Reduction. Shields are pretty much always gone, but with the Sancti Magistar and that much DR my health is always near full. So it's just a slug fest, but with the Tenet Cycron I don't have to use Unairu which I found to be jarring and kind of tedious. With this build I'm only swapping between the Melee and Range attack buttons; it's fast and smooth.

Every once in a while a Necramech shows up and I swap to my Primary for that. I have the freedom to go back to Zenurik, which has an ability that can dramatically slow the Necramech down for weak spot aiming. I also have a Vasca Kavat that can revive me for those times my Adaptation and Arcanes haven't spun up fully. I say it's an active playstyle because I really do feel like I'm using my full Arsenal this way. It's very satisfying to feel like every piece of equipment is brought in with a purpose.

It's also perfect for Last Gasp just because it has low attack that won't kill anyone and Armor Strip that lasts for 15.2 seconds (perfect match with Last Gasp).

 

So where do you go from here? Can you tell me about tomorrow?
I definitely I'm going to upgrade my Secondary Encumber. I should have done that a lot sooner. I'm also not trying the Galvanized mods because I just automatically assumed I wouldn't be making any kills with the Cycron itself (but why not test that?). I also think there's value in making my Emerald Shards Tauforged. That would give the Necramech a total of 10 Corrosive Stacks (thought I'm not sure how that or if that interacts with Attenuation). Looks like this build is generally a success though, so next chance I get I'll want to get another Mag Prime to add to my team. (I currently have 4, but I like their Archon Shard setups so I need a 5th one now)

Also a Riven might be great if it increased the status rate somehow or maybe carried the Corrosive elements in a single Mod.

 

Final statement: The Tenet Cycron is amazing. Recommended 100%.

[VibingCat]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

848 statuses in one second 

I doubt that, because the triggers of Secondary Encumber aren't affected by the number of enemies hit, as the chance to inflict the extra status effect is distributed among all of them.

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

25 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

I doubt that, because the triggers of Secondary Encumber aren't affected by the number of enemies hit, as the chance to inflict the extra status effect is distributed among all of them.

Good callout. I just assumed Secondary Encumber was activated per status. (Though by now it's totally my fault for trusting the in-game descriptions to be accurate; I've had plenty of experience that should have taught me how bad of an idea that is) I'll rerun the math.

So it would be something instead like:
({Fire Rate} * {Multishot} * {Status/Projectile}) * {Enemies Hit} + ({Fire Rate} * {Multishot} * {Status/Projectile} * {Secondary Encumber}) = Status(es) / Second
^{(Probably could be reduced but I'm a programmer not a mathematician; we stop once it's good enough)}
(24 * 2.8 * 1.36 * 8) + (24 * 2.8 * 1.36 * 0.16) = ~746 Stats/Sec (when hitting 8 enemies)

Though there might be restrictions here because of max stacks. The only element that's not capped is Heat in this build. Once Corrosive, Magnetic, and Radiation hit their caps (34 stacks later) does every new status end up being Heat? I imagine not, right? It's probably still distributing to those three capped status types and just refreshing their timers. So I imagine you'd end up seeing a lot less if you actually added up all the numbers. How would the math look for that? Let's see... probably something like...

>> $rad = 0.214213
>> $hea = 0.22335
>> $mag = 0.13401
>> $cor = 0.428426
>> $enc = 0.16
>> $hit = 24 * 2.8 * 1.36
>> function gun ([decimal]$ratio, [Int16]$cap) { $total = $hit * $ratio * 8; if($cap -gt -1 -and $total -gt ($cap * 8)) { $total = $cap * 8 } return $total }
>> $encs = ($hit * $enc) / 13
>> $rads = ((gun $rad 10) + $encs) -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : ((gun $rad 10) + $encs)
>> $heas = (gun $hea -1) + $encs
>> $mags = ((gun $mag 10) + $encs) -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : ((gun $mag 10) + $encs)
>> $cors = ((gun $cor 14) + $encs) -gt (14 * 8) ? (14 * 8) : ((gun $cor 14) + $encs)
>> $slsh = $encs
>> $punc = $encs -gt (5 * 8) ? (5 * 8) : $encs
>> $impa = $encs -gt (5 * 8) ? (5 * 8) : $encs
>> $cold = $encs -gt (9 * 8) ? (9 * 8) : $encs
>> $toxi = $encs
>> $elec = $encs
>> $blas = $encs -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : $encs
>> $gasc = $encs -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : $encs
>> $vira = $encs -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : $encs
>> $rads + $heas + $mags + $cors + $slsh + $punc + $impa + $cold + $toxi + $elec + $blas + $gasc + $vira
>> 446.54747175384620

Okay so not really a formula anymore I'm just punching this all into a shell. But even that is a flawed calculation. For one thing, the Tenet Cycron might end up chaining back to an enemy that already got hit by the main beam. And just multiplying the cap by 8 is too presumptuous, I know that. It's limited on each individual enemy in reality, but this is just generalizing it as a limit on 8 enemies. Finally, there's no guarantee that the beam will always chain to the same 8 enemies, so the limit might actually exceed (cap * 8) in practice. There are just so many factors.

With all that said though, I think roughly 746 status effects per second is probably the actual rate, while something closer to 447 status effects would actually exist after taking limits into account.

[VibingCat]

29 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Good callout. I just assumed Secondary Encumber was activated per status. (Though by now it's totally my fault for trusting the in-game descriptions to be accurate; I've had plenty of experience that should have taught me how bad of an idea that is) I'll rerun the math.

So it would be something instead like:
({Fire Rate} * {Multishot} * {Status/Projectile}) * {Enemies Hit} + ({Fire Rate} * {Multishot} * {Status/Projectile} * {Secondary Encumber}) = Status(es) / Second
^{(Probably could be reduced but I'm a programmer not a mathematician; we stop once it's good enough)}
(24 * 2.8 * 1.36 * 8) + (24 * 2.8 * 1.36 * 0.16) = ~746 Stats/Sec (when hitting 8 enemies)

Though there might be restrictions here because of max stacks. The only element that's not capped is Heat in this build. Once Corrosive, Magnetic, and Radiation hit their caps (34 stacks later) does every new status end up being Heat? I imagine not, right? It's probably still distributing to those three capped status types and just refreshing their timers. So I imagine you'd end up seeing a lot less if you actually added up all the numbers. How would the math look for that? Let's see... probably something like...

>> $rad = 0.214213
>> $hea = 0.22335
>> $mag = 0.13401
>> $cor = 0.428426
>> $enc = 0.16
>> $hit = 24 * 2.8 * 1.36
>> function gun ([decimal]$ratio, [Int16]$cap) { $total = $hit * $ratio * 8; if($cap -gt -1 -and $total -gt ($cap * 8)) { $total = $cap * 8 } return $total }
>> $encs = ($hit * $enc) / 13
>> $rads = ((gun $rad 10) + $encs) -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : ((gun $rad 10) + $encs)
>> $heas = (gun $hea -1) + $encs
>> $mags = ((gun $mag 10) + $encs) -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : ((gun $mag 10) + $encs)
>> $cors = ((gun $cor 14) + $encs) -gt (14 * 8) ? (14 * 8) : ((gun $cor 14) + $encs)
>> $slsh = $encs
>> $punc = $encs -gt (5 * 8) ? (5 * 8) : $encs
>> $impa = $encs -gt (5 * 8) ? (5 * 8) : $encs
>> $cold = $encs -gt (9 * 8) ? (9 * 8) : $encs
>> $toxi = $encs
>> $elec = $encs
>> $blas = $encs -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : $encs
>> $gasc = $encs -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : $encs
>> $vira = $encs -gt (10 * 8) ? (10 * 8) : $encs
>> $rads + $heas + $mags + $cors + $slsh + $punc + $impa + $cold + $toxi + $elec + $blas + $gasc + $vira
>> 446.54747175384620

Okay so not really a formula anymore I'm just punching this all into a shell. But even that is a flawed calculation. For one thing, the Tenet Cycron might end up chaining back to an enemy that already got hit by the main beam. And just multiplying the cap by 8 is too presumptuous, I know that. It's limited on each individual enemy in reality, but this is just generalizing it as a limit on 8 enemies. Finally, there's no guarantee that the beam will always chain to the same 8 enemies, so the limit might actually exceed (cap * 8) in practice. There are just so many factors.

With all that said though, I think roughly 746 status effects per second is probably the actual rate, while something closer to 447 status effects would actually exist after taking limits into account.

Ehm, there's a second mistake: Secondary Encumber cannot proc more than once per hit. That's why it is much less effective on beam weapons compared to projectile weapons such as Twin Kohmak and Kompressa.

[VibingCat]

8 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Ehm, there's a second mistake: Secondary Encumber cannot proc more than once per hit. That's why it is much less effective on beam weapons compared to projectile weapons such as Twin Kohmak and Kompressa. The reason is that multishot doesn't actually increase the number of hits per second on beam weapons.

I meant to edit my own message, not reply to it, whoops lol.

Edited March 15 by VibingCat

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

13 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Ehm, there's a second mistake: Secondary Encumber cannot proc more than once per hit. That's why it is much less effective on beam weapons compared to projectile weapons such as Twin Kohmak and Kompressa.

Wait, so does it not get affected by >100% Status Effect or Multishot?

[VibingCat]

18 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Wait, so does it not get affected by >100% Status Effect or Multishot?

It does, unless status*multishot > 1. If so, then it's treated as 1 and the chance to proc an extra status effect stays 25%. I think the limitation works like this.

It's fairly simple to prove this as correct. Look at your own screenshot, notice that the Heavy Gunner has 40 total status effects (surely much more if we include redundant status effects beyond the limit of 10 or 14, which refresh the first one - or all of them when they're from heat -, given that they can still trigger Secondary Encumber). However, you only got one slash status effect from the arcane. The relation is below 1:40, compared to the expected 1:4.

Calculating the exact chance to trigger Secondary Encumber can be difficult. Maybe you should rather find the average value based on your observations.

Edited March 15 by VibingCat

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

1 hour ago, VibingCat said:

It does, unless status*multishot > 1. If so, then it's treated as 1 and the chance to proc an extra status effect stays 25%. I think the limitation works like this.

It's fairly simple to prove this as correct. Look at your own screenshot, notice that the Heavy Gunner has 40 total status effects (surely much more if we include redundant status effects beyond the limit of 10 or 14, which refresh the first one - or all of them when they're from heat -, given that they can still trigger Secondary Encumber). However, you only got one slash status effect from the arcane. The relation is below 1:40, compared to the expected 1:4.

Calculating the exact chance to trigger Secondary Encumber can be difficult. Maybe you should rather find the average value based on your observations.

Yikes. They should call it "Secondary En-Cumbersome!" (Sorry...)

Your numbers add up though. The screenshot test used 8 shots and Secondary Encumber activated once, a 12.5% activation rate on a 16% description.

I still think it's helpful though for my build. The Sancti Magistar's Critical Chance is running at 388.5% for normal strikes, 4.1x Critical Damage, and 260 unmodded Total Damage. So every Condition Overload layer adds an additional 58,776 damage 88.5% of the time.

On top of that, a single Viral Proc doubles the damage. 3 Puncture Procs bring the Critical Chance above 400%. And Cold Procs add between 10 and 50% more Critical Damage (so 0.22 and 1.1 additional Multiplier I think). If for some reason I want to really go overkill on an enemy and max out all the stacks of all types, then the Sancti would get up to 8.5 million per normal swing. (With a 12.5% chance of 44.26 million) That's the extreme end, but I like the idea of an enemy just getting more and more vulnerable the longer I let them "bake" in the Cycron's rays.

(Though adding it all up does make me that much more annoyed with damage attenuation on the Necramech. If there's one enemy that I would shoot until it had all the stacks maxed out, it would be the Rogue Voidrig. But that doesn't even matter with attenuation!)

So I think I'll keep it on because I can't think of any other Arcane that can enhance the Melee attack so much.

But I still wish it operated as advertised...

[Fred_Avant_2019]

The Tenet Cycron has already entierly replaced my Primer Nukor. It in fact did so upon its release. The main reason why was the ammo.

My build just uses viral + rad + heat 60% mods, is base magnetic, then the rest of it is gun CO, amalgam barrel diffusion (for the fastest dodge roll possible), augur seeker and augur pact for the modset, exilus slot is hush, since I also end up playing Ivara at times, and the faster dodge roll comes in clutch, so being able to use the weapon without uncloaking helps.

Arcane's Secondary Dexterity, as you could guess.

 

With this sort of setup, the weapon can already hold its own without melee kills done. It's quickly rising up to be my most used weapon, though it hasn't passed my Nukor yet, since I'm trying my best to shuffle around my arsenal to avoid burnout. (Sadly I have no replacement to Praedos in melee, so it's rising up endlessly, the movement speed and parkour speed is TOO comfortable to use anything else)

[(NSW)Probably_Asleep]

10 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

The Tenet Cycron has already entierly replaced my Primer Nukor. It in fact did so upon its release. The main reason why was the ammo.

My build just uses viral + rad + heat 60% mods, is base magnetic, then the rest of it is gun CO, amalgam barrel diffusion (for the fastest dodge roll possible), augur seeker and augur pact for the modset, exilus slot is hush, since I also end up playing Ivara at times, and the faster dodge roll comes in clutch, so being able to use the weapon without uncloaking helps.

Arcane's Secondary Dexterity, as you could guess.

 

With this sort of setup, the weapon can already hold its own without melee kills done. It's quickly rising up to be my most used weapon, though it hasn't passed my Nukor yet, since I'm trying my best to shuffle around my arsenal to avoid burnout. (Sadly I have no replacement to Praedos in melee, so it's rising up endlessly, the movement speed and parkour speed is TOO comfortable to use anything else)

The ammo is a huge quality of life that will probably make me stay with it as well. I Nukor is the only Kuva weapon I hunted up to 60% elemental bonus, but there's just something so reassuring about knowing I'll always have a full magazine ready when I swap over.

I actually like Mirror Defense, so I'm going to keep farming up my Secondary Encumber to rank 5 over the next few days to see how much I actually like it, but Secondary Dexterity makes a lot of sense.

Praedos is a great friend for people wanting to go fast (as in, everyone who plays video games I suppose...) I wish more Melee weapons enhanced other aspects of gameplay. I'd love if something like pole-weapons let me jump higher/faster, or if dual daggers let me endlessly wall latch. (Oh! Or if whips could be used to hand suspended off ledges and pipes or something)