Corinth has superior usability to Corinth Prime

[Void2258]

I have seen many sidegrade prime variants before, but never before have I encountered a weapon that is a downgrade from the normal variant in terms of usability. Stats might be superior, but the usability issues are such that it's actually a question which variant to use. The problems are in the 2 functional changes:

• Reload - Shell vs full: the prime swaps to a standard full mag reload. This is a big step down in usability from having the shell reload on the normal, coupled with a VERY long reload time. The prime all but requires a reload speed mod. The normal requires much more frequent reloads (due to low mag), but still ends up being more responsive. Shell reload with a smaller magazine would have been better than this glacial full reload.
• Alt-Fire Grenade: The grenade is the real issue, as this can't be addressed with modding. On the normal, the grenade has a fixed distance fuse, so is only good in some cases. On paper, the prime should be better, since it could be used in more situations. However, the detonation trigger on the Prime grenade simply fails to work the majority of the time. Playing with it essentially boils down to spamming the alt-fire button trying to get a detonation, and either nothing happens at all, or you end up firing multiple grenades trying to get one to go off. Additionally, the alt-fire detonation does not work during the VERY long reload animation, meaning you can fire a grenade, cause a reload by doing so, and then be UNABLE to actually detonate the grenade you just fired due to being locked in the reload animation, meaning you both expended ammo and got nothing for it. As a side note, these factors compound if you use an acceleration exilus mod (the grenade is for all intents and purposes entirely unusable as it's impossible to detonate over anything but the longest shots), limiting the modability of the weapon. The combination of factors actually makes the grenade an active detriment to the prime. Either the detonation needs to go back to being automatic, the manual detonation needs to change (ie made sticky instead of unusable the instant it makes contact with anything, or auto detonate on contact), or just removed in favor of giving some more stats to the main fire in compensation.

In it;s current state, the grenade is unusable on the Prime, so you either take the Prime JUST for the main fire, or you use the normal in order to have a functional grenade. Without the grenade functionality, the Corinth Prime is basically a worse Boar Prime (or Strun Prime if you consider the shell reload) in terms of functionality (and lacks an incarnon too, making the comparison with the grenade even worse), meaning there is not much point to using it at all.

Edited March 15 by Void2258

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, Void2258 said:

the manual detonation needs to change (ie made sticky instead of unusable the instant it makes contact with anything, or auto detonate on contact)

That would be nice, it's annoying to see it completely dud out if you misjudged the distance / something jumped in the way at the last moment.

The rest though ... dunno, reload is easily "fixed" via passive reload Mods, Lock & Load is a great Exilus choice on (either) Corinth,
not least since, as you mention, using +Flight Speed isn't working out that great for the Airburst.

(Though it is indeed odd that the reload mechanic was changed going from regular to Prime, was there ever any statement about that?)

I also can only say that I never had instances where the Airburst detonation input failed on me, or became inaccessible upon emptying the magazine.

I ran a recent Shotgun-only Sortie with Corinth Prime, mostly spamming Airbursts all over, and it just ... worked. *shrug*

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Void2258 said:

Reload - Shell vs full: the prime swaps to a standard full mag reload. This is a big step down in usability from having the shell reload on the normal, coupled with a VERY long reload time.

Partly I think you have all the people who said they disliked sequential reload for that.   Although it bothers me it ended up with much longer total reload.  The mag is huge in comparison of course, but I'd gladly trade some of that mag for a shorter reload. 

I don't think it should be made sequential at this point.   Even though I'd prefer it, and I feel it was poor form to change it for the prime in the first place.  But changing it after four years would be another mistake.  Unless it came via an  augment with other benefits.

Holstered Reload is maybe the best workaround, FWIW.

1 hour ago, Void2258 said:

Playing with it essentially boils down to spamming the alt-fire button trying to get a detonation, and either nothing happens at all, or you end up firing multiple grenades trying to get one to go off.

It sort of comes down to a range/projectile speed problem for me.   At longer ranges it's not  a issue for me at all.  At medium ranges it's difficult with a projectile sped mod, but otherwise not.  At short ranges it's very rough.  And it seems almost impossible to do the "point at toes, EXPLODE" technique that's so notorious in this game.

The especially irksome thing being that projectile speed is pretty desirable for normal mode.

Keeping the altfire but making it autodetonate on contact would be great.  (As an aside, my theory is the only reason it doesn't do this is because it was developed before the removal of self damage.  Ironically though it was released right after that change.)

1 hour ago, Void2258 said:

Additionally, the alt-fire detonation does not work during the VERY long reload animation,

Yep, this sucks.  And if nothing else happens, this should be treated as a bug and fixed. 

[Tiltskillet]

33 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

I also can only say that I never had instances where the Airburst detonation input failed on me, or became inaccessible upon emptying the magazine.

Are you in the habit of doubletapping the button or nearly so?  There's a short gap between firing the grenade and before the reload animation starts where it can be detonated.

 

37 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Though it is indeed odd that the reload mechanic was changed going from regular to Prime, was there ever any statement about that?

I don't think so.  There was a period when they made more swerves in prime mechanics,  (See Zhuge and Panthera Prime, for example.) and my guess is DE thought it would be a popular change. 

[Void2258]

I just did a mission where I intentionally tried to use the grenades as much as possible. I fired over 50 of them for sure (hard to keep exact count, especially since trying to detonate more often then not fired another instead). In all I got less than 10 explosions in the entire mission. The grenade launcher is so useless it may as well not exist.

[Void2258]

Aside: alt-fire not working during reload is normal behavior (see the Cedo). It's a standard mechanic. However in this case it renders the grenade that triggers the reload unusable since the grenade does nothing without the alt-fire button being pressed after firing but before it hits something, but firing causes the reload to trigger and the reload is MUCH longer than flight time.

Edited March 15 by Void2258

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Void2258 said:

Aside: alt-fire not working during reload is normal behavior (see the Cedo).

I'm not sure what's normal, as some altfires do work. For instance throwable mines, Bramma, and at least some of the Incarnon transitions.

I'm sure I've noticed others that don't, though the only ones that spring to mind immediately are the spearguns.  Mainly because their post rework reload behavior irked me so much.

Whatever the standard behavior is, I think there's a legitimate case for calling it a bug or at least a splotch of unnecessary friction that shouldn't be there.

2 hours ago, Void2258 said:

I just did a mission where I intentionally tried to use the grenades as much as possible. I fired over 50 of them for sure (hard to keep exact count, especially since trying to detonate more often then not fired another instead). In all I got less than 10 explosions in the entire mission. The grenade launcher is so useless it may as well not exist.

Maybe try binding your altfire to a different button? My standard altfire is mousewheel down, and it's much harder to use than my alternate mouse 4.

Otherwise, I don't know.  I'd agree if you were calling it kludge-y and unpleasant, especially with projectile speed, but it's not unusable for me.  edit: in the Sim, and briefly in a solo mission.  If it's presenting larger problems outside those conditions, that's suggestive.

Edited March 15 by Tiltskillet

[voltocitygel]

I love the Corinth prime. I agree it would be a bad choice to change the reload now, even though I prefer the single shell reload. It’s one of the only shotguns I use (more of a bow person), and I do use galvanized acceleration on mine to make it more effective at longer ranges.

as a result, point blank to mid range I use exclusively the primary fire. Mid range and beyond will totally depend on how grouped up enemies are, or if I have stacks of galvanized acceleration going. 
 

it usually works pretty well, but I have encountered issues where I accidentally launch two grenades because my first one arced into an obstacle I didn’t account for. The long reload could be better, but I don’t mod for it. If I need more damage, I’ll swap weapons to melee or secondary instead of reloading, and reload it later, after I’ve cleared everything in sight (or range, in larger maps)

I haven’t gotten the resources to apply my strun or boar incarnons yet, so I don’t have a comparison there.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Not really though?

Reloading between every shot is kind of bad in scenarios where you face a horde of enemies, Corinth Prime deals with that issue, with a better grenade and a full reload.

Comparing Strun Prime, Boar Prime and Corinth Prime is comparing oranges to apples, the Strun Prime was always, as a matter of fact, the best Prime shotgun since it came out, considering it's the most efficient with classical viral slash meta builds with hunter's munitions, thanks to a decent IPS weighting, acceptable status chance AND crit chance. The spread is tighter too, so it's even easier to charge its incarnon form compared to boar's, although boar's incarnon form is probably only second to torid incarnon in terms of OPness. The Corinth Prime is still decent, but it's nowhere near that good, that said you can do some very nasty things with the alt fire with a corrosive status chance build with 2 +2 corrosive stacks green shards in your frame.

[Famecans]

Conrinth Prime is a weapon with bad fire rate, bad recoil and bad reload. It is possible to find functional builds on internet, but these builds do not equip mods for the problems mentioned above, so I classify this weapon as bad for hectic matches.

Note: I have already tried to increase it with a shotgun arcane in warframe and riven mod with more than 50 rerolls; I disregards the AoE damage as it is focused on single hit status and not match with shotgun  mods tath increase projectle speed; As incredible as it may seem, this is a weapon focused on critical hits and slashing damage, but based on my single target tests, the Corinth Prime performs worse than regular Tigris non-prime.

Edited March 17 by Famecans