QoL suggestion: auto-switch bane mod or maybe deprecate it with an umbra mod.

[UnstarPrime]

The need to manually switch out Bane mods is the entire point of Bane mods, though.  They give you power in exchange for being inconvenient.

[MaxTunnerX]

57 minutes ago, Raikh said:

However auto-switching them for what you need defeats their purpose as something you actively use to counter a specifc thing. They are effectively rewarding you for going through the tedium of using them, rather than being your always fit go to mod option. Ideally they shouldn't exist and modding should be more interesting in general. Any action taken towards improving modding should be an effort to make modding itself more compelling rather than polish the miserable band-aids.

There is nothing wrong about auto-switching. If the bane mods stay the same, but the game detects what enemy youre facing in a mission and uses appropriate config for it, it will be great no doubt. Its actually one dream of mine. One day game will use spy config on spy and grineer config on grineer. Until then Im going meta though.

Edited March 18 by MaxTunnerX

[PollexMessier]

6 hours ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Or dont use crappy mods like bane mods.

Bane mods where a mistake and should be deleted from the game. *Nods*

 

Honestly, agree. They should not exist. They're way too restrictive and their existence is basically DE's excuse to not look at how garbage status-only weapons are, because of a bug with faction mods that make status-only builds actually useable.

Barring the deletion of faction damage entirely tho... The faction stats should at least not exist on rivens, at all. Whoever made that decision is hands down the worst developer of the game.

[Berzerkules]

6 hours ago, quxier said:

Every mission? ahhaha. I just press Esc > Navigation > ...

I don't change/check gear to the point I can go to Netracells (which require some good enough gear) with just random gear. I was like, hmm... that slow, that's weak, that's slow, frame does something so let's do this. Plus I'm vazarin so let's heal stuffs. Hahaha.

In general I have at least 1 decent weapon like Kuva Nukor. It's far from the best but at least it does something.

 

I change gear when I want different style, mission is harder (e.g. Netracell or Riven challenge). I prefer not to change gear every time I play another mission. That's why most of my gear is self contained. My frames usually have p.flow and Energize, Rush, maybe efficiency. My Carrier p. that I don't change has looter, vacuum and ammo conversion. So on and so forth. I change single gear (e.g. frame or weapon) not whole lodout.

I cycle through about half a dozen frames a day, each of them have 6 configs with different builds and their own loadout. idk what build I was using last so i always check before I go into a mission. I generally play solo and run longer missions so spending a minute to pick the wf build I want and weapon builds that compliment the type of mission I'm running makes sense to me. Spending a minute in the arsenal is nothing compared to the hours I'll spend in the mission I'm about to play.  

Like I could take Wisp into any mission with any of my builds on her and whatever weapons i happen to have equipped and complete a mission but I'd rather not slog through a disruption or netracell missions with a loadout built for endless survival. 

[Raikh]

42 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

There is nothing wrong about auto-switching. If the bane mods stay the same, but the game detects what enemy youre facing in a mission and uses appropriate config for it, it will be great no doubt. Its actually one dream of mine. One day game will use spy config on spy and grineer config on grineer. Until then Im going meta though.

It goes against what they are meant to be. If they just automatically switched around they'd just be a glorified version of a Base Damage Mod. They are precisely as strong as they are because they introduce their S#&$ty tedium. Otherwise they might aswell have made a generic +55% Damage on a unique multiplier Mod that double dips on things through the might of Spaghetti code.

I get what you mean, since its only QoL fundamentally but rather than have another boring plain +damage auto-include mod, I'd rather have them gone entirely. They just serve no real purpose beyond trading tedium for power.

[Tiltskillet]

14 minutes ago, Raikh said:

It goes against what they are meant to be. If they just automatically switched around they'd just be a glorified version of a Base Damage Mod. They are precisely as strong as they are because they introduce their S#&$ty tedium. Otherwise they might aswell have made a generic +55% Damage on a unique multiplier Mod that double dips on things through the might of Spaghetti code.

I get what you mean, since its only QoL fundamentally but rather than have another boring plain +damage auto-include mod, I'd rather have them gone entirely. They just serve no real purpose beyond trading tedium for power.

Exactly this. 

(Except I do want universal DoT bonus mods to replace that specific function, which is the only thing I find mechanically interesting enough to miss about faction mods.)

[Voltage]

Their power is more balanced with the fact you need to own one copy for each faction. An auto-swapping version of this mod is either Roar or Damage Blessings. If that's not convenient enough, then simply join the crowd not using them. There need to be some hurdles in the modding system to encourage curated power choices that aren't just universal cheese.

[Pakaku]

Ideally you would be modding your loadout for factions anyways, swapping your elemental mods as needed, so swapping a bane mod isn't any more difficult than that.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

9 hours ago, quxier said:

Every mission? ahhaha. I just press Esc > Navigation > ...

I don't change/check gear to the point I can go to Netracells (which require some good enough gear) with just random gear. I was like, hmm... that slow, that's weak, that's slow, frame does something so let's do this. Plus I'm vazarin so let's heal stuffs. Hahaha.

In general I have at least 1 decent weapon like Kuva Nukor. It's far from the best but at least it does something.

 

I change gear when I want different style, mission is harder (e.g. Netracell or Riven challenge). I prefer not to change gear every time I play another mission. That's why most of my gear is self contained. My frames usually have p.flow and Energize, Rush, maybe efficiency. My Carrier p. that I don't change has looter, vacuum and ammo conversion. So on and so forth. I change single gear (e.g. frame or weapon) not whole lodout.

I cycle through about half a dozen frames a day, each of them have 6 configs with different builds and their own loadout. idk what build I was using last so i always check before I go into a mission. I generally play solo and run longer missions so spending a minute to pick the wf build I want and weapon builds that compliment the type of mission I'm running makes sense to me. Spending a minute in the arsenal is nothing compared to the hours I'll spend in the mission I'm about to play.  

Like I could take Wisp into any mission with any of my builds on her and whatever weapons i happen to have equipped and complete a mission but I'd rather not slog through a disruption or netracell missions with a loadout built for endless survival. 

If you are solo player then lots of things matters. I remember trying to beat Archon missions and it was lot of failures. I couldn't even survive. Now when I pick frame it's ok - I survive just fine.

And if you have slow pc (slow loading time) then checking all of those things MATTERS A LOT.

26 minutes ago, Voltage said:

There need to be some hurdles in the modding system to encourage curated power choices that aren't just universal cheese.

In my opinion there shouldn't be "hurdles in the modding system". I think I would rather have proper choices than "bigger damage for X or smaller for all" kind of choices.

2 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Ideally you would be modding your loadout for factions anyways, swapping your elemental mods as needed, so swapping a bane mod isn't any more difficult than that.

Not sure about others but I play on general groups rather than each faction (bane mods). So like some damage, viral (or corrosive for Deimos, afair), armor strip etc. If I had to swap for every faction I wouldn't have enough slots (6 maximum).

[PollexMessier]

23 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Ideally you would be modding your loadout for factions anyways, swapping your elemental mods as needed, so swapping a bane mod isn't any more difficult than that.

Ideally, for me, I wouldn't have to change my loadout every other mission. Feels like I already spend half the game in the modding menu as it is. And I'd be able to do cool stuff with well-balanced status effects without needing to worry about elemental resistances, and not have to rely on a bug to make any off-meta elemental damage remotely viable.

Also the whole idea of faction damage mods is instantly defeated by crossfire, factions that just don't have one, or straight up factionless enemies. And often times enemies that are unaffected by faction-specific mods are the biggest threats in the game (Angels, Thrax, Sentient, Archons, Acolytes, exct.). If you're building to deal with these... you're most likely not struggling against anything actually affected by faction damage with the same builds. So why bother? Why would/should I build any of my weapons around this system when it's not even always useable? It's drastically more convenient, fun, and in a lot of cases outright better, to not use these.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

In my opinion there shouldn't be "hurdles in the modding system". I think I would rather have proper choices than "bigger damage for X or smaller for all" kind of choices.

The entire point of modding a weapon is to kill something. Niche utility gimmicks are used to assist in killing something. Modding a Kuva Karak is not like modding Frost Prime where there are 50+ different potential personal considerations to be made in regards to what mission you're playing with and who you're playing with as teammates.

The modding system absolutely needs speedbumps and tradeoffs to be worthwhile to use. Faction Damage Mods function as one of many. Polarities, mod capacity, mod drain, conditional bonuses, and other mechanics are other hurdles. etc.

Edited March 19 by Voltage

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

The need to manually switch out Bane mods is the entire point of Bane mods, though.  They give you power in exchange for being inconvenient.

Which realistically isn't that inconvenient. It's a few clicks....people complaining about this can't be that optimization-happy. Are they against light switches? door handles? 

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Honestly, agree. They should not exist. They're way too restrictive and their existence is basically DE's excuse to not look at how garbage status-only weapons are, because of a bug with faction mods that make status-only builds actually useable.

Barring the deletion of faction damage entirely tho... The faction stats should at least not exist on rivens, at all. Whoever made that decision is hands down the worst developer of the game.

Status builds are usuable without faction mods. 

And faction damage on rivens is one of the best decisions. It saves you a mod slot, along with further opening your opportunities for more variety.

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

In my opinion there shouldn't be "hurdles in the modding system". I think I would rather have proper choices than "bigger damage for X or smaller for all" kind of choices.

The entire point of modding a weapon is to kill something. Niche utility gimmicks are used to assist in killing something. Modding a Kuva Karak is not like modding Frost Prime where there are 50+ different potential personal considerations to be made in regards to what mission you're playing with and who you're playing with as teammates.

The modding system absolutely needs speedbumps and tradeoffs to be worthwhile to use. Faction Damage Mods function as one of many.

Sure, pros & cons. However such methods like Bane mods are not great. You are making your weapon more powerful. That doesn't make game much more complex and intricate. It's just manual task (change Bane X for Bane Y).

When I play some game with e.g. fast but weak swords AND slow but much stronger hammers it makes difference. Do I want to take longer OR do I want to be precise.

Sadly game is so much about just stat boost. There isn't too much you can do with that kind of system.

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

5 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

The need to manually switch out Bane mods is the entire point of Bane mods, though.  They give you power in exchange for being inconvenient.

Which realistically isn't that inconvenient. It's a few clicks....people complaining about this can't be that optimization-happy. Are they against light switches? door handles? 

But are you using only 1 door handle for all your doors? No. You install whenever it's to your liking (e.g. specific door handle) and just use it, without actively thinking about it. Switching door handles is easy but we don't do it daily.

Same for mods. You don't equip your 8-10 mods every time you run mission (or let's say daily). It's just few clicks and some typing (which is super fast, you don't even need to type super fast). Yet we don't equip all of our mods. We use configs and change/switch if it's necessary (e.g. we dropped new mod).

In general, human brain tries to optimize everything. Thinking about every detail, derail you from thinking what is important (on bigger picture).

[TARINunit9]

13 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Faction mods are a final damage multiplier like roar

They functionally ARE Roar. For whatever reason Roar counts as Faction Damage instead of its own separate multiplier

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I mean, I'm not necessarily opposed, but the point of the mods (the way I interpret them at least) is generally that you need to put in more effort with them, as far as engaging with the modding system. Are you willing to specialise a little bit more with your build, to target enemy vulnerabilities and weaknesses, and be rewarded with extra effectiveness, or would you rather a more generic build with less effort, that may deliver less effectiveness/more generic effectiveness. 

I get to some they are frustrating, and annoying to have to consider. Its sort of where peoples mind goblins come to play. Like some people don't want to sacrifice that potential power, and some wish it was "automatic", some people rather not have them exist at all for a similar reason. They feel like they "have to", for the DPS, but if they simply didn't exist, then problem solved... Some people also don't like to have to engage much with modding at all... Why don't we just have two 60/60 mods... that dynamically change when we shoot enemies to do the most effectively damage, so all the elements in one? More powerful rainbow meta eh? Why can't the game just telepathically read our mind and install mods, automatically, so we can just straight to mission and not bother... Not that I am saying any of those are similar, some are more extreme than others, my point is that quite a few different people have different hang ups with modding, its a tricky sort of generally issue to design around. 

Personally, I rarely use the Bane type mods, because I don't think my builds actually need them. Even when I am facing enemies with levels in the thousands, don't really think they are needed. Occasionally I will use them, like if I know I will be doing over an hour long mission, endurance against certain enemies, and think it might make the run more comfortable with my set up. If I am planning in staying over an hour in a mission, a little extra set up before and after isn't so much an issue. I do sympathise with those who feel more compelled or urged to use them more often though, and thus get frustrated with them. 

[(PSN)rexis12]

Honestly just let me mod weapons at the mission select screen, do that and Bane Mod would probably sky rocket and people can just move the mods around just before starting a mission, instead of having to go to the Arsenal and then back to the mission select screen. 

[Hexerin]

14 hours ago, Kronxito said:

Thats okay, but you are losing big damage by not using them. Just fyi.

Which is damage that only matters when you've got enemy levels going into the thousands, something that 0.1% of the game's playerbase engages with. Faction damage multipliers are completely irrelevant to 99.9% of the game's playerbase.

Edited March 19 by Hexerin

[Enxchiol]

I don't think thats a good idea. Bane mods are extremely good and the drawback to them is that they are specific to one faction. If there was an auto-switch or universal bane feature, bane mods would just become another must-have mod on literally every build

[Aerikx]

Could just use a normal DMG mod.

I don't bother with faction mods. I don't mind doing slightly less DMG than those who use them. Enemy has 10,000hp I hit for 500k, the faction mod user hits for 700k (If status procs) *Jazz hands* 

Either way the enemy is dead. Never had a chance. Didn't know what hit it. Etc.

Personally I feel like the Incarnon system should be expanded to weapons but as legit weapons upgrades. Make what now is Serration an perma upgrade node (use endo to max it), make faction DMG a number of nodes but now players can just toggle em in the arsenal and so on and som on. 

Frees up mod slots.

[Kaiga]

Banes need to go.

It's more damage, but with the right build not significant enough to justify the swap every single mission type- and that's exactly why they should be removed. We already swap our other items, having to swap a single mod is dumb, and is ancient design from 2013

[Berzerkules]

I find it funny that the people that don't actually use faction mods are the ones wanting them removed from the game. 

I don't use hp/armor mods on my frames since shield gating is a thing so all health armor mods, arcanes etc. should be removed. I can survive w/o those things so no one should have them. 

Edited March 21 by Berzerkules

[Slayer-.]

8 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

I find it funny that the people that don't actually use faction mods are the ones wanting them removed from the game. 

I don't use hp/armor mods on my frames since shield gating is a thing so all health armor mods, arcanes etc. should be removed. I can survive w/o those things so no one should have them. 

Ahmen to that.

All I seem to be seeing lately are whiny threads wanting to change this or get rid of this blah blah, it's gotten WAY worse from when I started playing, it's increased at a faster rate IMO.

Then again I'm just a grumpy old fart that thinks people should just get on with it and stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

10 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

stop trying to reinvent the wheel

Give apple a few years.

The iwheel. It will do everything! Except roll. And if one wheel on your car breaks weeeell.. now you have to buy a new car. 

Sorry no replacement wheels.

[ShogunGunshow]

In terms of unnecessary power creep, this would definitely be up there.